Upshifting and Downshifting
 

"I am interested in learning more about proper clutch use, upshifting and downshifting to maximize performance and minimize clutch and engine wear. Could you start a new thread and discuss this? I'm all ears (or eyes as it were)."


Well, we can discuss it if people want. :)

Minimizing clutch wear is easy--don't use the clutch, don't slip the clutch. It'll last longer.

Minimizing engine wear is also easy--don't get into high revs.

Maximizing performance is a toughy though. What is "performance"? Does that pertain to making the transmission last longer, or are we talking about lap times?

Actually, that's not as hard to categorize as one might think since "lap times" and "tranny reliability" aren't mutually exclusive. Learning how to rev-match your downshifts is definitely good for drivetrain wear, for instance.

There is one key to maximizing durability of parts: "Drive smoothly":

- Don't throw the car into second and slam the throttle so fast that the car jerks. That's extra force that's going through little itty bitty gearsets like a hammer.

- Don't let the wheels hop or spin because every time those tires find traction you're hammering on your gears with your engine.

- Be smooth with the throttle--don't just let off the gas from full throttle, don't tap the throttle fast when cruising around in first and second gear, etc.

First and second gear are your most powerful gears, with second being your real workhorse gear. It's very easy to damage these two gears if you're not careful.

Anyone else that wants to contribute, please do!

(Now, with all of that in mind, I'm still wondering how I broke my tranny, as I know all of this and don't beat on the car, IMHO...)

You broke the tranny in your brand new boxster? :eek:

Well, the tranny broke, whether or not _I_ had anything to do with it is debatable. :)

Check this thread out:

http://www.986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3459

I'd add the following and elaborate on my previous post...

I notice a surprising number of stick drivers who don't let the engine wind down and push in the clutch as soon, or too early as they start braking/decelerating. Letting the engine wind down dramatically improves brake performance and wear by using engine compression to help slow the vehicle. I’m not talking about engine braking, I’m talking about coasting/slowing with a gear engaged; not in neutral.

As far as engine braking goes, I would not recommend downshifting specifically for the purpose of slowing the car, only to keep the revs in the appropriate range so that if you need acceleration quickly you won’t be caught short. On that subject, variocam kicks in at 4200 revs (which is one reason they want you to stay below this range during break-in) and peak torque/power is produced between 4200-6000+. But this is not to suggest you need to keep the Boxster in this range to drive effectively. I personally downshift between 2000-2500 revs. I also don’t consider engine-braking to be running it in 3rd gear down a hill to stay at about 55, I’d consider that winding down, but just to be clear, if I was doing 75 down that hill in 5th gear and put it into 3rd without applying the brakes and matching revs, I would consider that engine braking.

Take the time to come to a full stop when going R -1 or 1 - R. I’ve been known to visibly wince when I see someone doing this. You're dealing with the two strongest gears and switching while rolling between the two just equals BAD. It’s a clutch, not a momentum-reverser.

Don't shift mid-turn. You're momentarily taking the drive component away when your car most needs it. I kick myself a lot on this one, instead of shifting down to second or third before a turn, I do it in the middle…not exactly powering through. This ties into heel-toe shifting and while I'm not personally concerned with classic heel-toe maneuvering I certainly would agree that blipping the throttle makes down-shifts smoother (classic heel-toe and blipping the throttle on a downshift are not to be confused as the same thing).

I noticed the adverse affects of the clutch-move into first instead of move towards first - clutch in the 987 5 speed when I would get jammed/locked out of first. This was just laziness on my part, and you can get away with doing this in a lot of cars but the 987 no-likee. Reducing the shifter travel when the clutch is disengaged will also improve your pull-away time, unless you’re one of those people who sits at the red light with the clutch in and the shifter in first, which is 2 Fast 2 Furious and 2 Long.

The above being said, I think the biggest culprit to poor clutch/transmission life is general technique. It amazes me that people can go their whole lives and be crappy shifters. But when you think how people are taught it’s basically like this:

The teacher tells them to put the clutch in, then let the clutch out while pushing down the gas…usually the teacher then puts his hands together palms down and starts waving them to simulate the pedal timing required to engage the pressure plate to the clutch disc. Not a lot to go on really…IMHO I think there's more to it then that if you want to shift with consistency and maximize your performance.

That was some of the best advice I've ever seen on shifting. Awesome post SD987! :cheers:

My 2 personal favorites:
I get chills when I see this. :eek: Don't do it in your automatic either if you want your tranny to last any time at all.
It can be dangerous in some cases. If you're going too fast and start to slip, you have no gear to help you get back in control.

