Single row or double row?

[linklaw]

The other day, curiosity got the best of me and I crawled under my 2001 BoxsterS and wrote down the engine serial number. My engine number is M96.2167103372. According to the lists of engine numbers I have seen published in the Pelican book and elsewhere which show the change points for double to single row, my engine should have a double row IMSB. My question is whether anyone has kept track of engine numbers of cars with the single row bearing to see what the earliest serial number for the single row bearing would be? I know the only way to be certain is to pull the transmission and have a look, but I wondered if anyone has seen a single row bearing in an engine with a serial number as low as mine? Is roughly 8,000 engines away from the published change point enough to be sure I have the double row? John

[Nimbus117]

Porsche released the list of affected VIN's so check against this also:

6. Which Porsche vehicles are included?
The following Porsche Boxster and 911 vehicles that experienced or will experience IMS related engine damage are included:
• Model year 2001 - 2005 Porsche Boxster vehicles manufactured with an IMS between May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005 with VINs in the following ranges:
o WP0CA29851S620508 - WP0CA29831S620619
o WP0CB29811S660405 - WP0CB29801S660492
o WP0CA29821U625959 - WP0CA29891U627644
o WP0CB29861U664289 - WP0CB29841U665473
o WP0CA29892S620061 - WP0CA29802S620238
o WP0CA29832U620061 - WP0CA29892U626107
o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319
o WP0CB29862S660062 - WP0CB29852S660344
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U602762
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U640813
o WP0CA298X3S620068 - WP0CA29853S620222
o WP0CA29813U620061 - WP0CA298X3U625002
o WP0CB29803U660063 - WP0CB29803U663240
o WP0CB29853S660068 - WP0CB298X3S660227
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U604185
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U640971
o WP0CA29854S620061 - WP0CA29824S621085
o WP0CA298X4U620061 - WP0CA29854U621568
o WP0CB29804S660061 - WP0CB29834S660555
o WP0CB29854U660061 - WP0CB29834U661824
o WP0CA298X5U710067 - WP0CA29815U711852
o WP0CB29885U730069 - WP0CB29835U731310

[986Porsche986]

It must be too early in the morning for me, I can't seem to figure out where my vin fits in here. Can someone help me out?

My 2002 S VIN= WP0CB29852U663832

Originally Posted by Nimbus117

Porsche released the list of affected VIN's so check against this also:

6. Which Porsche vehicles are included?
The following Porsche Boxster and 911 vehicles that experienced or will experience IMS related engine damage are included:
• Model year 2001 - 2005 Porsche Boxster vehicles manufactured with an IMS between May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005 with VINs in the following ranges:
o WP0CA29851S620508 - WP0CA29831S620619
o WP0CB29811S660405 - WP0CB29801S660492
o WP0CA29821U625959 - WP0CA29891U627644
o WP0CB29861U664289 - WP0CB29841U665473
o WP0CA29892S620061 - WP0CA29802S620238
o WP0CA29832U620061 - WP0CA29892U626107
o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319
o WP0CB29862S660062 - WP0CB29852S660344
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U602762
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U640813
o WP0CA298X3S620068 - WP0CA29853S620222
o WP0CA29813U620061 - WP0CA298X3U625002
o WP0CB29803U660063 - WP0CB29803U663240
o WP0CB29853S660068 - WP0CB298X3S660227
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U604185
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U640971
o WP0CA29854S620061 - WP0CA29824S621085
o WP0CA298X4U620061 - WP0CA29854U621568
o WP0CB29804S660061 - WP0CB29834S660555
o WP0CB29854U660061 - WP0CB29834U661824
o WP0CA298X5U710067 - WP0CA29815U711852
o WP0CB29885U730069 - WP0CB29835U731310

[jotoole]

Seems like that's a good thing.

[Nimbus117]

It's in the middle of this range:

o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319

[BDBoxster]

Originally Posted by 986Porsche986

It must be too early in the morning for me, I can't seem to figure out where my vin fits in here. Can someone help me out?

My 2002 S VIN= WP0CB29852U663832

WOW REALLY?????:ah:

[986Porsche986]

Originally Posted by BDBoxster

WOW REALLY?????:ah:

YEAH! WOW REALLY!!!!!!!

