New car
 

I think I am going to sell my car and buy a BRZ. I cannot afford a 987, or a 981 nor do I want one. IMS, Price of service, price of aftermarket parts, 2 seats (carrera's suck so I don't care about the 4 seats) I want a GTR, cant afford that either. I want heated seats, bluetooth, a turbo again (brz would have a turbo kit waiting for it before it even got here), rear seats, no ims, no 175 dollar oil change, a newer car and the list goes on. I am a tuner at heart and really like tinkering. I have done it all to my car and am out of things I would do to her.

I will probably end up keeping the box but..............

:matchup:Let the flaming begin.

BRZ. They look nice but they aren't cheap, what you save on maintenance you will lose on depreciation just like any other car. When the turbo comes out (with full warranty unlike your aftermarket warranty-voiding option) it will be very pricey. I don' think this car will be very successful in the long run.

Personally I would get the cheaper FRS alternative if I needed a daily beater. I would be tempted to give a lightly used Lotus Elise a shot too. Until the Boxster Spyder comes down in price that might be the car to have if you like a minimal light weight sports car ....and with a Celica engine you won't need a Wolfgang Von Trips to wrench on it. And as you see from Henessy the engine mod possiblities can put you into super car performance territory. One guy on YouTube did a dual turbo and supercharger mod, crazzzy acceleration. Just don't mess up the body work on an Elise or it will cost you.

The BRZ and the FRS are the same car, I think. It's a joint project between Scion and Subaru, the BRZ just has more "standard" features, plus a higher sticker.

It's my understanding that they are underpowered cars. Here's a drag race involving both Porsche and the BRZ (FRS, FT86, whatever you want to call it)

The World's Greatest Drag Race 2! - Motor Trend

I understand the temptation; the rear seats fold down, so there's some cargo capacity. But I thought that overall it looked a little cheap: the dash was a mess, the all black interior annoyed me, and the paint finish was begging for clear coat.

Have you considered a used Lexus F Sport? Decent size, with rear seats, good trunk, and an engine roar to rival a big engine American car. It's basically the same size as a Lexus IS350, but with a bigger engine and sporty interior. They are hard to find, but I drove one and it was very close to the Boxster. I didn't care for the black interior, on the one I test drove, so I passed on it.

I do love stirring the pot here!:D

I think we own the worst valued car ever! From mid 60k to 9k? I do like the elise/exige and would love to build one. I have been in one before and I am only 5'5" and there is no room in that thing and your touching your passengers shoulders at all times. I really miss the ease of working on my car with the pop of your hood. If I could do the subaru conversion cost effectively I probably would. I do not have the fabrication skills nor the 12k+ to dump into my 1999 car. I am going to have to find a new profession and get my GTR one day. If people could get over the fact that it is Hyundai, or toyabaru or whatever, slap a set of nice wheels on it and some coilovers and the thing is sexy. People always say what would you rather pull up to somewhere in? A porsche or a hyundai? Who cares? I take my Fj cruiser cause valet is not allowed to drive my box. I always get other boxster owners who are not into them like we are and they always ask.... What year is that? Mine doesn't look like that? Or even what kind of car is that? The same could be had with many other cars as long as you have taste and mod it the way that best represents you. Customizing a car is like how you dress, eat, carry yourself. This is sexy to me - http://hyundai.freeiz.com/images/hyundai-genesis-coupe-black-rims/hyundai-genesis-coupe-black-rims-picture-5793.jpg

my 99 interior looks cheap and is cheap. Until the 987 the the 986, 996 interiors were garbage. I don't care what anyone says. My 97 eclipse gsx back in the day was much nicer.

The FRS has plenty of power.

Chris Harris at Jarama of all places.

The Toyota FT-86, GT-86, Scion FRS - CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube

The 986 interior is much like the rest of the 996/986 styling as far as options. If you don't go for the upgrades it will look bare and cheap. Just like a 996 Carrera without 18-19" wheels and without the GT3 aero package, that Carrera just ends up looking really dull.
But with those over-priced Tequipment interior options the 986/996 cars look like a sports car should: well done but not overly done. When the 987 came out it did in fact look more expensive but it also looked more like a VW/Audi road car than the minimalist approach in traditional Porsche interiors. And now the 981 interior doesn't look even remotely like a sports car interior. More like something you would see in a Cruise Ship Captain's cockpit.

I was contemplating one in the search process. I do like the way they look but was really turned off by the bicycle tires (Prius tires) as the only option. Top Gear just did a review and loved the over-steer/drifting, no rear tire traction. Go to forums for them and a lot of comparisons to the Boxster. Only similarity is Boxer engine.

Good pot stirring though

I've never heard anyone say it has plenty of power. Just because he can get it to drift on skinny tires doesn't mean anything.

Jaay, I was actually trying to steer my wife towards a Genesis coupe, they look like lots of fun, at an affordable price. I never got around to test driving one before I fell in love with the Boxster.

