What's the worst damage a blown fuel pump can do?
 

What's the worst damage a blown fuel pump can do?

I have 90k km 2005 987 2.7L

It lost power & went into limp home mode on the weekend & then stalled once the revs were low enough as I approached a junction.

I had towed to a well known & respected Indy who said it was a blown fuel pump.

Fuel pump replaced and the car still wont start.

They now say that I need to replace all my plugs as they've been destroyed & that fuel flooded the whole shebang causing the failures.

What I want to know is at worse, what will a blown fuel pump do the engine?

How will it effect the heads? What sequence of events from the pump failure to head damage occurred?

I'm not hugely mechanically minded but to my mind, wouldn't the fuel filter catch the debris if the pump grenaded itself? Wouldn't the techs have spotted the fact that the heads were iffy whilst diagnosing the problems in the first place?

I've gone from a $500 replacement fuel pump to a potential head rebuild & not too happy.

Your thoughts & opinions requested!

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i'll preface my remarks by admitting i'm talking out of my ass here, so...

your fuel pump is built into the fuel tank so when it goes, it should pretty much just cause the engine to stall for lack of fuel. i can't imagine a bad one would flood the engine. fuel injectors should stop the engine from flooding, along with egas monitoring everything...

when the pump goes, it usually makes some noise. did you notice any odd / loud noises while you were driving before this happened? did you have any issues with starting the car - kind of like you were out of gas...

go down there and ask them to show you the fuel pump relay (the fuse) if they can't find it or show it to you then it's time to get it somewhere else. this is the first thing i would check before replacing the pump itself.

Can't help you. Tony's advice above sounds right.

What would casue a fuel pump failure? Did you consistanty run your fuel level low?

Yeah. When a fuel pump fails, the fuel flow stops, not becomes a deluge that somehow gets past the injectors and fouls everything.

Check the fuel pump relay and make sure it's getting power and you're getting fuel pressure...

And find a new shop...

And in regards to the fuel filter catching debris, you don't have a fuel filter. Your car has a non-return fuel system. at most it's equipped with a strainer on the fuel pump. The techs if diagnosing a fueling issue, may not have caught the heads ahead of time, unless there was a problem reported with the head. Generally if you say that there's an issue with your knee when you go to the doctor, do they check your wrist? probably not. Again, that's assuming the shop is correct in their diagnosis of a head issue (which I seriously doubt)

I agree with the guys about your issue. The only way you could have damaged the heads is thru the engine misfiring or backfiring. Just like a doctor who says you need a triple heart by-pass...you get a second opinion.:cheers:

I had a fuel pump fail at 65K. That morning started the car up, just one little stutter for a second, chalked it up to just how these engines sound sometimes.

One the highway about one hour later, just one more little stutter and the car started coasting. Real smooth, no sound or jerking. I pulled over, got it towed home, and plugged in a fuel pressure gauge. No pressure, so I bought a new pump.

Of course, I had 3/4 of a tank of fuel. But with elbow length gloves I did not have any problems replacing it. Once replaced, I let it prime the pump for a minute. The first start took a few seconds to finish getting fuel to the injectors but it started right up, never another problem.

driving :D

in all seriousness, It's a mechanical part. expect it to fail at some point. it WILL NOT last forever

I'm not surprised or annoyed by the fuel pump failing.

I'm thinking maybe the shop either misdiagnosed the problem in the first instance or are trying to fleece me as I questioned them why they were $400 more than the dealer to replace the fuel pump.

Either way I'm looking at a good few G's

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Btw - I did not know know it was a fuel pump issue when I had it towed to them.

They diagnosed that after checking the car over themselves.

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I vote for potential fleece or honest misdiagnosis, electric fuel pump, can't see the related failure you were told about unless it's just a coincidence that they found the two problems at once. I had a watch battery replaced, the normal rate 6$ went in the P car with a nice watch given to me by the company, 6 immediately became 10.

A watch with a battery? Really?? I only thought Perfectlap wore those.:p;)








Sorry, I had to.

I have a self winding unit as well but most of the rest of the collection require batteries. I don't see where the insult is anyhow, a lot of smooth watches require batteries, the one I was servicing is a Movado, it's a nice piece.

First off, the shop is either a scam or an idiot.

Some fun facts:
- a dead fuel pump will not flood an engine
- dead fuel pump is like running out of fuel, chance of any damage with it shutting off is almost zero.
- the real worry about a dead fuel pump is when it's not flowing 100% and the MAF can't be scaled enough to add more fuel for the air intake, thus creating a lean situation and making your engine go boom. This would only happen at WOT.
- Head damage? lol. If there is detonation and part of the bottom end which blows up takes the head out as collateral damage.


