Drove a 09 Cayman S: Big mistake!
 

I think I just made a mistake. For about a year now I’ve looking over used Boxsters, probably a 2000-2004. I never really gave much thought of the difference between an S or base model. Both are way more than I have now (Civic) so I figure whatever I found would satisfy my lifelong itch. But then this last Saturday I got to drive a 2009 Cayman S (6 speed MT). I drove it on some twisty roads, and on some wide open highways. (BTW, it hits 100 mph very easy!).
So I’m wondering if an early Boxster, base or S is now going to meet my expectations? I’ve never driven any Boxster, so I don’t know what I don’t know!
I see that I can get a 2006 Cayman for about $25k here in SoCal, but then it will have the “un-replaceable” IMS bearing.
So a few scenarios are playing our in my head.

With everything thing else being equal (mileage, service record, etc), Which is better:
$35k for a 2009 Base Boxster /Cayman, or a 2007/8 Boxster/Cayman S?
Or do I stick with my original plan and get a 2000-2004 Boxster (now wanting the S!) and have money left over to sort it out?

Get the 09 base boxster, if I had known about the IMSB issues before hand that's what I would have done. Instead I ended up replacing the motor in my 02 shortly after buying it 2 years ago.

I think, besides being a generation older, you have found that a strong modern-built structure and chassis benefits enormously in more modern cars, especially non-convertibles. I've not driven a Cayman, but I can tell you that my '01 S has a loose feeling to it you would not find in a newer vehicle, and that isn't just from wear and tear. Coming from some late model vehicles into the Box, I can notice the difference, even with economy cars, how much these advancements in industry-wide technology since the 986 have affected handling, solidity and overall feel. That said, the early model cars, which are the only I've driven, are a lot of fun. Drive one and see how it compares.

I'd get the 09 ...

I bought my 2001 Boxster base two years ago well aware of the ims issue and had the IMS Guardian installed. I did not want to put out a huge amount for my first Porsche. Two years later I am thinking ahead and dreaming of the 2009 Cayman/Boxster I might get in the next couple of years.

It depends on your financial situation. If you can afford it the 2009 Boxster would be a great car without the ims but check for reliability issues anyway - Truedelta etc.
The 2009 has been around long enough to vent the owners' experiences.

Yes I would either go with the early Boxster/base/s where you don't have to split the case to replace the ims or go 2009 or newer to avoid the ims altogether. Yes it is a fun car. Earlier Boxsters I would think the driver would experience more being in touch with the car. I have not driven the later ones as I might end up buying one....

Those 09+ cars have a much bigger drop in depreciation in their near futures than the cars that have already been out of warranty for some time. This would be the worst time to upgrade to the new engine, you'll be taking the bulk of a car's second big wave of depreciation. Right now there's still a huge jump in pricing from 05-08 to 09+. That's like standing on a bubble.

Does Cayman 06 have ims issues ?

It still has an IMS bearing that can fail, same as the Boxster. Though it would appear the larger '06-08 bearings fail at a lesser rate than the earlier single row bearings, similar to the original double row bearings.

Good point! Maybe get a 2000-2004 now, and then in a few years, get the 2009 for 20K!

A boxster is rarely going to earn you money .
Forget depreciation and buy what you want .

Or , buy a car that loses money and a car that makes money .
That way balance is restored :D

All Boxster/Cayman are fun to drive and you will never get near their performance envelope on the street. Get what you like but the 09 is sublime. It will probably be my next Porsche.

For the first 100k miles...
After that, short of splitting open the engine, you are stuck with that single row bearing that wasn't intended to be a permanent part. Meanwhile the older Boxsters can have theirs replaced in a day. Or eliminated altogether like on a 09+ plus engine.

Whereabouts in SoCal are you ?

I may be wrong on this, but didn't Porsche put the direct injection, IMS-less engine in the S cars in 09 and the base starting 2010?

Clarification: not all 09 motors are the same. You want a 09.2 late production motor. If it has PDK, it has he new motor for sure...

The 987.2 Boxster and Cayman starting in MY 09 have the 9A1 motor (no IMS) the base cars have 2.9L and are not DFI. The S models have DFI.

I have asked this a couple times on this forum when I have seen it but how can one get rid of the IMS all together?

Fit a dfi engine :D

If a 09 is in your price range, buy it and say to heazy with the whole Ixx hooplah. Drove a 2011 base, and eventhough my S was faster, that car was beautiful inside and out. Even rolled smoother with the newer dammpners than my car. As long as the engine isn't blowing up, can't go wrong.

Well I should have said no bearings like an 09+ DFi engine. The bearing are the enemy within. The LNE Solution for single bearing cars uses no ball bearings, thus you never have to deal with IMS issue ever again. But the cost is higher obviously.

Got it...thanks!

I live in Ventura Co. Got to drive the Cayman in the mountains behind Thousand Oaks and Moorpark.

If there are no more cars to test drive nearby , pm me .
There is an 03 here you can try any time you want .

If you want to really make a mistake, go drive a 2014 Cayman S.


/

Or take a drive in the Flat 6/ LN "Cayman X" with a full 4.2 liters of fury, based on the 9a1 DFI power plant.
:-)

I did on the infield roadrace course in Fontana CA up to 100 mph. Was it more comfortable to ride in than my 2000 3.6 Box S ? Yes. Easier to drive? Yes. Better suspension? Yes. Feel like I was cheating with PDK & other driver aids? Yes. Would I trade 4 of my cars for it? Heck NO!

Cars in general, including Porsches, hit a depreciation drop in yr 4. Maybe because warranties are running out. The 09's will be hitting that drop this yr.

