Autoweek Words on IMS

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Trey T

Does anyone know how many Boxster they sold b/t 1996 and 2008? over 500,000 units?

By mid 2009 Porsche had produced 200K. I believe 160K 986's were produced before the 987 came out in 2005. By mid 2011 they were up up to 300K.... **but** since the the Boxster and Cayman are really the same car (simply a variant like a 911 Cab and a 911 hardtop Carrera) Porsche did not separate them in reporting sales -- to further underline that this is essentially one car. Calling them Boxsters and Caymans is simply Porsche marketing spin that everyone adopts for no good reason.
So in my opinion they should be considered as one car when discussing sales, again no ever separates 911 Cab from 911 Coupe when talking sales.


From a Planet9 Post.
Production 2005/2006
Boxster: 14,383 Units
Cayman: 16,297 Units

Production 2006/2007:
Boxster: 11,727 Units
Cayman: 14,985 Units

[KRAM36]

Anyone want to buy my car? 2003 S with 105k miles on it and Triptronic trans.

[southernstar]

I must say that I am in complete agreement with Perfectlap on this. Lets look at this in context: The problems themselves happened in only 8 % of cars with single-row bearings and less than 1% in cars with double-row bearings. Keep in mind that this is regardless of mileage, age and maintenance schedules - and that it seems clear that cars with frequent oil changes are much less likely to have a failure. If despite what are pretty good odds at avoiding failure on all cars (and exceptionally good on dual-row bearing IMS cars with frequent oil changes) you are still worried, then pay for an upgrade and/or or the LN 'solution, or DOF. Considering the relatively low cost at present for 986's and early 987's, for many it will be relatively cheap, but worthwhile insurance to take into consideration when you buy the car. At least this is a problem that is predictable (and most mechanical problems on cars cannot be predicted with any certainly as no stats are available from the manufacturer); it is also a problem for which there are fixes available.

Brad

[joeyclouse]

Does anyone now why the lawsuit is only for 2001-2005? I have a 2007 and had IMS failure 2 months ago. My Mechanic says in the past 2 months he has seen 3 more post 2005 boxsters come in with complete IMS failure. I'm also curious how if ever these types of repairs get reported back to Porsche so they can get included in the offical number of failures, since they aren't being repaired at the dealerships.

[rp17]

Originally Posted by joeyclouse

Does anyone now why the lawsuit is only for 2001-2005? I have a 2007 and had IMS failure 2 months ago. My Mechanic says in the past 2 months he has seen 3 more post 2005 boxsters come in with complete IMS failure. I'm also curious how if ever these types of repairs get reported back to Porsche so they can get included in the offical number of failures, since they aren't being repaired at the dealerships.

The lawsuit only targets those cars because they were the most likely to fail like stated about 8%.

Can you tell us about the symptoms of your failure? How often you changed your oil? Did you have a manual transmission? Your oil change intervals and driving habits? Did they actually split the engine case to see what was the culprit?

[joeyclouse]

Originally Posted by rp17

The lawsuit only targets those cars because they were the most likely to fail like stated about 8%.

Can you tell us about the symptoms of your failure? How often you changed your oil? Did you have a manual transmission? Your oil change intervals and driving habits? Did they actually split the engine case to see what was the culprit?

I had an automatic with around 50K miles only owned it for 1 year bought it from car max had one oil change drove it as my daily commuter car fairly aggressively. No symptoms until when I noticed when quietly listening to it while it was idling you could here a light crunching noise. At that point the I already had the faliure the shaft was damaged and metal pieces were everywhere including the oil pan. The bearings were pitted the only good thing was the bearings stayed in place.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by southernstar

I must say that I am in complete agreement with Perfectlap on this. Lets look at this in context: The problems themselves happened in only 8 % of cars with single-row bearings and less than 1% in cars with double-row bearings. Keep in mind that this is regardless of mileage, age and maintenance schedules - and that it seems clear that cars with frequent oil changes are much less likely to have a failure. If despite what are pretty good odds at avoiding failure on all cars (and exceptionally good on dual-row bearing IMS cars with frequent oil changes) you are still worried, then pay for an upgrade and/or or the LN 'solution, or DOF.
Brad

I think people today take false comfort in those 1- 8% figures. Figures that weren't vetted by a third party for unintended and intended ommissions. They can't even tell us which cars have dual or single row bearings with any certainty. More importantly, those numbers are always evolving and were done when most of the cars had not yet reached high mileage. Hence why Porsche often ranks high in reliability surveys. If most 986/996/997.1 Porsches were daily drivers, that 8% would not be 8%, as most owners do not service their cars the way the post-mortem experts advise today.