How about an S2000?

^ He wasn't just drifting. That's a very technical course. You're not getting around it smoothly in an
'underpowered' car -- an indictment that's meant to make the claim that its HP is insufficient for its weight and handling.
No the car is not going to do all the work for you. I'm not suggesting that you are making this claim, but that seems to be the new benchmark for power these days: "it doesn't "feel" fast". A Boxster Spyder with zero engine mods or exhaust, only suspension upgrades, doesn't feel extremely fast and isn't winning any drag races but guess what? TC Kline's example still outlapped all the modified 997 GT3s at Laguna. It's plenty powerful in the right hands. There are many 'sporty' cars today that may win a drag race but take them to the track and they aren't so brilliant.

I'm just surprised we haven't seen a car like the FRS sooner. Whoever said a Cayman had to be expensive?

Power has nothing to do with getting around a course smoothly, that's all in the chassis and driver. And yes, he was doing some mild drifting, because it makes the footage more interesting. That's not the fast way unless the car pushes so bad you have to "toss it in" for it to rotate.

My brother has an S-2000. It's cool but not my thing. I like the boxster over the s2000.

exactly.

The car was lapping Jarama quicker than the average driver who would complain about it being underpowered could come close to duplicating.
And a car with a poor chasis, suspension, steering and braking in the right hands isn't going to become magically brilliant. And yes the drifting was just thrown in as eye candy/click bait but as you could see from the real driving the car was obviously well-engineered.

Which makes me wonder exactly what basis the power critics are using to determine that the car has insufficient power?
Drag racing the Hyundai Genesis or Civic Si at the stop light? That skill set requirement is pretty limited.

Everyone will have a different opinion of sufficient. Maybe I should say "adequately" powered instead. I feel 13.8 HP/# adequate, the 12 HP/# of my 987 is "sporty", and 7.5-10 HP/# is just about right :) Power doesn't make a car inherently easier to drive "on the limit", though they are more forgiving of scrubbing off speed.

I agreee, it does seem to be a good handling car. Acceleration and cornering are two different types of fun, which don't have to be mutually exclusive, so I would preferr to have both!

agreed. but I find that many people these days are fooled by power into forgiving an inadequately engineered car. It's like going to an expensive restaurant where they cover up flawes in their food by dousing it with salt or butter. Taking away what I call "obvious power" leaves nothing to hide. I guess its a sign of the times, people seem to want a car that they can leave in 3rd gear and the engine just carries their driving the whole time. And since the only quick driving most will do is on the highway and never venture to a DE/AX, they care only about straightline speed when they give the car a thumbs up or down.

p.s.
For the price can you bring me a new, fully warrantied sports car that is better than the FRS? serious question.

If I were to do it, make the change. I would go with a good set of coilovers, a 3.8 v6 car to start, they come with brembo's, and some tasteful 19" wheels running 275's in the rear, some taste full body mods and then Hyundai Turbo Kits | Turbo Kits For Hyundai

I'd be pretty happy with all that done.

^ I bought a close relative a CPO Sonata recently. Mostly because of the 10 year warranty. After about six months I realize that every month of that warranty is going to be necessary. Or maybe econo boxes have a build quality that I was overestimating. I was similarly unimpressed with the VW, Honda, Kia, GM and Ford options in that category/price point, which are actually above econo box when I think about it, more like family sedan. The Hyundai salesman told me that the high end model (Equs?) will be sold under a new luxury spin off brand. So far I'm not impressed with their service departments. If you didn't buy the car at that particular dealer they don't want to hear about any funny sounds its suddenly making.

Not off the top of my head. The Miata may be close, I'm not sure how the Genesis handles, I haven't actually researched the subject.

I would ask for a discount on the car being that I won't be needing the warranty hahaha.

Truthfully though - I know of many hyundai's that are working well over 100k on the clock with basic maintenance. As for all makes and models, some just have issues. ****************, my boxster the first years of it's life lived at the dealership between, rms, ignition, power steering lines, the list goes on.

A lady friend of mine has it. Suspension is too hard for someone who isn't an enthusiast. Otherwise I think its a great modern day version of the Prelude, definitely a notch above Celica GT, Mistu Spyder, etc. Can't think of what the modern equivalents of those cars are today. Seems like there used to be more "sporty" cars in the past. Must be attrition via the SUV...the new chick car.

I like the prelude comparison. Only big difference is the rear wheel drive. Think, if honda would have made that thing rear wheel it could have been the base of the s-2000.

none of these cars compare to the boxster guys . I will take a 10 year old boxster anyday. The BRZ is underpowered and as a daily driver will become very annoying very quickly. The Genesis just feels like a total POS . sit in it and you will see where I am coming from. I do like the Focus ST but as my wife's daily driver. I have an EVO X very fast and capable but it is no boxster S , actually not even close !