Sheeessshhhh......... So sorry for my original post, I hope I didn't upset your personal life too much!

If I would have known that YOU would have had such pitiful surprise, I would have been more clear "just for you"
and put into details, that I was up early and I had not yet put in my contact lenses and was having a hard time seeing my screen. WTF?

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by 986Porsche986

It must be too early in the morning for me, I can't seem to figure out where my vin fits in here. Can someone help me out?

My 2002 S VIN= WP0CB29852U663832

It's morning. Still workin' on my first cup of joe. And I do appreciate your confusion...

Once again, Porsche has made things more confusing than is necessary, IMHO anyway. For starters, WHY do they have some of the ranges in ascending numerical order and some in descending order?

Secondly, they have some ranges that are, to varying degrees, duplicates, ie that seem to be overlapping. What's the logic in that?

I sort of wonder if they're just being recalcitrant (ie difficult) in their responses to requests for discovery at trial maybe?? Whatever...

In any case, mine ('01 S) has a VIN that begins with: WPO CB29841

I would seem to be triple-whammied, since I would appear to fall in ALL 3 of these ranges...

o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319
o WP0CB29854U660061 - WP0CB29834U661824
o WP0CB29885U730069 - WP0CB29835U731310

[copsahl]

Originally Posted by Frodo

In any case, mine ('01 S) has a VIN that begins with: WPO CB29841

I would seem to be triple-whammied, since I would appear to fall in ALL 3 of these ranges...

o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319
o WP0CB29854U660061 - WP0CB29834U661824
o WP0CB29885U730069 - WP0CB29835U731310

The Porsche supplied VIN data is sorted by model year with 01 on the top and 05 on the bottom. The three ranges you questioned are for 02, 04 and 05 models respectively.

[JOC IN IL]

Originally Posted by Nimbus117

Porsche released the list of affected VIN's so check against this also:

6. Which Porsche vehicles are included?
The following Porsche Boxster and 911 vehicles that experienced or will experience IMS related engine damage are included:
• Model year 2001 - 2005 Porsche Boxster vehicles manufactured with an IMS between May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005 with VINs in the following ranges:
o WP0CA29851S620508 - WP0CA29831S620619
o WP0CB29811S660405 - WP0CB29801S660492
o WP0CA29821U625959 - WP0CA29891U627644
o WP0CB29861U664289 - WP0CB29841U665473
o WP0CA29892S620061 - WP0CA29802S620238
o WP0CA29832U620061 - WP0CA29892U626107
o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319
o WP0CB29862S660062 - WP0CB29852S660344
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U602762
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U640813
o WP0CA298X3S620068 - WP0CA29853S620222
o WP0CA29813U620061 - WP0CA298X3U625002
o WP0CB29803U660063 - WP0CB29803U663240
o WP0CB29853S660068 - WP0CB298X3S660227
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U604185
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U640971
o WP0CA29854S620061 - WP0CA29824S621085
o WP0CA298X4U620061 - WP0CA29854U621568
o WP0CB29804S660061 - WP0CB29834S660555
o WP0CB29854U660061 - WP0CB29834U661824
o WP0CA298X5U710067 - WP0CA29815U711852
o WP0CB29885U730069 - WP0CB29835U731310

My VIN. number on my 03 Boxster is WP0CA29863U620735. Can some confrim for me my car is not affected by the IMS problem?

<<< Never mind looks like i jumped the gun i'm affected by IMS issue WP0CA29821U625959 - WP0CA29891U627644

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by JOC IN IL

My VIN. number on my 03 Boxster is WP0CA29863U620735. Can some confrim for me my car is not affected by the IMS problem?

