986 or 987?? help please.

[lexuspilot]

Quote:
If you have U in your VIN, the car was built in Finland. S means Stuttgart. From what I've read, most Boxsters are built in Finland today. There have been stories that the quality control is better in Finland.
Yes I know this, you were the one mistakingly referring to all of them as built in Finland. I have a Stuttgart car. What is so ************************ wrong or cheap about the interior. I haven't been in a sub 50,000 dollar car with a better interior and just drove a GT3 with the exact same interior. Some of us don't want our sports cars looking like a Maxima or Subaru. I consider the 986 interior to be flat out Porsche.

[Brucelee]

Ok, lets all be cool. No need to resort to profanity.

Lets face it, much of what we feel is totally subjective. Lets keep a light spirit about this subject!

:dance:

[lexuspilot]

BruceLee, the original post asked for opinions

I could/should have left out the swears...I blame the swears on the price of fuel.

[longislander1]

Thanks, Brucelee. My feelings exactly. The beauty of these forums is that we can read other people's opinions and then decide whether we agree with them or not. Lexuspilot, you don't like the Japanese transmission and I'm not crazy about the 986 interior. Sounds like a draw to me. More important, we both love our Porsches, so there's something positive we have in common.

Now let's go on to the next topic.

[lexuspilot]

If I had been of sound mind today I would have said I prefer this to that. I don't dislike anything Porsche.
No worries.

[Pilot2519j]

986 can't imagine driving a Porsche with an automatic. It would be heresy!

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Pilot2519j

986 can't imagine driving a Porsche with an automatic. It would be heresy!

The Tip is actually a pretty nice trans. Out here in SOCAL, the freeway is pretty deadly on the six speeders! Stop and go but mostly stop.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by lexuspilot

BruceLee, the original post asked for opinions

I could/should have left out the swears...I blame the swears on the price of fuel.

Good stuff. We do have great posters here.

That is what makes this so much fun.

Thanks!

[Perfectlap]

heresy?,
Well I once went for a ride in a highly modified white 944 with a slushbox.
It was a real beauty and very much a Porsche.
Here a beeeeeautiful 928 with only 16K miles
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/87-928-S4-Only-16k-Miles-Pristine-Condition_W0QQitemZ4575341518QQcategoryZ6432QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

[lexuspilot]

Yummy.......

[MNBoxster]

Ok,

I have been following this thread with interest and now feel compelled to stir the waters a little bit more. Here goes...

I totally disagree that a convertible designates the car, any car, as a Chick Car. I certainly wouldn't call the Cobra, the 550 Spyder, a Big Healey or an E-Type Jag Chick Cars. And, I think anyone who would simply doesn't know what they're talking about.

I also disagree that there's anything wrong with Japanese Transmissions. The Japanese have pretty much ALWAYS made good trannys. I have been an avid Datsun Z Car collector for more than 30 years (I still own my original, one-owner '71 240Z - Pristine w/ 20k mi. on the clock). I have owned 8 of them through the years and never once had a tranny issue with any of them despite the fact the two were dedicated Track/Auto-X cars. Further, you almost never hear of transmission troubles from Toyotas, Hondas, Subarus. Finally, JATCO (Japan Automatic Transmission Co.) supplies the tranny in my wife's Jaguar X-Type Sport and it's great, totally trouble-free. 'Nuff said.

I spoke with Porsche NA's National Service VP a while back and he told me that they have many fewer warranty issues with the cars built in Uusikaupunki, Finland by Valmet. This stands to reason. Finland has a 99% High School Graduation rate and a 100% Literacy Rate, while most of the Line Workers in Stuttgart are imported mostly from North Africa (Egypt, Morrocco) , because German Labor rates are too high, and their countries are nowhere near these numbers. Also, there's no shame in driving a Porsche built outside of Stuttgart or Leipzig, this is as much a Porsche tradition as using the outside mounted Cold Start Ignition. Through the years, Porsche has contracted for production in Finland, France, Italy, Czechoslovakia and Poland for both sub-assemblies and total assembly. In fact, not a single 914 was ever produced in Germany, the Czechs made them all.