FRS= Fun, but Really Slow. :D

True. But I am not looking to keep the thing stock for one second. It would have 3.8ltr turbo real fast! All that you said could be said for a boxster too. Boxsters are slow - power wise.

Porsches in general are slow power wise.

The standard Carrera didn't cross over 350 HP even with the indroduction of the 997. And 330 HP is hardly a huge engine for that price tag. (987 Spyder 320 HP)
The 991 series will be the first to start with 350 HP since the 911 was unveiled 50 years.

I don't understand the BRZ - it puts out 151 lbs of torque. My 2008 Mazda 3 2.3L (a $17k car) has 150 lbs of torque.

My mom has a Subaru Forester and while they are nice cars (I've looked at the Outback for myself) - they seem overpriced for what you get.

BRZ? Might as well buy a Civic.

How about an e46 M3? Fantastic chassis, great engine, huge aftermarket support, prices are a way down, fairly easy to work on, no warranty to void and probably not much more depreciation either. Better looking in and out than the other Boxster replacements mentioned (IMO of course).

For those of you bagging on the BRZ....

Go out and drive one

Hmm, I think we've seen this thread from you before...

I've had 2 2g Eclipse GSXs. If you are a fan of large expanses of squishy rubber dashboards, hard leather seats, and otherwise whale-skin patterned hard plastic, then yes, they are better than the Boxster, but I personally don't think so.

If you are going to be dissatisfied with interior quality, stay far away from a Lotus. Very cheap plastic and alot of squeaking and rattling are standard equipment. We deal with it because it's part of the car's character. Loud, hard, stiff, expensive in an accident, it takes true grit to use one daily.

Criticizing a car's power or torque output without looking at the torque curve and the vehicle weight is useless. That Lotus only makes 140 Ft-lb of torque, but it does 0-60 in the mid-4's.

This was proven to me during my last track day, when I went driving with an instructor who was passing GT3s with little effort while driving my lowly MR2.

Go for it! I love the looks and specs of this car, really need to go drive one. My first two and favorite cars prior to my Boxster were a 79 Celica GT and 84 Supra. I expect the BRZ to handle like a better modern version of those cars as it was designed to be.

JAAY

Have you actually driven BRZ or FRS? It's a drift car. I thought it would be fun, but drifting at 40 mph due to inadequate wheels, is not fun. At least not for me. But if you like it, more power to you.

Teleski; I too loved my Celicas, especially the 1990. When I heard the FRS was coming out, I spent time waiting for it, but when it came right down to it, it's just not the same animal.

Yeah, one of the first upgrades to the BRZ should be a wider wheel & tire combo.

I couldn't agree with all you more. The truth is the car actually handles pretty close to a stock base boxster. I do not want to get into the drifting scene. Info that I have dug up says that you can fit a 225-235 up front a and 10" wheel with 275's in the rear. Remember I am looking at getting a V6 Genesis not the subaru engine or the 4cyl turbo frs or genesis.

99 2.5 986
0-60 mph, sec - 6.0
Quarter mile, sec/mph - 14.5/94.6122
Lateral acceleration, - g0.94
600-ft slalom, mph - 67.7 25/29
Skidpad - .94

2013 Genesis 3.8
Quarter mile - 13.9/102mph
0-60mph - 5.2sec.
Skidpad - .94

I loved the 90-93 Celica as well! I had a few GT, GT-S and All-Trac models over the years. To this day the 90 All-Trac I had is the one and only car I regret selling. The build quality in and out was superb and the 3S-GTE engine was bullet proof as well as very tunable.

None of the Toyotas over the past decade or so are the same animal as those older cars. When the 7th gen came out in 2000 I couldn't wait to get a GT-S. When I bought it I was never more disappointed - a tin can on the outside and plastic container on the inside. I don't think I ever sold a car so fast.

That sounds it would definitely need light wheels. Heavy anchors could easily ruin that car.

The FRS was not strictly marketed or designed to be a drift car. Obviously drifting is huge in Japan and the left coast so it had to be accessible to that camp otherwise they'd be leaving sales on the table unecessarily.
But if Toyota were looking to make a budget car squarely for drifting it would have been a very different outcome. The world's 2nd biggest car make can figure that out quiet easily and sell it for a steal. The FRS was more of a driver's exercise with an engine that allows you to use all of the power all of the time vs. so many other sports cars where you only use a fraction of the available power for fear of ending up in the trees. For a race junkie that aspect has the same appeal as the Miata which is a fixture at every track day and autocross... and those drivers are typically not drifters.


It's going to be the new car for the Toyota Long Beach Celebrity crash fest. I might actually watch it this year.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ei.../ku-xlarge.jpg
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ei.../ku-xlarge.jpg

I would have mine looking like this but probably in white or any other color than black. My 986 is black and it is the third black car I've owned. It is a pain in the ass but looks insane when it is cleaned http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1361466974.jpg

I raced a BRZ today in my 986. He kept up with me from 0-30mph. In the end, I won by a few car lengths. Maybe it was an automatic.