Single row or double row?

[Skootnasty]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

good points. Which sort makes me wish there was an LNE no-bearing upgrade for dual rows.
But I guess the money is with the single row sales.

LOL!!!! Yes the money was absolutely with the single row bearings. I just wonder where they found such a good deal on the oversized single row bearings?

I bet it fits some Czech tractor transmission that was obsolete in the 80's.

Skoot

[Ckrikos]

Not trying to scare anyone, but dual row bearings have failed too, though to a lesser extent.

[Meat Head]

Originally Posted by Ckrikos

Not trying to scare anyone, but dual row bearings have failed too, though to a lesser extent.

Lesser extent is an understatement. Less than 1% vs. 8-10%. There are many motors from many manufactures that have engine failures near 1%. And as for the argument that the more bearings mean more metal particles in your oil, not so much. If your double bearing is shearing off slivers of metal, it will totally fail at some point so I don't think this a big issue due to the less than 1% failure. With the current stats that Porsche has released, I think if you have a double bearing engine, you can rest easy! The double bearing engines are no more likely to have total engine failure than any other performance motor. I'll think about changing mine when I need a new clutch. Until then, I'm not going to give my IMS a second thought!:dance:

[darknight]

Originally Posted by Meat Head

Lesser extent is an understatement. Less than 1% vs. 8-10%.

I'm just wondering where the failure rate statistics are found? I have seen a lot of numbers thrown around, in regard to IMS failures, and they all seem like here-say.

Regardless of the actual numbers though, this is a well-documented shortcoming of these motors. And given the motor replacement cost, it almost seems like a no-brainer, to have this bearing upgraded, when it is either convenient or financially feasible, unless you are the gambling type.

[linklaw]

I understand that dual row bearings have failed. For me, knowing whether I have a dual or single row bearing helps me decide whether to replace the bearing without regard to the condition of the clutch (single row) or wait until the car needs a clutch and replace the bearing then (double row). If there is a less than one percent chance of a double row bearing failing and a 4 to 8 percent chance of a single row bearing failing, that is a significant difference to me and will help me make a decision. At this point I am leaning toward waiting until my car needs a clutch to do anything with the bearing and in the meantime will continue to check camshaft deviation with my durametric and examine the oil filter for metal.

[Penland]

I haven't seen anything about the 1997, is that a double or singlerow?

[Nimbus117]

1997's are all double.

[Penland]

Thanks for the quick reply!

[jotoole]

I should have done more research (about 5 minutes worth) before posting. Search "VIN" decoder before referring to VIN list posted regarding single vs. double row.

[Chuck W.]

My 2001 S has a build of 03/2001. BUT.... it falls is this area of single rows; WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319.

[jotoole]

Originally Posted by Chuck W.

My 2001 S has a build of 03/2001. BUT.... it falls is this area of single rows; WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319.

Maybe not..
Do a research of VIN,this site.
Look at 10th character.
Build date.
Your Box is not in that range.

[Chuck W.]

Originally Posted by jotoole

Maybe not..
Do a research of VIN,this site.
Look at 10th character.
Build date.
Your Box is not in that range.

Hummmmm...... I believe you're right. The VIN range I was looking at was for 2002s; WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319. Odd that my last six sequential numbers, 663867, are included in the 2002 VINs.

Thanks jotoole, I appreciate your help.

[amitmishra4]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but the more I read the forum the more worried I get about the much talked about IMS failure. My Vin: WP0CA29841U621069 I don't believe lies in that range. Moreover, on the passenger door sill, the manufactured date states 09/00 in Finland which I believe is September 2000. This must mean my engine was manufactured before that. Is that any assurance that I could have a double row bearing? Losing sleep over this so finally decided to put it out there. Thanks.

[Chuck W.]

Since my original posting I found a posting by Pelican. http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing.htm

Below are their findings.

The engine number of my 2001 Boxster S with a 3/2001 build date is M96 21/ 671 09227. According to a Pelican Technical Article, this engine should have a double row IMS baring.

The class action lawsuit states that single row bearings have an 8% failure rate while the double row has a 1% failure rate.