The TiptronicS tranny is great! I have one in my '99 986. I regularly win Auto-X with it. I have gotten as high as 30MPG on the highway, but do admit it carries a penalty driving in-town. It has more torque than a manual by the simple fact that a torque converter actually multiplies the Engine's torque (an inhherent quality of all automatics). Plus, Porsche added about 8 ponies to the TipS models to make-up for parasitic loss. Add to that there are fewer RMS Failures with the TipS and one of the two local dealers here in Mpls. has NEVER had a TipS Boxster in for repair, the only practice they get are fluid/filter changes. It has perfect balance, and in my case, if I feel the need to Row, I can simply jump into my Lotus, 240Z or take my Formula Vee to the Track, so a Manual Boxster just isn't all that high on my list.

So far as the 986 vs 987 debate, this is simply a matter of taste. I don't think either one is better, but I admit to simply liking the 986 more. I too could buy a 987 tomorrow if I chose to.

Power should never be part of any proper discussion regarding Sports Cars. Sports Cars are not about Excess, they're about Balance and Handling. Those people hell-bent to Bald the Tires in a Block are confusing Sports Cars with Muscle Cars. The truth is, most would actually be happier in a Viper or Vette, but want to be known as Refined , Sophisticated, Enthusiasts instead of NasCar Wannabes. I see the same thing in the Lotus Esprit forums. My '85 Esprit will wax most Vettes out there in anything but the straightest road, yet I hear from all sorts who want to add this Go Fast Part or that. They don't understand that they're upsetting a very delicate balance designed into the car. Sobeit, that's what's Great about America, but at least let's call them for what they are.

Of course, all my ramblings are just my humble opinion. One which has been shaped by 30 years of owning, maintaining, repairing, rebuilding, driving and racing a total of 39 Sports cars from Datsuns, MGs, Healeys, Triumphs, Jags, Lotus, Porsches and Ferraris... and counting!

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[SD987]

Good post, I like controversy as much as the next person ! My not so humble opinions on the topics herein, and not in any particular order:

After 7000 miles in my 987 I have a sneaking suspicion that these Japanese transmissions are going to be a "trouble-spot". While I haven't had the transmission meltdown experienced and posted about by Eslai, I think the tranny has "issues".

If it's possible to characterize the ability of the workforce in one nation to assemble a car better than another based on demographics, I would have to agree with MNBoxster's observations and would prefer to have my car assembled by the Finns, although certainly not designed by them I would also add, that in the contractor vs. employer relationship, there is more incentive for the "contractor" to do a good job and not f/up then the employer. I would assume that the Porsche contract is one of the most important and lucrative to Valmet, and certainly the most prestigious.

I don't think the Boxster is perceived so much as a chick car as much as it is considered to be a car for those who might be considered "flamboyant" (a chick/hairdresser type attribute?). Part of the joy of driving the Boxster is being seen in it and drawing attention, and if you can't concede this to be a source of pleasure, I'd say you're just kidding yourself and trying to buck human nature.

Simply put, in terms of bang for the buck, the 987 Base is a great "value", the S, not so much.

Given the choice, on the basis of performance, I'm not sure why someone would buy a tiptronic S which is slower "on paper" than the base. That being said, while I'm sure Walter Rorhl could do it with ease, I have my doubts as to whether your average manual base driver could consistently beat a tip S 0-60...not to mention that sometimes driving a manual is quite the hassle.

The superiority of the 987 to the 986 is no more debatable than Darwin's theory of evolution, and to argue the superiority of the 986 is equivalent to purporting that Homo Erectus was superior to Homo Sapiens. A more timely reference would be to state that people today are on average taller, stronger and faster than they were 100 years ago. But it certainly doesn't imply that the value of a human's life or the strength of the human spirit today is an any way greater than it was for those that came before us.

As far as looks go, I'm sure that Homo Erectus thought that other H-E were pretty attractive. Homo Erectus' powerful foreams (useful for fashioning stone knives), swarthy complexion and potruding brow might even appeal to modern Homo Sapiens who like the strong silent type. However, I know I wouldn't have bought a Boxster if Porsche hadn't made the changes that they did.

