squirelly drive - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

t_raven · 04-18-2013, 12:40 PM

Hi All...
This may sound weird, but I thought I would ask on here if anyone has had or has the same issue I seem to have on my 01 Boxster base (tip)

Last year, before I put the car away for the winter, I took it into the dealership for a leak from the tranny...
Turns out it needed the tranny shaft seals replaced so I had this work done and also had them replace the CV boots at the same time. Also, had them put new Michelin Pilot sports plus a full alignment all the way around so the car would be good to go once the winter was over..

Well, this week, as the weather was ok, I took the car on a 6 hour trip each way and was having a great time until some idiot in a pickup truck thought he could out corner me on a sweeping lefty on the freeway... I normally wouldnt react to this type of thing, but long story short, I was hoping to see this guy lose control of his truck trying to keep up with me.... but it was me that almost lost control which totally suprised me...the car reacted to the input of throttle and the tight turn totally out of character to what I am used to..

When I am turning to the left, and apply the throttle, the car actually veers to the right slightly... when I compensate with the steering it is ok until I lift off the throttle, then the car veers back to the left... as you can imagine doing this at higher speed, and the reaction to the veering to the right causes a lift on the throttle, the car almost goes out of control... now, if I do the same with the throttle and steering while turning right, I have no problem at all and can corner no problem, but any kind of throttle input while turning to the left causes the car to veer back and forth...it is kind of scary!!
If I coast around a left turn, there is not a problem.. it only happens when under heavy to moderate throttle input...

My guess on this, as it didnt happen at all before I had the tires installed and the alignment completed is that perhaps the alignment is not correct and that the rear wheels are not parallel to each other? Does this make sense?
I have called the dealership and the response I got was that the new tires are much grippier than the old ones that this will go away as they break in. I dont buy this at all, so before I go throwing more dollars at this, I wanted to hear if anyone has had this happen to them before and what the issue was...

Please help!

BYprodriver · 04-18-2013, 01:07 PM

Mechanics generally speaking know very little about tires & believe some of the same old myths that have endured for decades & misinformed so many people. Until new tires wear off the mold release compound & excessive lubricants there to preserve the tire during storage the tire will not have traction capabilities it was designed for. This requires 100-500 miles of driving to wear off.
Potential cause #2 Hi-performace tires like your's rubber compound is designed for outside temperatures of above 40F degrees. Traction is considerably reduced below 40F.

If neither of the above applies to your situation that seems to point to the alignment settings, although anytime you are in a high speed turn with heavy throttle application & lift off the throttle quickly, you are shifting weight off the rear tires, toward the front tires. This quickly removes traction or grip from the rear tires & transfers traction to front tires.

stephen wilson · 04-18-2013, 04:17 PM

The fact that it's induced by the throttle makes me think an engine or transmission mount is loose, or failed.

Topless · 04-19-2013, 07:34 AM

Pushing the car hard at temps below 40F is a recipe for "squrrelly".

https://www.google.com/search?q=weather+ontario+canada+today&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US

fficial&client=firefox-a

particlewave · 04-19-2013, 07:46 AM

Sounds like a motor mount to me

Overdrive · 04-19-2013, 07:55 AM

If you're treating the throttle like an on/off switch in that situation, it's probably just a result of your inputs being too extreme for the situation and/or, as BYprovider mentioned, your new tires are not yet scrubbed in. Until I've put at least 500 miles on new tires I drive very carefully on them.

Anyway, getting back to your driving and how that may be the factor: if you were already engaged in the turn , the car's pretty much gripping and content, and then put your foot down, the weight transfer is going to cause the front to get light, and the nose is going to understeer, which it sounds like is what happened to you. Then if you just lift your foot off quickly instead of gradually (a reaction that makes sense to our minds but not the car), now you've suddenly thrown the weight to the front, the front tires will snag again, and now the rear is risking getting light and stepping out. Meanwhile you're probably still overcorrected for the understeer you had with more left (in this case) input than is needed, trying to force the car to turn left, so if the rear does start to slide when the car suddenly does start coming back to the left, you're already making your need for recovery worse.

To me it sounds like this is what happened in your situation, but the fact that you only seem to be experiencing it in lefts may mean that the alignment isn't quite right. Are you sure you're able to perform the same maneuvers to the same extremes going right, but have different behavior?

That last part is the only thing that throws a wrench in my thoughts about it being a matter of gradual throttle input instead of snap inputs. Has the car ever been in any collisions while you've owned it? Was it owned by someone else before you where that could have happened?

HAUSIDMT · 04-19-2013, 08:00 AM

Mine has begun doing this as well, it almost seems torque dependent. When I accellerate "with vigor" it doesn't seem to track well. But milder gear changes don't seem to do anything. The Motor mount was my next stop. I did have two local shops set the alignment twice to factory M030 specs.

The first had some dinosaur looking equipment, the latter I believe had the Hunter brand machine, whichever one was recommended by others on the forum.

t_raven · 04-19-2013, 09:57 AM

Thank you all for your replies...
I can rule out the new tire symptoms as there are over 1500 miles on these tires now.
The temperature also is not a factor in this case as the temperature that I was driving in was mid 50's up to mid 70's...

Also, I should add that this issue was not present prior to going to the dealer for the mentioned work and alignment.
The dealer confirmed that the tranny had to be partially removed to replace the seals on the one side.
I wonder if they did not reinstall the tranny properly or didnt tighten a mount?
I would hope that the dealer would notice if a mount was not functioning properly when they were working on them??