Can you give us more input on what the car was doing when you drove it last.

Nick

Car suddenly began to feel down on power, I then noticed it was trying to be in the highest gear possible (running in 5th even at low speeds under acceleration). When I got to a safe place to stop the car stalled just before it came to a rest.

Engine was slightly noisier than normal during this time.

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I assume tiptronic. Sounds like something in the transmission.

Nick

if the fuel pump was gone and couldn't supply adequate fuel on a consistent basis then the computer *should* have thrown a code about inability to attain appropriate air/fuel mix.

If the box was out the engine would still start & not kill the valves & plugs right?

Spoke to the shop again & they're admitting that they diagnosed it incorrectly & have now run other tests on it.

Compression very low & timing is out.

Could be a broken balancing shaft?

Any ideas?

Sounds like I'm racking up a bill large enough to have bought & installed a 3.2L already!

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time for an upgrade!

Since they diagnosed one thing and now coming back with another...I am wondering, are they good enough.:ah:

Jcb I'm wondering the same thing.

They're very well respected & been around for a long time so I kinda trusted them.

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timing issues are a very bad thing in a boxster. where in canada are you, as you need a shop that can save your engine at this point. certainly do not run it again.

In Vancouver.

lemme guess - is your car at jacobs?

mcl and weissach are good dealer mechanics. jeff at pacific western performance and james at scan automotive are both good guys that know the m96 engine (james races a 3.6 boxster and jeff tracks a cayman).

Sounds like the IMS might have let loose, hope it's something else. I'd try and get the car to someone who specializes in the M96.

Not naming names as I want a decent resolution to this.

Would an IMS failure cause some obvious piston/valve interfacing?

Wouldn't an IMS failure be more obvious?

I'm not a tech so I've really no idea.

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i'm no expert but, from what i've read, timing chains can jump teeth if given the opportunity by wobbly ims bearings, failed chain ramps, worn tensioners, etc.

If you have had a failed IMS with piston/valve contact, both your oil and oil filter should be full of metal. Drain the oil and look at it; pull the filter and cut it open. If the IMS went, it will be obvious.

They allegedly performed a maintenance service on it (usual suspects oil, filters etc.) whilst waiting for fuel pump to arrive.

So I guess they would've caught that immediately.

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if you have access to another car, drive to the shop and have them show you everything they're talking about. don't say you don't understand, don't say you're a neophyte. write it all down, then go home and search for it. learn what they're trying to sell you.

to me, a shop that can't tell the difference between a bad fuel pump and a catasrophic engine failure is not reputible.

Time for any Vancouverites to help out with a list of recommended m96 specialists.

My pump went out in the garage when trying to back out. 2 days and $216.95 later The car started and ran perfect. Looking at the old pump I see a plastic impellere semi/glued to a small shaft of a 12 volt dc motor. This failure is due to the "start" of the spin after years of weakness brought on by chemical deterioration/reaction/attack on plastic. At 90 K it was expected. Just like any of my service trucks. "It's a fuel pump" Hope you are back on the road soon !!!

Rolex, Once you put it on, you can't take it off !!! WARNING DANGER !!!

What!! 987s don't have a fuel filter??

We know it's not the fuel pump.

It's a major catastrophic engine failure that the 'specialist' somehow missed for the 1st two days.

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987's have the strainer/ filter combined as part of the fuel pump assembly.
The earlier 986's have a seperate fuel filter just forward of the engine

Ok so my options as presented to me by the shop.

New engine from Porsche at $20k plus fitting.

Used engine but they can't find one.

Spend 15 hrs extracting engine & splitting the case, diagnose & fix the issues, spend 15 hrs refitting everything.

Option 3 will cost 30 hrs labour at $125/hr plus taxes & plus whatever it costs to remedy to fault.

Damn!

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You need to get to the shop & see the evidence of this in the oil filter! The shop should show you this. Before you go call on the phone & tell them you can't afford to fix it & what you owe them so far for the bad diagnosis. Have the car towed to 1 of the other shops mentioned earlier!

It's already at one of the shops previously mentioned.

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apologies; sounds like i might have given you a bum recommendation.

the more the car is run after a failure like this, the more opportunity for damage. given the misdiagnosis by the shop, they are now complicit in any damage that arose from them running the car once it arrived. given that, i doubt that they'll be forthcoming with oil filter contents or other standard diagnostics that should have happened long before the fuel pump got messed with.

if it were me i'd look at two options - get the car out of there asap, or make them acknowledge that they are complicit in the current state of your engine and do the right thing.

Not your fault at all. The shop is one of the most highly recommended shops in town.

At this moment they're assessing their strategy after I told them I'm coming over to tow the car.

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