Who HASN'T done the IMS Retrofit (and why not)?

[cvhs18472]

Early 98 Tip with 75K on the clock. Got it 6 years ago with 24K on the clock. I change the oil about every 4K, do all the fluids at correct intervals and enjoy the h*ll out of the car. As others have said, when I first got the car this forum scared the daylights out of me, but now I drive it, maintain it and don't worry.

[SeanZ4]

Same as everyone else here... 2000S w/41k. Change the oil once a year with usually around 1000 mi. on it. My clutch makes a dreadful squeeeeak noise every time I depress it. I've heard different ideas as to why. A dry something-or-other?? It's coming from inside the trans., not the interior of the car. When it gets bad enough I'll replace the clutch and then probably do the LN upgrade. When I bought the car 4 years ago, just like everyone else...this forum scared me with all the ims chatter. I decided to just enjoy the car and not worry about something that most likely will not happen. I've vowed to start driving the car more. Starting with today I drove it to work. Maybe that pesky clutch squeak will work itself out??

[MWH]

I'm new to the forum as I'm doing research for a possible Boxster purchase in the fall. I've found alot of information regarding this IMS issue. I've spoken with Porsche mechanics in my area as well...My impressions are the defect or whatever you want to call it is real...

I counted 43 listed engine failures on another forum. While many weren't diagnosed because of the cost of teardowns they displayed they same characteristics of an IMS failure...

I really like the Boxster and if I do get one this fall I see a IMS guardian or upgraded bearing as part of the cost.

[springer123]

Seems like a lot of money to spend for something that might happen. Also, the replacement bearings are starting to see some failures. Nothing is guaranteed. I think I will wait until metal particles are found in the oil filter, if ever, and just enjoy driving it.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by madmods

Haha sport cars huh!

1) I don't fix what's not broken
2) I don't normally get easily influenced by those in the business of changing parts
3) I follow official reports and figures - in this case they are very low, or still non-existent
4) I couldn't care less even if the car itself would blow up, I'd get another one tomorrow
5) A car is for driving, and life is for living

+1 for Madmods.

The only thing I'd add is that if my IMSB has lasted 104,000 miles, then its likely to last quite a bit longer. My theory is to redline often to splash some fresh oil into the failed IMSB seal!

[thstone]

Originally Posted by MWH

I'm new to the forum as I'm doing research for a possible Boxster purchase in the fall. I've found alot of information regarding this IMS issue. I've spoken with Porsche mechanics in my area as well...My impressions are the defect or whatever you want to call it is real...

I counted 43 listed engine failures on another forum. While many weren't diagnosed because of the cost of teardowns they displayed they same characteristics of an IMS failure...

I really like the Boxster and if I do get one this fall I see a IMS guardian or upgraded bearing as part of the cost.

Remember that there have been over 200,000 Boxsters sold...

[pothole]

I absolutely do not doubt that the IMS bearing is weak point of these engines.

But equally, it's far from clear how frequently they fail. Nor is it clear ow reliable the replacement bearings are. Compared to the original bearings, the installed base on "upgraded" bearings is very young and very tiny.

Moreover, I get the impression that the original bearings tend to go at relatively low miles. With my car now on 100,000 miles, I'm going to assume I've got one of the good bearings. It clearly isn't one of the really bad ones.

2.5s are now so cheap in the UK, it almost makes more sense to just drive it till it breaks, sell it as a rolling chassis and buy another.

[landrovered]

98 2.5 has 115k miles, a little late to start worrying...

My 3.6 has just over 50k and I am going to do the Pelican IMS Kit when it becomes available and I rebuild my gearbox. I am 99.9% sure I will be pulling a perfectly good bearing out and replacing it but while I am inches from it it makes sense to do it anyway. If my gearbox did not need rebuilding I would wait at least another year since the engine was just put in the car less than 20k miles ago.

[amschnellsten]

I just can not justify the time to replace it unless I am going to do the clutch. My car has around 120k on the clock and by it's looks it has been driven hard. I am going to keep up the abuse day after day to make sure I am safe.

Boxsters were meant to be driven and driven hard and it seems to be that most of the failures are in lower mileage pampered cars. People seem to believe that the upgrade is the cure all and that is simply not true.

[feelyx]

I haven't replaced mine either. I just don't believe anyone has the correct solution to the problem.... yet.

[fivepointnine]

well I have my old bearing sitting next to me, just picked up my car today. The bearing spins way more freely than it should and wobbles if you wiggle the shaft. 66k on it.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by spongebob

Not until my IMS guardian tells me to..

Now I like that one! Would make a great poster!

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by madmods

Haha sport cars huh!
1) I don't fix what's not broken
!