[Perfectlap]

don't you lose torque in between shifts with a tip?
I recall that being one of the reasons why an expert
contributor to Excellence Magazine chose the 986S manual over the tip.
Something about "not getting the full effect of the engine".

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

don't you lose torque in between shifts with a tip?
I recall that being one of the reasons why an expert
contributor to Excellence Magazine chose the 986S manual over the tip.
Something about "not getting the full effect of the engine".

Hi,

I don't feel that you do. The TipS cars effectively make more Torque than a Manual by nature of the fact that the Torque Converter actually multiplies the Engine's Torque. Plus, the TipS shifts much faster than a Manual so it really wouldn't matter. If you mean can the Engine fall out of the Power Band? Then yes, it can, but so does a Manual. I don't think I fully understand your question.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

[Brucelee]

Several brief comments:

1-Boxsters are considered chick cars by some folks. The vast majority of owners however, are male.

So, who cares what non-Boxster owners thnk? It is a very fine car and we know it!

2-I am driving a C5 corvette right now. The car is a very fine handling machine and I would not be concerned about taking on any twisty road.

In a straight line, it is a blur!

3-In SOCAL, a rag top is almost mandatory. I don't understand how a convertable cannot be considered a SC. Would any Ferrari rag not be considered a SC?

People have all these artitrary distinctions when in reality, they don't hold up to the facts.

In the end, it is all just opinion. Kinda of like the opinions on the TIP.

Hey, drive a tip, if you like it, buy it.

If not, don't!

It is, what it is!

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I don't feel that you do. The TipS cars effectively make more Torque than a Manual by nature of the fact that the Torque Converter actually multiplies the Engine's Torque. Plus, the TipS shifts much faster than a Manual so it really wouldn't matter. If you mean can the Engine fall out of the Power Band? Then yes, it can, but so does a Manual. I don't think I fully understand your question.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

I'll have to unearth the issue of Excellence, but I remember very clearly that it said that a tiptronic transmission shaves power in between shifts, resulting in a loss of torque( vs. Manual Trans). It could be that the TC does in fact multiply the torque but (according to Excellence) it's still less torque overall than what you would get manually shifting where there is no shaving of power.

Its the Excellence issue "rating the best Porsche convertibles" .

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I'll have to unearth the issue of Excellence, but it remember very clearly that it said that a tiptronic transmission shaves power in between shifts, resulting in a loss of torque. It could be that the TC does in fact multiply the torque but (according to Excellence) its till less torque overall than what you would get manually shifting where there is no shaving of power.

Hi,

I'm still unclear as to what you mean. If you mean that the TipS robs some HP, well I agree, with some exception. Any Automatic Transmission has some Parasitic Loss associated with it simply because it draws Crank power to run the TC pump and the Servos in the Tranny. That said, Porsche adds about 8HP to the TipS cars over the Manual ones to make up for this Parasitic Loss, so there should be no Net effect.

But, your initial post mentioned robbing Torque which isn't the same thing as Power which you now state. In either event, I think I've addressed the issue, as has Porsche.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

[Perfectlap]

yes it robs torque vs. a manual, in addition to HP. Meaning there is a net loss with a tip.
I think that if Porsche had completely addressed the issue, then the Excellence contributor wouldn't have cited the tip power/torque reduction as a reason to opt for the manual S vs. the tip.

I have no experience driving a tip. BUt I have driven paddles and I can say that these are inventions of the Devil which have ruined motorsports. But Great if you're an older guy or have physical limitations.
Hopefully someday I'll find that Ferrari 360 coupe with NO paddles.

[lexuspilot]

Brucelee,

On your point numbered 3:
Where in the post did it say Boxsters aren't Sports cars?

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by lexuspilot

Brucelee,

On your point numbered 3:
Where in the post did it say Boxsters aren't Sports cars?

Sorry, misread this as Sports cars vs Chick cars.

Hmmm, can a sports car BE a chick car?