One thing not mentioned that I see a lot is shifting up too early to "baby" the car. You should never shift to the next gear if you will be below 2K rpm after shifting. The owner's manual says 1500, but I personally like 2K so if you miss a little you're still above the 1500. Accelerating at low RPMs puts a huge amount of stress on the drive shaft and the engine. I read a tech question in Panorama one time from someone who would never take the Boxster above 3K rpm to help it last. They're probably killing their drive shaft and engine by stressing it soooo hard.

The best advice I think I could come up with is drive it like it's a, oh I don't know, PORSCHE! :dance:

Ah yeah, this is important--a lot of people coast around in neutral without realizing that this is dangerous. You can't get out of the way of someone if you're in neutral!

This is key, really. You can't heel-toe, rev-match, or any of that effectively if you aren't consistent with it. I know a lot of guys that drive around like hotshots but half of the time, they screw up their shifts... No good.

I am very interested in this topic but I can't follow all the terminology used. Can someone translate for me into english :) ?

What does slip the clutch mean exactly? Is that the same as feather the clutch?

And can someone clarify this statement? Clutch-move into 1st and move towards first. Is he trying to say something about shifting up into 1st and down into 1st? What is reduce shifter travel when clutch is disengaged mean? Is he just saying when the clutch is pressed in don't move the stick between gears alot?

Any wisdom on sitting at a stoplight on a slope with cars jammed in behind you and trying to avoid the car from rolling back?

Thanks in advance. :confused:

I need a little translation too.

In GA, it's illegal to do this because of the reason you stated.

Sooooo true. I don't know how to "heel-toe" but with the rev-match my wife was not a happy camper as I figured out the revs. Lots of feeling and listening to do, but you can't change driving style when you have a passenger. You'll never get it right that way. ;)

shifting
 

an informative site -

http://www.waycoolinc.com/z3/essentials/fixit/heeltoe/shifting.htm

the hard part is finding a place to practice. a deserted stretch of road is good. the track is challenging because there's a lot of other things going on.

at a track, you can hear the good shifters by the smooth transition from one frquency to another, and by the lack of "jump" in the car during downshifts. easy to explain, easy to understand, hard to master.

Another confession. I've never owned this much car.

I "think" I know how to drive a stick, but I'm sure the Boxster is beyond my knowledge set.

IOW, I wouldn't mind so much making mistakes and beating on a Miata -- and as Rail26 thinks, I should want to beat on a Solstace -- but for a Porsche, I want to give the car the respect it deserves.

I'm not even starting to talk about racing or tracking the car. I need to improve my on-street driving skills so that eventually I can maximize the machine's potential, and at first, do no harm.

At least, if later I may break some of the rules for handling a Boxster, at least I should know what the rules are and how badly I'm breaking them.

With that windup -- does anyone know a good Porsche driving instructor in Orange County or nearby?

Do the same thing as Europeans, use the handbrake/e-brake:
Stop the car, put on the handbrake before shifting into neutral
When preparing to start, push the clutch in, move the stick to 1st, then use gas and clutch to find the biting point, before taking off the handbrake to move smoothly away. This is actually a compulsory part of the British driving test.

I have been holding the car in place on a slope by finding the "biting point" or letting the clutch out just enough to hold the car on the incline. I did not know to use the parking break or hand break. I assume that by using the hand break you are taking some stress off the clutch.

Yes, it keeps the clutch from overheating and wearing: I've had clutches last way past 100,000 miles by being careful with them like this, whereas my brother does things differently and has trashed 3 clutches in the last 3 years...

Slipping the clutch = feathering the clutch. Both are bad.

I'm not entirely sure what he meant by that paragraph about clutch-move into 1st instead of move towards first clutch bit too. But the basic gist of it I think was that he wants to minimize shifter movement when the clutch is disengaged (meaning you've got the clutch pedal down).

I'm not sure that that's what SD987 means though because that could be misconstrued in a lot of ways so probably should wait for clarification.

One thing that he said there that I understood was that you shouldn't ride the clutch pedal. You should only have the clutch pedal in when you are shifting. Get off the pedal as soon as you can.

Keep your hand off the shifter too. Your hands should be on the steering wheel--you touch the shifter when you are shifting, that is all. Don't rest your hand on it either--that can be bad for the shift forks, among other things.

As for sitting on a slope, well, put it in neutral. When it's time to go, put it in first, then be really good with the engagement point. :D A lot of people that are new to manual cars will use the parking brake to aid in this task. when I was learning though I just found that to be "too many things going on at once"--always confused me to use the parking brake.

