Excellence say just remove the IMS outer seal!
 

I was surprised to read this in Excellence magazine, April, 2013, page 28, in a list of the Top 10 things to do to promote IMS bearing health;

"10. The last, but single most important thing you can do is to remove the gearbox, clutch and flywheel, including the IMS bearing, and remove the IMS bearing outer seal to allow splash lubrication (engine oil) to reach the bearing."

This is from the experts at Excellence. Comments?

I'm going to wait for the IMS Absolution to come out. In the meantime I was told that drinking 8 glasses of water a day and checking for heavy iron deposits will suffice.

Can removing the seal on the larger bearings be done by removing the bearing flange (exposing just part of the bearing)? What do you use to grab the seal? I would like to see a step-by-step on this.

How does oil get on the bearing from the outer side?

Interesting idea...wondering if anyone has actually done this and what the results were.

The LN bearing has this design. The bearing has no seal on the side facing the flange so its lubricated by splash oil, so it looks like its definitely a step in the right direction. The only concern I can see is after you have gone Through the trouble of taking out the tranny,clutch and flywheel, why just remove the seal and not replace the bearing with an LN?

Well, Porsche isn't going to proclaim officially that their buyers should install the LN bearing. But I'd install the LN if I made the effort to get in there in the first place.

What was the other 9?

1. Change oil every 3-5K miles or once a year
2. When changing the oil/filter, check the oil filter for debris
3. Use a magnetic oil drain plug
4. Use an oil with high levels of ZDDP (anti-wear compound)
5. Install a spin on oil filter adapter
6. Drive the car sportingly - upshift above 3K rpm
7. Listen to the engine more and get to know its natural sounds
8. Install an IMS bearing monitoring device
9. Remove and check oil sump for debris every 20K miles

JD may be waiting a long time for the IMS Absolution. The back story on this morning's news flash from Rome is "Popemobile suffers catastrophic IMSB Absolution failure while testing at Vatican Square - Pope distraught, resigns!" .

That was written by Tony Callas, he is my co-instructor in the WTI M96 engine classes that we instruct across the country. We just finished a class yesterday and this question came up.

I will send him this link and see if he has the time to write a response to clarify the position that he took when writing that article.

Removing the seal is the best option when it is the only option; like with a 2006 or newer M97 based engine. Before we spearheaded the IMS retrofit seal removal is all that could be done with ANY model of M96 engine as well.

Hitting (subscribe) button.

Somewhat related to the topic
 

This guy has taken a different approach to IMS failures, but does include removing that seal:
Re: I know Mike personally and professionally ...

Essentially, he using the existing bearing, but adds a direct oil supply spraying soil to the OEM bear without the shield on it. sounds similar to what Jake's solution is in that respect.

He also has some thoughts on the extent of the IMS failures.

Don't forget the three Haily Marys and to leave the good Father a bottle of Redbreast (at least 12 years).

He was also the one who told the one Boxster owner writing in to Excellence to be leary of Mobil 1 0-40 because of suspect levels of ZDDP and the trouble that's causing in valvetrain wear. I guess Excellence are off the Mobil 1 Holiday card list. :)

Any follow up from Mr. Callas?

I sent him this link. He was traveling all day yesterday and trying to catch up today from being away to instruct the class with me. He did state that he was referring to M97 engines in the text.

Thstone,

I do not have my Excellence article directly in front of me for reference, but I believe I was speaking about the M97 engine with the larger diameter IMS bearing. As for the M97 engine, its IMS bearing cannot be replaced without complete dis-assembly of the engine, having said that, I feel that removing the outer seal of the IMS bearing is the best thing that one could do to temporarily lengthen its life, so AT LEAST it can get splash lubrication. We have removed the outer seal on many M97 IMS bearings, on automobiles with mileage well below 30k miles and all have had substantial engine oil contamination.

Yes, I do recommend switching to a boutique type of engine oil, instead of Mobil-1, because I feel that elevated levels of ZDDP is critical to most any engines health.

Tony Callas
Callas Rennsport

Tony, thank you for taking the time to respond to this question. It is in site like this and active engagement with people that helps with the education of issues.

While you're here. :D Do you factor in engine sound at all when you determine if an oil is better or worse for the m96? Some people take comfort in a quieter engine.

Honestly, I cannot tell the difference in M96-M97 engine noise between the 0w-40 and the 5w-40 weight lubricants.

Tony Callas
Callas Rennsport

well I guess I should have said, in your experience, is a quieter engine a better protected engine?

Great question, I would have to say yes. Actually, I will back pedal some on this one, I was thinking about warm running conditions/noise on the M96-M97 engine, but the start-up noise does seem slightly better with the 5w-40 weight lubricants. The greatest growing concern of mine right now is the M96-M97 IMS chain tensioner. If it were mine, I would replace that tensioner every 40k miles. Jake has seen catastrophic engine damage occur when the IMS chain tensioner has worn-out and left loose for too long. Listen for ratting noises on cold engine start-up, this can be indicative of a worn out IMS chain tensioner. It’s now on my list of preventive maintenance items, not to be taken lightly.

Good luck,
Tony Callas
Callas Rennsport

sounds like replacing the tensioner should be part of the Clutch/IMS job being that the typical owner will probably hit 80K before any of this is done. Maybe toss in the water pump too for those who are still on the factory original at that stage.
All are good "mid point" corrections that will have you good to go well into 100K territory. Sounds like a lot to do for a new owner but I gather we'd have many fewer early expirations (kaput engines under 100K miles).

I guess what I don't understand is the following: if the inner seal on the IMS bearing fails, allowing engine oil to contaminate the grease and cause bearing failure, how will the inner seal be strong enough to hold up to lubrication from a separate line into the housing/cover? Furthermore, are the bearings designed for, or at least the same as ones designed for lubrication by crankcase oil? I'm sure there is a simple answer and that I am showing my ignorance, but I am having trouble wrapping my alleged brain around all of this!

Brad

When the seal fails, and oil washes out the grease, the oil remains trapped and is beaten to death by the bearing, after which it offers no cooling or lubrication; the bearing then fails. Remove the rear seal, fresh oil is nearly continuously splash fed into the bearing, providing lubrication and cooling.

One of the common features of a nearly dead IMS is oil inside the seals that smells horrifically because it has long since died.

Mr. Callas, thank you for taking the time to respond. Greatly appreciated. :cheers:

Tony,
What do you use to pull the seal off the bearing? I have replaced an IMS bearing on the M96 and understand securing the crank, cams, chains, and shaft, but what do you use to reach-in and grab the outer seal on the M97 bearing?
Thanks Much

No noise is a good noise. If its loud, it isn't happy. PERIOD!

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...mage_16048.jpg

So none of your cars make any noise on start up?

Hi Tony, thanks for posting. Do you have any inclination as to why a more viscous oil would be quieter at start up? An if it is quieter, why would it be happier, as Jake has stated.

Thanks JFP, that makes sense.

Brad

This makes me think that TheSTone hit on something here and we should have a thread about preventative engine maintenace for high mileage pre-m97 cars.
Aside from the IMSB of course. The advice above seems important yet not well known or understood by most owners...to their peril.

Hi Tony.
Thanks for all the input. What about LN´s IMS chain tensioner upgrade. Does it also need 40 K miles replacement interval?
Gunnlaugur, Reykjavik

Bfan I think you are referring to the crank to IMS chain tensioner with replaceable wear pad. I call this a "paddle" to differentiate it from the hydraulically operated tensioners. The LN paddle is billet aluminum & should last for the life of the car with the possible exception of the Porsche replaceable wear pad between the paddle & chain.

Thanks for clearing this up Pro