One other thing.. now that I have found this issue in a left turn only (right turns are not affected at all under similar conditions as I went both ways around a corner yesterday under full acceleration and this only happened going to the left) I noticed that if I fully accelerate in a straight line, I can make the same veering movement that I found in the left turns...when I use the tip to generate more torque on acceleration, the front end moves to the right, then moves back to the left when I let off the throttle... also I noticed that if I use the tip to lower the gear manually, the rear end "wiggles" as the gears are lowered...I think that either the tranny or motor mounts may be the issue here but am not sure...
Any other thoughts are greatly appreciated...

t_raven · 04-19-2013, 10:00 AM

Also, I have tried turning off the PSM but it makes no difference...

woodsman · 04-19-2013, 10:33 AM

I d say there s something REALLY wrong and that you need to convince the dealership of that (a test drive ) and that THEY need to solve it PROMPTLY-use the word dangerous a lot

Also, you could suggest to them that continuing to drive like this may cause even more damage $$$$$$$$$$$. If you take this problem on yourself they will let you .

PS. you could take a quick look at the rear springs and check tire pressures

Topless · 04-19-2013, 10:35 AM

Get an experienced Porsche technician in the car for a proper diagnosis. Unfortunately we are all just shooting in the dark here.

Overdrive · 04-19-2013, 11:07 AM

Topless is right, here. And seeing as the dealer had their hands on it last, best to bring it back to them and ask them wtf. Given the last thing you said about it happening even on a straight line launch, something's definitely up and it's not you. I couldn't imagine this car doing anything other than going-going-going when launching straight...that's kind of a scary thought, so I can't even imagine how you feel actually experiencing it.

Mounts and/or alignment, at this point it has to be one of the two since those are what was worked on. But either get it back to the dealer or hopefully find a good independent Porsche specialist in the area. You don't want to find yourself in a situation where you need the car to handle properly and not have it able to.

t_raven · 04-22-2013, 12:25 PM

Took the car today to a local Ford dealership that as it turns out has a porsche mechanic working there (will save me quite a bit of time as the closest Porsche dealer is 2 hours away) and the problem was found....

Apparently, when the Porsche dealer was doing the alignment, they forgot to tighten one of the adjusters on the rear tire. This allowed the rear wheel to move when it shouldn't and caused the car to wiggle around when the weight was transferred to that tire in the turns.

It just goes to show you that even the high priced mechanics can miss something!!
Luckily this issue didn't cause an accident or any damage to the car!!

Thanks for the replies

woodsman · 04-23-2013, 11:31 AM

alright, easy fix! I'd send the Porsche service manager the bill ,even if to only illustrate that their was a problem. If we don't report issues like these than patterns of behavior may go unnoticed...and worse!

Dr.Strangepork · 04-23-2013, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t_raven

Apparently, when the Porsche dealer was doing the alignment, they forgot to tighten one of the adjusters on the rear tire. This allowed the rear wheel to move when it shouldn't and caused the car to wiggle around when the weight was transferred to that tire in the turns.

Holy crap

AKnowles · 04-23-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodsman

alright, easy fix! I'd send the Porsche service manager the bill ,even if to only illustrate that their was a problem. If we don't report issues like these than patterns of behavior may go unnoticed...and worse!

+1 on this and I might even go further than that and send a copy to Porsche directly.

Overdrive · 04-23-2013, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKnowles

+1 on this and I might even go further than that and send a copy to Porsche directly.

I'll +1 that +1 (+2?

)

Glad nothing bad ended up happening from this. It would have been a nightmare trying to prove that that was the cause. It probably wouldn't have even been found to begin with if it hadn't been known before any accidents.

Definitely no harm in pointing this out to both the service manager at the dealer and Porsche in N. America. Stuff like this is a bit too critical to somehow forget to tighten down, especially to the tune of $140+/hr for what's supposed to be specialized labor.

t_raven · 04-24-2013, 10:44 AM

I plan on stopping at the Porsche dealer and talking about this.
The Ford dealer gave me a printout showing the before and after alignment and not only did the Porsche guys not tighten the right rear wheel adjuster, they had the front toe in settings wrong too.

Paid Porsche $350.00 for the alignment and Ford only charged $99.00 with a printout showing the settings for the car.
It helps that the Ford dealership owner races cars too so his shop is equipped with the latest and greatest equipment, but when you are paying $140.00 per hour for Porsche service you expect a certain quality of service!!
Glad I have found a local Porsche mechanic at the Ford dealership.. will save me a lot of time and money in the future!!

Thanks again for the replies... I appreciate the help.....

Overdrive · 04-25-2013, 07:39 AM

Keep us posted on what they have to say when you bring that up. I'm curious to know what they think about their quality of work.

t_raven · 04-29-2013, 10:40 AM

So I went to the Porsche dealer on Friday, and the service manager couldn't believe that his mechanic would "forget" to tighten up the rear wheel.. He stated that it must have come loose after I left.
They took the car in and checked that it was tight and that was it...
No offer of compensation..nothing!!!
I would have liked for them to reimburse me the cost of the second alignment, but they continued to say that it is not possible that they were responsible as they use a torque wrench to tighten everything so it had to have left the dealership fine...
They have seen the last of my business..I wont be returning to them....

A quick question not related to this... does anyone know where I can buy the transmission filling tool for a tiptronic? I want to change the tranny fluid and I need the tool to fill properly. The ford dealer doesn't have the tool so cant do the work for me and now I dont want to take it back to the dealer...thanks..