Oh yeah, that's the surefire way to need a $700 clutch job within a year. Don't do it, you're burning up your clutch!

Limoncello, thanks for that link, interesting reading.

I don't claim to be 'Joe-driver', and just like anyone else, my tendencies come from how I was originally taught and personal experience driving manual cars from day one. That being said, I've found the following tips to be helpful in improving performance.

In my experience the timing of the pedal movement is actually secondary to making the correct movements. What do I mean? How hard can it be to press three pedals?

Well it’s like a golf swing, if the same basic movements are done with the wrong muscle groups instead of the right ones, it’s pretty hard to hit a perfect shot, no matter how you time it. The first thing I would recommend is to actually stick your head in the footwell (preferably when no one else is around) and see how the pedals are configured; look behind the gas pedal. Automotive engineers are pretty smart people and they don't place the pedals in a car without one, consideration for human physiology and two, the time honored art of performance driving.

A. For a human to exert maximum force with their feet, involves the leg muscles motivating first the heel muscles which serve to align the primary muscle group below the arch for optimal application. Lastly the muscles toward the front of the foot below the toes fully extend to apply smaller but more precise amounts of force. When releasing that force, the heel actually starts first, down and slightly forward to serve as a pivot point of reference for the rest of the foot.

B. The brake and gas are located close to each other, obviously because the same foot controls them, but also to perform classic heel-toe shifting, in which the right foot operates both pedals simultaneously.

How does A + B translate into action?

1. The gas pedal is meant to be operated with the right half of the right foot (think of using the outside foot muscles) and pressed down and up to the right (northeasterly), oddly enough, the same direction that the pedal is pointing. If you’re someone who pushes the gas pedal straight down, with the inner/stronger foot muscles (the natural tendency), you’re going to tend to lug the engine and have difficulty. The ability to modulate the throttle response pushing as I suggest, versus straight down is night and day and essential if you were to actually give heel-toe shifting a shot.

2. Brake pedals are meant to be pushed down with the inner leg muscles and left top side of the right foot. The brake response between doing this and just jamming on the brake with your whole foot isn’t remarkable, but using that part of the foot improves switching speed between brake and gas which is key. Initial alignment of the right foot at rest should be to the brake pedal.

3. The clutch pedal is also engaged by pushing down and forward with the inner part of the left foot to maximum extension (of the arch), and is released by initiating with the heel as I mentioned above. Many drivers don’t fully extend their arch (and thus the pedal) when putting the clutch in, which is helpful to smooth shifting. The combination of the heel initiated release and relaxation of the arch muscles from full extension is engineered into the “take-up” built into the clutch pedal, i.e. the amount of required release during which little noticeable happens before the point of engagement when your primary muscle group and toes come into play. I think alot of drivers initially control the release of the clutch from the front/toe area creating labored starts, e.g. riding the clutch. Without employing the heel area as a reference point, your left foot is a ship without a rudder. These folks not surprisingly find that they shift smoother when they don’t push the clutch all the way in, just until they are below the engagement point (the clutch slip area). Because they can’t get the timing of the take-up right, they skip the whole take-up step but are reducing clutch life. Using the clutch slip area to hold yourself on a hill is even worse...

Move purposefully and with confidence. Tentative movements while driving are like decelerating your putter…However, don’t make your feet stiff as a board, otherwise you’re running counter to everything I suggested above. A bad tendency people have is to delay the gas. As soon as that gear clicks into place, apply gas. Even during what seems like a momentary delay your car is actually foundering (has no drive to the wheels) and is slowing down. People have too much pause in all gears, but mostly they seem to do this in first gear, which is the natural tendency after years of tentatively pulling out of first for fear of stalling out.

When using the shifter in the Box use your wrist muscles more than your fingers. The wrist muscles are stronger and the Porsche shifter is heavy, but more importantly the wrist muscles have a limited range of movement which also match the movements built into the shifter. If you wiggle your fingers, they can go all over the place but this is an instance where flexibility is less desirable than strength and muscle-matched engineering.

To be in optimal position for manual driving I would do a couple of things.

Unless your arms and legs are proportioned like a baboon I suggest you push yourself back a little. Most drivers I see are too close to the wheel and pedals. Move back to a point where with your arms extended, the top of the wrist joint overhangs the steering wheel; and your legs (with the clutch pedal pushed fully in) are extended but to a point well before your knees lock. Your knees should be slightly bowed out but not touching the center console (right knee). This will put you in that maximum force position when the clutch pedal is fully depressed and facilitate using the outside/right portion of the right foot when applying gas. People who sit too close are also putting themselves in real danger if the air bag is activated. Manufacturers recommend a minimum of 10 inches from the air bag.