Boxster 986 Complete Suspension Overhaul

And all this time I thought you were like me...fix EVERYTHING that is not broken...because it is fun! Just messin with you.

Oh and I'll be giving an update to that thread...since I to developed suspension overhaul fever.

And yes I DID change out my perfectly good IMS double row

[Dave S.]

I haven't upgraded the IMSB in my 2003 S (24k miles). Seems spending $3K + on an insurance policy that you don't know if you need seems pretty steep on a $20,000 car.
If it fails, I'll either sell the dead carcass for a few thousand and never buy another Porsche again, or maybe take advantage of the situation and try to find someone with experience installing a 3.8L 997S engine into it and make it a rocket.
If I ever have the transmission out and am replacing the clutch, I would probably do the IMSB for good measure, just not willing to spend that much for nothing in hope that I'm fixing a problem.

[rdc8118]

I've got a 99 boxster with two major accidents under it's belt.
Resale values on old boxsters are low and mine's even lower. If i needed a clutch then I'd spend the extra cash and replace it. For now I'll just do frequent checks on the oil filter with a high power magnet (I pulled out of an old hard drive).

[amschnellsten]

^ I like the hard drive magnet idea. Brilliant.

[vijen6]

My 2c .. copied and pasted from another thread ..

Common wisdom on this board for new owners is do the IMS .. its cheap insurance.

I had a IMS scare about a month ago when my water pump went and I thought it was IMS, but after fixing the water pump, it made me really think about getting the fix done.

Here's my take on that ... this is mostly personal opinion with some math .. so make your own conclusion.

First, some estimated cost.

Cost of the IMS upgrade ( parts + labor ) ~= $1500 if done at my local shop.

Cost of a newly used engine installed ( parts + labor ) ~= $9000 based on ebay prices.

Cost of a new reman 3.6 engine installed with warranty ( parts + labor ) = $16500 ( from Roock )

Second, I assume that IMS fail in 1 out of 10 cars ( correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading somewhere that this was Flat6's ratio ). This gives you a 10% chance of failure.

Third, I assume that there are no fortune tellers among us and no one knows exactly when their IMS will give out. If you just know for sure you're one of the unlucky ones, then by all mean, get your IMS done.

...

To make 'insurance' worth buying .. it has to give me better odds of saving $ than if I didn't buy it. In another word, a $1500 insurance for a part that has a 10% failure rate only starts to make sense if the cost to fix when the part fails is over $15000. In this case, it is not. If your IMS goes, restoring your car to "as good as before" with a used engine cost $9000. That's gives you about a 1 / 6 ratio of IMS upgrade cost to potential saving in case of engine failure .. about 16%.

In another word, you're pre-paying 16% of the repair cost to guard against a 10% chance of failure.

So for me .. mathematically .. it only makes sense to do IMS upgrade when you can reduce the labor cost. Such as when you're already doing something in that area already so you can save on labor .. like changing clutch.

Doing IMS upgrade for the sake of IMS upgrade is not the best way to spend your money.

[ckkrause]

Vijen6-

I am new to Boxsters, but the Boxster I just purchased, (to build into a Spec Boxster race car), is the 10th or 11th Porsche I've owned over the last 25 years. I don't know why, but Porsche owners always seem to assume the worse, (and seem to have lots of disposable income!), and will do whatever upgrade is the latest and greatest... It was tensioners in early 911's, 20K belt changes in 944's, Cylinder head seals in 964's... and in Boxsters.. IMS's... I've owned all of the above cars+, not done a single one of the must do "upgrades" and have never been caught out... as long as I've done the normal scheduled maintenance. I believe Porsches should be driven hard and put away wet.... They seem to thrive under hard usage...

With respect to the logic in the copied post:

•10% failure rate appears way off... more like 1-3%

•Used motors, at least for early cars are around $2500-3500+perhaps $1K install ,

Although I agree with the conclusion... Don't bother unless you're in their and doing it your self....

My $0.02

-CKKrause

[vijen6]

Agreed CK. I thought the 10% number was a bit high but like I said it stuck in my mind reading it somewhere as LN's estimate numbers. IMO LN's site language is a bit of a scare tactic to sell more parts / service .. simply smart business.

And also the $9k engine replacement number is assuming a $6K used S engine on eBay + install rate @ my indi. Your rates may vary if you can get a deal on engine or doing labor yourself.

On a slightly off topic, I'm running LN's oil filter and my indi mechanic has been nudging at me to go back to stock. Maybe separate thread for oil filters ? LOL

[kls]

Finally, mathematics that justify my personal logic! Viken6 put it better than I've seen, and it casts doubt on the often used phrase "cheap insurance."