However, there was this little thing called a recession that hit in 08 and it drastically affected sales of the 09 Caymans. 08 Cayman sales were in the 20K units while 09 Cayman sales were less than 2K. With a more desirable motor and substantially fewer 09s in circulation, the laws of supply and demand take over. Chances are the 09s will hold their value better than other yrs.

PerfectLap mentions the IMSB in an 06-08 Cayman will fail at some pt. He mentions it happening after 100K mi. If you make it to or past 100K mi, is it really a design flaw? My point is a 987.1 is a reliable car. There are plenty of 06s that are now getting into the 100K mi category. The 987s with the M97 engine were not included in the Porsche settlement because they don't break IMSs at a substantial rate. Don't discount buying a 987.1 because of IMS.

Drive a 2004 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale and you'll forget all about the Cayman.

If the engine would easily survive well past 100k if not for the bearing then I would call that a design flawe. And by survive I mean an engine that could be rebuilt without having to contend with the sort of carnage you often get with IMS failures. And using a sealed bearing where oil starvation could lead to this much destruction was inherently flawed engineering. Servicing a bearing by only one means, engine splitting, when already built cars don't need this added expense, is head-scratching engineering. To me it says they didn't really investigate the cause of failures but instead chose to concentrate on raising the level of tolerance before failure.

P.s.
I agree with you entirely on peak credit crisis cars holding value, so as long as interest rates remain low. But Bernanke seems to be telling us that the saying "all good things must come to an end" is about to come true. I would be selling real soon if i dont plan to keep a soon to be out of warranty car. Which means if I'm a buyer I'm waiting until next year or at least depositing the cash from a loan now to use later when loans get harder to get for the same rates and amounts.

BUY GOLD !!! BUY GOLD !!!

:rolleyes:

The amount of guys on here with "LN" in the signatures is astonishing .
Are you really trying to say "I'm smarter than porsche , and smarter than you ... Look at me !!! " Lmao

Yet in the same sentence bemoaning the porsche they own being a mass produced "disposable car" ...

It really is ridiculous .

Porsche have allways been about "evolution not revolution" , yet many big-up there older cars at the expense of the far superior later cars .., why is that ?
Ego self pleasure ?
Listen to your mummy ... That will make you blind you know .

Porsche "problems" have been going on for years , yet overall they are great cars .
Car guys simply learn about the issues , deal with them , and move on .
No crying .
No bull .
No Internet expertise .
Just drive them and have fun ...

:ah:

Ims
 

Is it fair on the consumer, I mean the used car consumer, the guy who saves for years to buy his first Porsche, the guy who cannot bear the cost of a new engine, the guy who sees bog standard ill maintained Fords lasting well over 200,000 miles and has NO idea of the hazards when purchasing what he is told is one of the finest engineered cars made.

It is a scandal when ONE small bearing failure can totally wreck an engine, if the failure numbers in the 987 are so small Porsche should be prepared to replace all those engines, the last fix by Porsche has condemned future owners of those mid 2005-2009 cars to an extremely expensive repair when that bearing shows any signs of wear and it will.

Perhaps someone can inform me of any other manufacturer using this type of bearing within the confines of their engine. If Porsche cared about their second user customers they would never have inserted a bearing they knew would fail at ANY time and could NOT be replaced at reasonable cost.

I am UK retired, I sold my late 2005 Boxster S with 15,000 miles and the final IMS fix, It was a summer car doing about 2,000 per year, it was a ticking time bomb, If it had been an early cheap to fix 2005 car I would never have sold it.
I now have a Gen2 2.9 car with NO DFI, can`t get carbon buildup on this engine.

1234567890

Am I reading that the 987.1 and 997.1 are less desirable when compared to older cars? I thought the imsb in these cars did not self destruct at the rate of the older ones. Anyway, I am for buying the Ferrari challenge stradale or a 996TT. It's rare that I have had the pedal to the metal in my TT. In my boxster it was much much more frequent.

360CS still commands big money vs the Modena.

This article does have a point...

Could an Old Ferrari be a Better Deal than a New 911? | 6SpeedOnline.com

Funny how everybody recommends IMS-less, DFI engines yet nobody mentions about the dirty valves issue that plagues ALL DFI engines in North America. Go read on VW, Audi, BMW forums people...

Grass is greener on the other side.

As long as you don't drive it. A new 911 is a workhorse. Ferrari is show piece. with pretty poor build quality for the price if you look at some of the Ferrari forums. One guy on there who has his own lift and does all his own work (has a 996 too) posts about how sloppily the product is put together by the Ferari mechanics once you start getting under there. As far as durability, you basically have to pony up for the track versions if you want a car that can come close to a Porsche on build quality. And high mileage Ferraris are rare birds. I saw one post by a 430 owner I believe where the mechanics all came out to look a Ferrari that had ~70K miles. They'd never see such a thing.

I think about this. I never thought I'd own this car for over a decade. But it seems like a "The devil you know" more than "the grass is greener". Unless Porsche slap a flat 8 into a Boxster I'm not sure I would buy a newer Porsche on the basis of additional HP. But I did read somehwere the VW chief was driving around in a 981 Cayman with a flat 8.

Clarification?
 

That is not clarification, it's obfuscation. It they're not all the same, how are they different? How is an 09.2 late production (does 09.2=late production?) determined? Please clarify.

Midway through 2009 Porsche changed the motor design and added PDK. The revised motor has direct injection (if I'm not mistaken) and no longer has an IMS.

OP mentions an original plan of buying a $12Kish car (early 986) and the advice has worked its way up to buying a Ferrari 360CS?

Heck, why not just get a FGT?

Buy it drive it break it fix it repeat
 

3.5 years of reading on this forum ,I would tell someone to read this post. Everything I own is maintenance and they ALL have weak points