Some readers of this post may say..."no kidding" to most of these or think I’m full of crap. That’s OK, and I'd welcome other points of view or disagreement, but maybe something we add in this thread will make someone shift smoother, launch faster and have more clutch life.

Oh I don't think so--I think there's a lot of guys here that have expressed interest in learning, your post is well-received!

I'm not sure if you're talking about doing that when starting to go or while sitting on an incline. Doing that while sitting at a light will wear the clutch disc out really quick. It also stresses the engine, drive shaft and flywheel.

IMHO it's best to learn to get it quick so you don't have to use the brake. If you can't, using the parking brake is the next best thing. :cheers:

I appreciate even what seems to many as basic advice. I learned to drive a stick 18 years ago on a VW Golf and never drove another until I got this car so I am trying to iron out bad habbits.

I am getting better at quick starts on an incline but if you are in traffic on an incline you are constantly doing quick starts and stopping after only a few feet. It seemed easier to just ease the clutch in and out to control speed and keep from rolling backwards but it sounds like I am putting undue wear on my clutch. Thanks to all for your advice.

Just keep in mind also that you have a lot more torque in your current car than in your old VWs. :) You can really punish your clutch without even feeling it. :)

Sometimes you just gotta do whatcha gotta do. It drives me nuts on the freeway just stop-go-stop-go. Especially when you're uphill and the guy behind you is 6" off your bumper. :rolleyes: It may not always be the best driving conditions, but hey, I'm in a Boxster with a hot woman in the passenger seat . :D (when she lets me drive ;) )

Man have cars come a long way. I learned at about the same time in a delivery van (I was a L'eggs rep when first married) with a column shift 4-speed. Now that's a manly man's car!!! :dance: ROFL

That was great advice! Thanks! SD987, ever thought of being a motivational speaker? The golf/driving vignettes were interesting. Would somebody now discuss rev matching?

I read the included website below and think I have a vague idea of rev matching....as you are coming out of gear going to the next are you giving it some gas before you get to the next gear?

Thanks for the informative post, SD987! Your explanation of physiology & pedal operation was awesome new info to me.

I've never analyzed my personal clutch takeup technique before but from what you said I know I can make some improvements. First start pivoting at the heel (larger movement) until the bite point, then use the toe/front area of my foot to fine-tune the clutch takeup from there. Nice. :cheers:

It's funny to me when I see drivers that stomp on the clutch pedal with their entire foot. I don't see how anyone can retain any fine control without the foot anchored to the ground, but y'know, i've seen a lot of videos of rally drivers that drive that way. To each his own; they're better drivers than me so who am i to judge? :)

As for the question of rev-matching, yes, it's about giving the car gas between gears (when you're downshifting) so that when you put the car back in gear and let out the clutch, the input and output shafts in the tranny are spinning at matching speed and the car's balance isn't upset when the clutch reengages.

Just to be clear, I wasn't espousing anchoring the left foot to the floor at any point in the clutch process, I was suggesting using the left heel as a reference point even if the heel is unsupported, but I would certainly agree to each his own YMMV. In that vein, one can't discount one's feet in the process, considering that a large portion of the earth's population have foot problems. Personally, I have low, and consequently weak arches (flat feet) and need to adjust accordingly.

To respond to Rail's question, matching revs on a downshift would go clutch-in gas - gas (the first time being a blip to get the revs up, the second one being timed with the clutch release).

I did want to expand on one of the last points in my post regarding how one holds the shifter and shifts. I was over at Barnes and Noble the other day (does anyone actually buy, let alone subscribe to magazines anymore? or do they just read them at the store, like me?) and I was pleasantly surprised to see a book on performance driving. Sadly, it didn't have much "practical" advice, but the author (some racer whose name I didn't recognize, but I'm sure others would) said it wasn't till into his career did he realize the correct way to shift, and it was from driving an Audi (during Audi's stretch of dominance). He said the mental picture that worked for him was to enfold the shifter in the hand as delicately as if it was an egg, thus primarily using the other muscles in the wrist and arm to shift with while maintaining the appropriate lack of force in the hand.

If you read Golf Digest, there is this section where they have like a 3, 15 and 20+ handicap try whatever swing-tip Golf Digest is recycling that month. The section is called "I tried it" and it makes me laugh because the 20 + guy is always like, "Yeah, it worked for me" (funnier if you're a pretty decent golfer)...anyway, back to the point of the yarn, I tried the "egg" thought....and "Yeah, it worked for me". Weird thing is, not only does the shifter shift better, but the clutch engages and disengages smoother too...Pretty weird stuff, which I haven't thought of a complicated reason for yet (but give me time). But this does remind me of a sign of whether you're a good rower or not. If the shifter goes into gear as a one-syllable sound ("Chunk") you're being overly forceful with the hand muscles;...If it goes in making a two-syllable sound ("Cachunk")...that's about right.