[Zedcat]

The part of the article that puzzles me is the idea that Porsche had a reputation for bullet proof engines and this case will damage it. Probably my age showing but apart from the 3.2 Carrera, their engines have not been that reliable. Head studs, valve guides, chain tensioners, exploding airboxes, carbon buildup and other issues in their history. Even the hallowed Mezger engines are not perfect (coolant hose issues). Not at all defending Porsche on the IMSB case. Just saying for owners it pays to be informed. Lots of info available for awhile now on the IMSB weakness and as noted there are some ways to address it. I still like driving these cars.

[MitchSF]

Also 928 water pumps that lasted 30k miles max, and magnesium cased 911 engines in the '70s. I had both.

[rp17]

Kram....I'll buy your car. For the right price

[KRAM36]

What would be the right price to you?

[rp17]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

What would be the right price to you?

Somewhere around Less than half you paid. I wouldn't do that to you though. Drive that Boxster like you stole it. It would break your heart to see me come over there and burn the tires all up pulling out of your drive way as I take it home. Thats how I would feel even if someone borrowed mine for a day!! .

[Nomad]

Getting closer every day to finally pulling the trigger on a Boxter purchase. Cannot say how pleased I am about the topics / readings on this blog; the education is priceless. I think Jack Raby and Pedro have done an enormous service for us all; I for one would like to thank them both.

Please understand I am not a technical type – I am only pondering the IMSB situation and fixes, and asking questions. I hope someone with a much better technical grasp of the situation can explain some things.

If Pedro (Pedrosgarage) is correct and a small amount of oil weeps (seeps?) through the original sealed bearing into the shaft, (which in turn turns acid), why can’t drain holes be drilled into the shaft? Would it weaken the structure? Would oil, which might be slung outwards from inside the shaft, cause havoc somewhere else in the engine?

Utilizing the DOF fix, the bearing has one end “uncovered” (for lack of a more technical term) in order to have pressurized oil from the engine. If the other side of this bearing stays sealed (is it?), wouldn’t the pressure from the oil system eventually force even more oil past the sealed end of the bearing and into the tube? Why is this a good thing?

Another question I am wondering about – perhaps someone who has experienced the process can supply an answer. Regarding the Flat Six Innovation / LN Engineering fix: when suspect bearings are removed from the shaft, does oil in fact come out? How does car mileage affect the quantity of oil in the shaft?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge here. As stated, I have just been pondering and how I will handle it all when I do finally buy a Box. Thanks in advance.

[KRAM36]

Concerning the DOF. Pedro said the bearing spins the oil out in a second and with the bearing moving while the DOF is working, I don't think that would be an issue. I may get corrected on this.

[riverside986]

There are a few letters to Autoweek in the September 30 issue in response to the original column. None is from a customer who has experienced engine failure. But a couple (from owners of a Cayenne and a brand-new 2014 Panamera) paint a picture of Porsche's indifference to customers, bordering on contempt. The Panamera owner describes it as a "customer-twist-in-the wind approach."

As usual, angry customers are the ones making the noise, but it doesn't bode well for any of us who might experience serious issues. As I've mentioned earlier, my 2004 S has been remarkably reliable. I have very decent dealer and independent service options here. Just hope I never need to rely upon the good will or generosity or even common sense of Porsche AG.


Gil

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by riverside986

Just hope I never need to rely upon the good will or generosity or even common sense of Porsche AG.


Gil

Why arent you just addressing your IMS? Was there any mention in the follow up to Autoweek about the many options owners have to avert this disaster well in advance of catastrophic failure?

[riverside986]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Why arent you just addressing your IMS? Was there any mention in the follow up to Autoweek about the many options owners have to avert this disaster well in advance of catastrophic failure?

Is it just the issue of the IMS? Don't think so. The followup letters to Autoweek mostly addressed unrelated problems and Porsche's response (or lack thereof).

I've owned a few other high-tech, sometimes problematic cars in the past decade. When costly problems arose, the manufacturer and dealer usually made a reasonable effort to help. One dealer even terminated an obnoxious service adviser in the process. In more than one instance, the dealer joined the manufacturer in bearing some significant share of the expense of a costly repair on a car a few months out of warranty. I don't have a lot of confidence that Porsche would offer to pick up much, if any, of the check in similar circumstances. If there are those out there ready to sing hymns of praise for this sort of support from Porsche, I will cheerfully recant my views.

My local Porsche dealer also has the franchises for several other quality imports. I have purchased 9.5 cars from their family-owned business in the past thirty-seven years. (The "0.5" was my wife's Smart coupe.) The Porsche sales manager (whom I've known since '97) recently insisted that their service director discuss with me my options on the IMS situation. Poor guy was totally defensive. Little like "Nathan Thurm," the chain-smoking, fast-talking character created by comedian Martin Short years ago. He was extremely uncomfortable explaining Porsche's position, or even acknowledging that there was a problem. And yes, the service department would agree to update the bearing but discouraged it because of the "thousands of dollars" in labor!

I don't condemn the Porsche product or reputable dealers. And I do plan to shop for an experienced local installer for the IMS bearing upgrade.