911 envy ?

[j.fro]

Ive got a 996 C4 that's my daily driver, and the 986 is my autocross/fun car. Hands down, the Box is the better sports car. And with mods and weight loss, it is much quicker. But the C4 is all-wheel drive, and the storage in the cabin is nice for travel, groceries, etc.

[coreseller]

Based in my experience, my thoughts, for what they are worth on Boxster vs. 911:

Boxster Pros:

-handles better than a 911, no doubt about it
-mid-engine
-2 trunks
-looks better with top down vs. a 911 cabriolet
-value, it's less money
-mostly the same car as a 996 series 911 from doors forward including interior


Boxster Cons:

-less horsepower (this is offset with lower weight)
-no backseat (911 backseat is useable for kids 10 and under)
-image; like it or not it will always be viewed by most as the entry level P-Car which it is. This con is mainly dependent on your insecurity level, never bothered me since I was honest with myself about the fact I bought one since I couldn't afford a 911


You also need to determine which series of 911 you would pursue if moving on from a Boxster:

Water Cooled 911's:

-the 996 series is a heckuva bargain IMO but you still have potential IMS / Water pump issues like with the 986 Boxsters
-the 997 series are much improved over the 996 series, especially the DFI '09 and up models, prices are commensurate though
-the 991 series are incredible cars, prices are stratospheric though IMO

Air Cooled 911's:

-each series has it's own inherent designed in issues (SAI, Head Stud, etc.) which would likely need to be addressed since they are now decades old
-other key wear items (mostly suspension related) would need freshening
-the older 911's are MUCH more mechanical sounding and feeling in nature than the water cooled versions
-when driving, the experience feels much more connected and involving vs. "piloting" a water cooled 911. In other words air cooled 911's are less GT in nature than water cooled versions
-currently, the air cooled 911's are becoming more desirable by many in the P-Car community, as a result their prices are rising

[Porsche Chick]

Hubby has a 2001 911 and I have a 987. They are completely different cars.

The 911 has more horsepower, but the rear end will swing out when autocrossing. I've seen it. It does feel heavier. More torque feel, slightly less responsive steering.

The 987 is more agile and responsive, but has slightly less horsepower. I'm (ONLY) a second slower in the straight aways. It feels light, which disguises it's power. Smoother, less torquey.

We have been folding our kids into 911 rear seats for years, but neither car is practical.

If you like a 911, then get one. But I think after a couple of months, you won't really feel a lot of difference, in everyday driving.

If you're autocrossing, you'll miss the Boxster. I love the slaloms, they're my favorite thing in the world. Hubby feels like he's fighting the car around every cone, because the inertia shifts from side to side. The boxster doesn't have this inertia.

[nicecar]

THANKS TO ALL I knew all this, just needed to be reminded...I knew perfect lap and boxster chic would be there for me...coreseller NAILED IT! I always say if it is a girl car than i am a girl or the girl is a butch lesbian with a big fat rear. I will go give some love to my 02 s triple black with speed humps for the most part people think its a 100,000 dollar car ! oh did i mention the 114,000 on the odometer wish they were all my mine bought it w/ 76,000

[ChrisZang]

pouring a little oil into the fire ...
You now can get relatively decent 996 for less than $15k (that's what I sold my Boxster for)
Porsche 911 ( 996 ) Coupe - 6 Speed Manual - Best Offer

[recycledsixtie]

Yep comparing the later 911 that is the water cooled one feels like a GT to me.
I prefer the old 993, better feel, better noise, coarser. However the latter does not have modern day air cond. so that is where the Boxster comes in . Good handling , affordable, decent air conditioning, a good winter driver on snow tires.

No real desire to get a 911 yet. Usually just me or the two of us in it. Can park it anywhere and don't worry about it. Best bang for the buck in a car in my life. Affordable for the young buyer especially if he/she fixes it themselves...

In the meantime I wait till Wednesday when I take the Box in for a noisy bearing noise. Perhaps curiosity will get me going to look at the accessory belt area and spray some WD40 on each component till the wacky part shuts up.....