SD, where did you learn all this? I'm convinced more than ever that I need hands-on training to make sure I know what I'm doing with my new Porsche. Know of a good instructor in SD-OC-LA?

SoCal, I think the best approach is experimentation to determine what works best for you, within the general framework of what we could term "best practices". A DE (Driver's Ed) teacher, or someone else you get paired up with at a PCA event might have some good insights, but I would imagine they'll be more concerned with getting you around the course safely, than the mechanics of your driving.

I would chalk up any insights I might have to a good teacher (Dad) and my own experimentation. I'm an avid and pretty good golfer so I focus on what my body is doing when making athletic motions and achieving consistency. I'm an analyst for a securities firm, so I analyze and write for a living. But most helpful, I've just spent a gazillion miles in manual cars (I've had some long-ass commutes for previous jobs; for example, I used to live in Philadelphia but worked in New York) and if you're moving in gridlock, working on your shifting is just another way to pass the time.

I read a lot of books, listened to a lot of people, and watched a lot of race car drivers either from the passenger seat or from a video tape. It helps a lot to just observe.

If you wanted to pay someone to teach you how to drive, you could conceivably learn how to shift better, but all of the schools I've ever seen have been more concerned with teaching you how to drive the line and keep the car balanced on the right wheels at the right time than they have been concerned with teaching you any of the mechanics behind shifting and clutching smoothly.

If you start going to track events often enough though you'll start making friends and their experience will help you a lot!

See in my case I step on the pedal with the ball of my foot and eventually my heel contacts the ground at which point I pivot on the heel, stretching my arch out, etcetera.

People seem to think that I sit rather close to the steering wheel also, but I need to be able to put the clutch to the floor or else things don't feel right for me. That, and since the steering wheel doesn't telescope on the 987 and I don't quite have ape arms, I need to sit closer to have proper leverage on the steering wheel.

Purchase some Drifting Videos. All the videos I've seen specifically show the pedal and shifting techniques on the screen PLUS explain everything very throuroughly.

KRZ

FYI...the 987 wheel does telescope and is adjustable for pitch. Release lever is below the wheel on the right side...

wow great write up SD... I agree with everything you said except for positioning of the driver.

I was at an autocross and was having significant trouble keeping the car stable during downshifts. I was rev matching very well, I was holding the shifter correctly... I couldn't figure out what the problem was. I had someone ride with me and they said the problem was I was sitting too far away from the wheel and pedals. The guy who rode with me, a very experienced road racer and autocrosser, said that the optimum position for the driver is the one where you can press the clutch pedal completely in with your RIGHT foot. I adjusted my seat accordingly and have found driving on the street as well as the track much easier. By moving my seat that one position forward, it put everything where Porsche designed it to be. The shifter was more accessible and easier to operate as were all 3 of the pedals.

Secondly on the rev match/ heel-toe topic, I have found that in most modern/ semi modern cars, the pedals are not spaced for proper heel-toe shifting. Most are now placed for more of a side step technique. This is when you use the brake with the ball and inner half of your right foot, when you are ready to rev match and downshift, you roll your foot toward the outside and shoudl come in contact with the gas pedal. I've found that if done properly, this makes rev matching much easier than trying to completely turn your foot and heel-toe. It will definately take some getting used to and some practice to learn when to apply the throttle and with how much pressure, but when mastered, this technique will help improve your cornering speeds as well as car control.

That's the way I've found it to be easiest to do as well, although you may run into problems during very heavy braking with your foot coming into contact with the gas pedal when you don't want it to.

The technique also makes the ride more pleasant for the passenger as downshifts are smoother and less obtrusive.

You're right--I've already got mine all the way extended--forgot about that. Still wish it could be a bit closer though. Maybe not NASCAR close, but with my seating position it's still not getting my arms at a good ninety-degree angle.

We discussed heel and toe techniques in this thread here too.

I remember when i first started heel/toe downshifting--I was so confused because I was trying to actually do as I had seen in the diagrams--heel on pedal, toe on brake. Thank god no one was ever behind me during those times... :o

Has anyone been to a DE event? Do they teach any shifting techniques there?

Principles of Race Car Driving-Jim Russell.
lots of tips on proper driving techniques that can
be used on the road. I defy anyone to ever catch me shuffling the
steering wheel.