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986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners (http://986forum.com/forums/)
-   Boxster General Discussions (http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/)
-   -   Excellence say just remove the IMS outer seal! (http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/43117-excellence-say-just-remove-ims-outer-seal.html)

tcallas 02-13-2013 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlap (Post 327385)
While you're here. :D Do you factor in engine sound at all when you determine if an oil is better or worse for the m96? Some people take comfort in a quieter engine.
Honestly, I cannot tell the difference in M96-M97 engine noise between the 0w-40 and the 5w-40 weight lubricants.

Tony Callas
Callas Rennsport

Perfectlap 02-13-2013 08:53 AM
well I guess I should have said, in your experience, is a quieter engine a better protected engine?

tcallas 02-13-2013 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlap (Post 327385)
While you're here. :D Do you factor in engine sound at all when you determine if an oil is better or worse for the m96? Some people take comfort in a quieter engine.
Great question, I would have to say yes. Actually, I will back pedal some on this one, I was thinking about warm running conditions/noise on the M96-M97 engine, but the start-up noise does seem slightly better with the 5w-40 weight lubricants. The greatest growing concern of mine right now is the M96-M97 IMS chain tensioner. If it were mine, I would replace that tensioner every 40k miles. Jake has seen catastrophic engine damage occur when the IMS chain tensioner has worn-out and left loose for too long. Listen for ratting noises on cold engine start-up, this can be indicative of a worn out IMS chain tensioner. It’s now on my list of preventive maintenance items, not to be taken lightly.

Good luck,
Tony Callas
Callas Rennsport

Perfectlap 02-13-2013 11:22 AM
sounds like replacing the tensioner should be part of the Clutch/IMS job being that the typical owner will probably hit 80K before any of this is done. Maybe toss in the water pump too for those who are still on the factory original at that stage.
All are good "mid point" corrections that will have you good to go well into 100K territory. Sounds like a lot to do for a new owner but I gather we'd have many fewer early expirations (kaput engines under 100K miles).

southernstar 02-13-2013 11:24 AM
I guess what I don't understand is the following: if the inner seal on the IMS bearing fails, allowing engine oil to contaminate the grease and cause bearing failure, how will the inner seal be strong enough to hold up to lubrication from a separate line into the housing/cover? Furthermore, are the bearings designed for, or at least the same as ones designed for lubrication by crankcase oil? I'm sure there is a simple answer and that I am showing my ignorance, but I am having trouble wrapping my alleged brain around all of this!

Brad

JFP in PA 02-13-2013 11:30 AM
When the seal fails, and oil washes out the grease, the oil remains trapped and is beaten to death by the bearing, after which it offers no cooling or lubrication; the bearing then fails. Remove the rear seal, fresh oil is nearly continuously splash fed into the bearing, providing lubrication and cooling.

One of the common features of a nearly dead IMS is oil inside the seals that smells horrifically because it has long since died.

thstone 02-13-2013 06:19 PM
Mr. Callas, thank you for taking the time to respond. Greatly appreciated. :cheers:

Jager 02-13-2013 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcallas (Post 327335)
Thstone,

I do not have my Excellence article directly in front of me for reference, but I believe I was speaking about the M97 engine with the larger diameter IMS bearing. As for the M97 engine, its IMS bearing cannot be replaced without complete dis-assembly of the engine, having said that, I feel that removing the outer seal of the IMS bearing is the best thing that one could do to temporarily lengthen its life, so AT LEAST it can get splash lubrication. We have removed the outer seal on many M97 IMS bearings, on automobiles with mileage well below 30k miles and all have had substantial engine oil contamination.

Yes, I do recommend switching to a boutique type of engine oil, instead of Mobil-1, because I feel that elevated levels of ZDDP is critical to most any engines health.

Tony Callas
Callas Rennsport
Tony,
What do you use to pull the seal off the bearing? I have replaced an IMS bearing on the M96 and understand securing the crank, cams, chains, and shaft, but what do you use to reach-in and grab the outer seal on the M97 bearing?
Thanks Much

Jake Raby 02-13-2013 07:02 PM
Quote:
in your experience, is a quieter engine a better protected engine?
No noise is a good noise. If its loud, it isn't happy. PERIOD!

JFP in PA 02-14-2013 02:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jager (Post 327465)
Tony,
What do you use to pull the seal off the bearing? I have replaced an IMS bearing on the M96 and understand securing the crank, cams, chains, and shaft, but what do you use to reach-in and grab the outer seal on the M97 bearing?
Thanks Much
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...mage_16048.jpg

shadrach74 02-14-2013 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby (Post 327469)
No noise is a good noise. If its loud, it isn't happy. PERIOD!
So none of your cars make any noise on start up?

shadrach74 02-14-2013 03:08 AM
Hi Tony, thanks for posting. Do you have any inclination as to why a more viscous oil would be quieter at start up? An if it is quieter, why would it be happier, as Jake has stated.

southernstar 02-14-2013 04:02 AM
Thanks JFP, that makes sense.

Brad

Perfectlap 02-14-2013 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcallas (Post 327405)
Great question, I would have to say yes. Actually, I will back pedal some on this one, I was thinking about warm running conditions/noise on the M96-M97 engine, but the start-up noise does seem slightly better with the 5w-40 weight lubricants. The greatest growing concern of mine right now is the M96-M97 IMS chain tensioner. If it were mine, I would replace that tensioner every 40k miles. Jake has seen catastrophic engine damage occur when the IMS chain tensioner has worn-out and left loose for too long. Listen for ratting noises on cold engine start-up, this can be indicative of a worn out IMS chain tensioner. It’s now on my list of preventive maintenance items, not to be taken lightly.

Good luck,
Tony Callas
Callas Rennsport
This makes me think that TheSTone hit on something here and we should have a thread about preventative engine maintenace for high mileage pre-m97 cars.
Aside from the IMSB of course. The advice above seems important yet not well known or understood by most owners...to their peril.

Bfan 02-14-2013 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcallas (Post 327405)
Great question, I would have to say yes. Actually, I will back pedal some on this one, I was thinking about warm running conditions/noise on the M96-M97 engine, but the start-up noise does seem slightly better with the 5w-40 weight lubricants. The greatest growing concern of mine right now is the M96-M97 IMS chain tensioner. If it were mine, I would replace that tensioner every 40k miles. Jake has seen catastrophic engine damage occur when the IMS chain tensioner has worn-out and left loose for too long. Listen for ratting noises on cold engine start-up, this can be indicative of a worn out IMS chain tensioner. It’s now on my list of preventive maintenance items, not to be taken lightly.

Good luck,
Tony Callas
Callas Rennsport
Hi Tony.
Thanks for all the input. What about LN´s IMS chain tensioner upgrade. Does it also need 40 K miles replacement interval?
Gunnlaugur, Reykjavik

BYprodriver 02-14-2013 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bfan (Post 327532)
Hi Tony.
Thanks for all the input. What about LN´s IMS chain tensioner upgrade. Does it also need 40 K miles replacement interval?
Gunnlaugur, Reykjavik
Bfan I think you are referring to the crank to IMS chain tensioner with replaceable wear pad. I call this a "paddle" to differentiate it from the hydraulically operated tensioners. The LN paddle is billet aluminum & should last for the life of the car with the possible exception of the Porsche replaceable wear pad between the paddle & chain.

Bfan 02-14-2013 10:39 AM
Thanks for clearing this up Pro


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