[nicecar]

chriszang no offence but you suck now im sick all over again

[woodsman]

Porsche's are less common in Canada than the USA. Very few know the difference between a Boxster and a 911 and the perception that the Boxster is a 'woman's' car, is totally foreign to me. And when push comes to shove, only an F1 driver could pilot a car other than a Boxster, through a series of curves as fast as I can, in my S.:dance:

I sometimes think that my Boxster is too good. It covers every mistake I make and makes it too easy to go too fast ( for the street), and that's without PSM! That's why I need a GT3 for the track! MORE! MORE! MORE!

[deptotpr]

Just look at parts and repairs in comparison to 911 repairs. There is your answer. I understand your thoughts completely, as we may all have them, but do you really want to trade in your dependable, reliable Boxster in for what potentially could be $5,000.00 in repairs on week 1 for a different Carrera rear end? Be thankful your wife even allows you to own a Porsche. lol

[tomc88]

my neighbour has an 2005 Carrera 4S

yes, it's amazing, noticeably quicker.
it of course shinier and newer inside which is nice.


I really like it.

His wife refuses to sit in any of his Porsches he's had. They had a big row after he got that one

but! I am just so happy to have a porsche! ANY porsche.

I love my Boxster S 2001.

I've had it now about 3 months, and I still have a big smile

[ChrisZang]

Originally Posted by nicecar

chriszang no offence but you suck

None taken
That's what I do best

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Ian c

Contrary to popular belief, Porsche were successfull in racing decades before the idea of a revamped 356 (the 911) had even entered anyone's mind.

I read this as you saying porsche had decades of racing history prior to the 911 being even designed .....

You're correct that could have been written better on my part. Point is however that the Carrera was very late to the Porsche racing history party when it finally worked out all of its commercial compromises and became a top winner. Yet despite being so late to the show, relative to its much longer history, this one model seems to have been associated with all of its success by the average guy. I think this largely a consequence of guys who began driving in the 70's and 80's and grew up idolizing the 911.
Before I started shopping for the Boxster S I became very used to seeing 993 and 996 every weekend at my local autocross venue and had already driven virtually every 996 except the GTs. So in a way I thought of buying one as the next logical step but the only car I ever got weak kneed over was the F355 and I was already well into adulthood then. At any rate I was resolved to buy a coupe and my first Porsche wasn't going to be a Cabriolet. That made no sense. The next convertible would be that 355 . Then I watched Tiff Needell declare the Boxster the best pure sports car on 5th gear. Watching a former F1 driver have that much fun prompted me to do a search of eBay and my current 986s was sitting less than 15 mins away with barely any mileage in the exact trim an options I was wanting. After the test drive it was no contest. There was a yellow 996 close by for only $10K more. I didn't even give it a second thought.

The "entry level" Porsche title has always been amusing to me. I suppose it applies to new Porsches but most Porsche enthusiasts I have known didn't buy new. When I was shopping for the first Porsche and before the air-cooled Carreras had begun their recent surge, the want ads were littered with old Carreras, 944's,968, 928 that you could buy for less than $30k if you couldnt afford a new Bosxter. plenty of cheap Porsches to be had. And those who would think that buying a Boxster in hopes of having inexpensive maintenance and repairs would be in for the same rude awakening as someone thinking any $10k water-cooled Porsche isn't going to require a very handy DIY'er or some pretty large invoices from the dealer or Indy.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

The "entry level" Porsche title has always been amusing to me. I suppose it applies to new Porsches but most Porsche enthusiasts I have known didn't buy new.

In the Porsche model line up, since 1996, that is exactly what it is. Some posters (thankfully very few) exemplify the "short man" complex that some in the P-Car community have had since the 914, 924, etc., hence my prior comment regarding the Boxster image "This con is mainly dependent on your insecurity level".

At the end of the day, the Boxster is a VERY capable and competent sports car that is now luckily affordable to many who never would of considered nor have afforded to buy one new. I am also one of those guys.............

[patssle]

The thing is...I can afford a 911. But I rather have a Cayman or a Boxster. They can do most of what the 911 can for a ton of dollars cheaper (used or new). And I don't need a backseat in a sports car!

Then just comparing Cayman vs. Boxster - a used low-mileage Boxster in mint condition (i.e. what I bought) is half the cost of a used Cayman in similar condition. The S has 15% more HP than mine - does 15% justify $15k+ more? The non-S has less-HP. The R is a lot more than double the cost. However brand new - the Boxster and Cayman are near identical in cost...I think the Cayman is a no brainer if I'm buying brand new.