Engine Number Model Bearing Type
Up to engine # M 651 12851 Boxster 2.7L M96.22 Double Row Bearing
Up to engine # M 671 11237 Boxster S 3.2L M96.21 Double Row Bearing
Up to engine # M 661 14164 Carrera 996 3.4L Double Row Bearing
From engine # M 651 12852 Boxster 2.7L M96.22 Single Row Bearing
From engine # M 651 11238 Boxster S 3.2L M96.21 Single Row Bearing
From engine # M 661 14165 Carrera 996 3.4L Single Row Bearing
All 2005 Boxster 987 (maybe some 2006 models) Single Row Bearing
All 2005 Carrera 997 (maybe some 2006 models) Single Row Bearing
Maybe some 2006 Cayman models Single Row Bearing

[Jake Raby]

All of those numbers posted are to be taken with a grain of salt. We find discrepancies with them routinely here in the real world. In 2000 and 2001 the engine can be a single or dual row. In 2005 the engine can be an M96 single row or an M97 single row. Those years require a visual inspection to verify which bearing the engine is fired with.

The info for other, non change- over years is more accurate.

Not even the data from the class action suit is 100% correct.

[amitmishra4]

I understand that the visual inspection you mention will require pulling the clutch assembly amongst other things, right? Is there any alternate way to make this determination in the least intrusive way? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

All of those numbers posted are to be taken with a grain of salt. We find discrepancies with them routinely here in the real world. In 2000 and 2001 the engine can be a single or dual row. In 2005 the engine can be an M96 single row or an M97 single row. Those years require a visual inspection to verify which bearing the engine is fired with.

The info for other, non change- over years is more accurate.

Not even the data from the class action suit is 100% correct.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by amitmishra4

I understand that the visual inspection you mention will require pulling the clutch assembly amongst other things, right? Is there any alternate way to make this determination in the least intrusive way? Thanks.

No...........

[HJ47]

Hello,

I hope someone can HELP.

I am very interested in buying a used 2000 Boxster , but am afraid of the IMS issue. Sticker says mfd 12/99. Can I supply the vin and can someone tell me if the car has the single or dual row IMS?

Thank you !

[Chuck W.]

Originally Posted by HJ47

Hello,

I hope someone can HELP.

I am very interested in buying a used 2000 Boxster , but am afraid of the IMS issue. Sticker says mfd 12/99. Can I supply the vin and can someone tell me if the car has the single or dual row IMS?

Thank you !

Sorry... No one can help you. As mentioned in this thread, the only way to determine which IMS you have is to drop the transmission and look at the cover.

If this is an issue now to you don't buy the car. If you do, it will haunt you. Or, if you do buy it plan on spending another $2,500ish to have it updated with one of the after market units out there.

There are many of us that just don't care. I may have mine replaced when I do the clutch.

My hat is off to you... you obviously used the search feature to find this older post. Keep looking and reading and you should be thoroughly confused when finished.

Good luck.

[por356c]

Originally Posted by Chuck W.

Sorry... No one can help you. As mentioned in this thread, the only way to determine which IMS you have is to drop the transmission and look at the cover.

If this is an issue now to you don't buy the car. If you do, it will haunt you. Or, if you do buy it plan on spending another $2,500ish to have it updated with one of the after market units out there.

There are many of us that just don't care. I may have mine replaced when I do the clutch.

My hat is off to you... you obviously used the search feature to find this older post. Keep looking and reading and you should be thoroughly confused when finished.

Good luck.

Hi Chuck - in reading your many helpful posts on this forum, I have learned to respect your comments very much. You are a true enthusiast. I recall from when you were trying to sell your car, that you have a truly beautiful Boxster - actually a special Boxster in my opinion. So, its with all due respect that I am compelled to comment, about how you "don't care" about the IMS issue - a comment/theme that you have stated many times. The fact that you mention it means you care and its on your mind. You even allow for possibly repairing it when you do a clutch. My point is that I suspect that you will care a lot if your engine ceases up on you tomorrow. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But for $2500 bucks, why would you risk it? I'll never understand..... Your comments are well respected - and I hope that your "don't care" comments do not mislead someone who really should care. Unfortunately, Porsche made a mistake and has tacitly admitted as much. If we value Porsche as a world class car manufacturer, we should take their lead. Because, however reluctantly, Porsche has spent a lot of money on this IMS issue. I know: we all are entitled to our opinions. But, a good debate is fun too! With all due respect....