<<< Never mind looks like i jumped the gun i'm affected by IMS issue WP0CA29821U625959 - WP0CA29891U627644

In order of importance:

#1 Porsche never associated VIN numbers with engine numbers, so VIN numbers are useless in determining which style IMS is in a car, period. Assuming the car has its original engine, 1997 thru 1999 cars were all dual rows; 2000 and 2001 cars can go either way, but under NO circumstances will the VIN or build date tell you anything useful, you need to pull the car apart and look to find out if it is a single of dual row. THERE IS NO OTHER PROVEN WAY. Cars built from 2002 thru 2004 are ALL single row engines. 2005 is another crap shoot year, some of the cars are single row serviceable IMS bearings, others are the over sized non serviceable IMS bearing. Again, YOU HAVE TO PULL THE CAR APART TO FIND OUT WHICH ONE IT IS. VIN numbers, build dates, or phases of the moon won't help you, it has to come apart, period. 2006 thru 2008 engines are all non serviceable IMS bearings.


#2 Your 2003 car, if it has its original engine, has the single row bearing in it, which has the highest probability of failure (around 8-10%).

#3 All engines with IMS bearings in them have some level of potential for the bearing to fail, the only thing that changes is the probability of failure.

[Parrot356]

Man I had hoped (yeah I know hope is not a strategy) my S had avoided the single row. Car was a May 2001 production but my VIN is square in the middle of one of the sequences above. Oh well I guess with 60K on the clock my clutch will need replacement soon anyway and I can replace it then.

[linklaw]

Looks like I have a double row bearing. Door sticker says October 2000 production date and the serial number is outside the range of serial numbers listed above.

[Steve Tinker]

Originally Posted by linklaw

Looks like I have a double row bearing. Door sticker says October 2000 production date and the serial number is outside the range of serial numbers listed above.

John...
Looks like its a crap shoot whatever bearing / engine is installed in the late 2000 / early 2001 cars. My 2001 S was built in Feb with engine #M96.21 67107779. Its fitted with a dual row bearing and when I replaced it in 2010 with 45,000 miles on the clock the bearing was in excellent condition. But the oil had been changed annually and no more than 5,000 miles....

[Perfectlap]

Did you try writing to the dealer that sold the car? Not that this would go very far but I would be curious to see how they handle such a request in light of the recent settlement. Maybe they had to dust off their records and get them all updated and compturized to handle/verify the claims/payouts on 2001-2005's.

[mikefocke]

The settlement is not official or final yet, wait till the judge blesses it and both parties sign off. April?

[runjmc2]

It's a moot point. As we now know, if you have a double row it will never go bad anyway. If it is a single it's a timebomb and you are covered. End sarcasm

[southernstar]

I have a 2000 2.7 with a build date in August of 2009 and have been told that even for a car that was produced so soon after the development of the single row bearing, there is no way of knowing which bearing was used without removing the transmission and inspecting it.

The bottom line is that, even though I have installed a magnetic drain plug, change the oil every 3- 4000 miles and inspect the oil and filter for particles and debris, I still intend to replace the IMS bearing when the clutch needs replacement. Considering the much better reliability on the double row bearings, the question is whether it would be preferable to install a new factory double row bearing, rather than an aftermarket one. Does anyone know if the double row bearings are still available?

Brad

[Skootnasty]

Originally Posted by runjmc2

It's a moot point. As we now know, if you have a double row it will never go bad anyway. If it is a single it's a timebomb and you are covered. End sarcasm

Not breaking apart, and not being bad are not the same things. The dual row bearing still suffer from rubber seal failure which displaces the sealed grease. With twice as many balls there is twice as much ferous metal debris that can/will conaminate other bearing surfaces (namely cam and crank surfaces).

The improved durability against breakage/toal failure is a compromise to more metal contamination circulating through the lubrication system.

If you have an engine with a servicable bearing its worth changing as early as possible. IMO

Skoot

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Skootnasty

Not breaking apart, and not being bad are not the same things. The dual row bearing still suffer from rubber seal failure which displaces the sealed grease. With twice as many balls there is twice as much ferous metal debris that can/will conaminate other bearing surfaces (namely cam and crank surfaces).

The improved durability against breakage/toal failure is a compromise to more metal contamination circulating through the lubrication system.

If you have an engine with a servicable bearing its worth changing as early as possible. IMO

Skoot

good points. Which sort makes me wish there was an LNE no-bearing upgrade for dual rows.
But I guess the money is with the single row sales.