[ghostrider300]

How many companies likely snickered at the 550 Spyder before the race? It was way under powered in contrast to it's competition, I'm sure after having their derrieres handed to them with consistency they stopped laughing. Anyone I ever heard make fun of a Boxster is always someone who has no Porsche and judges them only by print. Besides all of this, the new 981 and the spyder change the game. My car has few rivals in real world driving and the few it has are not going to dust it, superbikes can't even lose it.

[ghostrider300]

The name and styling of this is only going to drag the Boxster down a bit..

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by coreseller

In the Porsche model line up, since 1996, that [entry level] is exactly what it is.

Which Porsche, to their credit, have cleverly exploited to build up the Carrera image. First by inexplicably declaring the best engines off limits to a car that isn't even in the same category of sports car as the Carrera to create this pseudo hierarchy. They did it to the Boxster and then the Cayman. But the most ironic thing of all about an " entry level " or "stepping stone car" that their marketing people used so effectively to upsell the Carrera, is that it is born of the very insecurity you speak of: Porsche's obvious as the Sun insecurity that equipping non-Carrera cars with their finest engines would reveal that their flagship car was not the most capable track performer. Porsche have been insecure about their flagship car for 50 years. Inexplicably tall 1st gears in the Box/Cayman to deliberately make it slower than a base Carrera's launch start? You don't get anymore transparently insecure than that. No other sports car company would have fabricated this forced hierarchy. A point made all the more obvious when a Cayman won its class (against factory supported rivals) in the Rolex 24 with no support from Porsche or any real acknowledgment either.
They're insecure even when their own badge takes the checkered flag if the winning Porsche is not their commercial favorite!

P.s.
I believe base Cayennes were the cheapest Porsche you could buy in certain years since the SUV was introduced. It hasn't always been the Boxster even if the auto journalists didn't always bother to check.

[ghostrider300]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Which Porsche, to their credit, have cleverly exploited to build up the Carrera image. First by inexplicably declaring the best engines off limits to a car that isn't even in the same category of sports car to create this pseudo hierarchy. They did it to the Boxster and then the Cayman. But the most ironic thing of all about an " entry level " or "stepping stone car" that their marketing people used so effectively is that it is born of the very insecurity you speak of: Porsche's obvious as the Sun insecurity that equipping non-Carrera cars with their finest engines would reveal that their flagship car was not the most capable track performer. Porsche have been insecure about their flagship car for 50 years. No other sports car company would have fabricated this forced hierarchy. A point made all the more obvious when a Cayman won its class (against factory supported rivals) in the Rolex 24 with no support from Porsche or any real acknowledgment.
They're insecure even when their own badge takes the checkered flag.

I agree with you 100%, I know Porsche wants to protect the cash cow but look at it this way, they have more cows in the pasture, it's not like they are Kodak trying to protect film as their sole high profit product.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by ghostrider300

I agree with you 100%, I know Porsche wants to protect the cash cow but look at it this way, they have more cows in the pasture, it's not like they are Kodak trying to protect film as their sole high profit product.

The most bizzare thing about this 50 year old strategy is that a mid engine or even front engine car with the finest Porsche NA and Turbo engines could have easily coexisted with the Carrera..and might have kept them far away from even the whiff of bankruptcy. Instead they used the best engines towards an all eggs in one model basket strategy and nearly lost the company in the middle of a U.S. economic boom when Americans were buying two of everything (mid-late 1990's).
Stubborn c-blocking of their own Porsches... Whats wrong with putting the best engines in all their cars and letting the chips fall where they may on the race track? What Porsche learned since those days of putting it all behind the 911, as far as top engine allocation, is that the Porsche brand is bigger than the Carrera loyalists. They protected the Carrera for 50 years only to come to the realization that their obvious insecurities were misplaced since their greatest pay days would come from non-Carrera models (Cayenne/Pana) that the 911 purists/worshipers all dismissed.

[fatmike]

pffft. Who cares about the 911?


It stopped being a sports car about 15 years ago. Now it's a big heavy GT. I simply have no interest.


If you want to be envious of a Porsche, go drive a 981. Now that I have, my days in a 986 are numbered...



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