Entry-level Porsche (identical to Boxster but cheaper) put on hold
 

We Hear: Porsche Worried About Entry-Level Roadster, May Shelve - WOT on Motor Trend

"the 550 successor was originally slated to arrive some time in 2014, slotting beneath the Boxster and acting as the entry-level model."

They're putting it on hold for now, but it's based on the Volkswagen BlueSport concept which sounds exactly like the Boxster and looks very similar
2013 Volkswagen BlueSport Roadster Review and Prices - Consumer Guide Automotive

mid-engine
2-seater convertible
6-speed
~2,645 lbs
2.0 turbodiesel or 2.0 turbo
0-60 in 6.2 and 50mpg highway with turbodiesel

price: estimated 23-26k

The BlueSport is also on hold, but I was just wondering what you guys thought of this, Volkswagen planning a Boxster clone and Porsche making a less expensive "Boxster"?

the sub-boxster / 550 / bluesport that was on, then off... well it's back on... someday.

Porsche CEO Mueller: Sub-Boxster 550 Spyder Still On The Table

The main concern isn't the car's performance or the brand's technical ability to produce it--instead, it's a matter of brand image. If there's "any risk" the brand could be harmed by a lower-priced, entry-level roadster, says Mueller, it will be postponed to a later date.

If it does appear, I doubt it will have a naturally aspirated flat six, which it what it needs to catch my interest. Flat fours are nice enough, but they're just not as delightful as flat sixes. And turbo charging just does crappy things to the response and engine note.

A flat four might even be in doubt if it has to share a great deal of its engineering with VW. The VW version will almost definitely be transverse in-line four which is rather different from longitudinal flat four.

Done right with a flat six, it could be spectacular - probably would be similar to an early 986. But I can't see it happening that way.

it might boost the image of the Boxster though................

..........Or not.

Not actually dead, as it turns out.

Deep Dive: The Porsche 550 Revival Lives - Automobile Magazine

Only if this car comes in at Miata-type weight (2400-2500 pounds) is it worth considering.

Lots of problems with launching a new car into this segment, namely;

1. Miata. The Miata owns the inexpensive roadster market and there is a new model already on the way.

2. Audi TT. Porsche has to worry about cannibalizing TT sales.

3. Nissan Z. The Z has more power and performance. Yes, the Porsche name carries a premium but ...

4. Porsche 924. A lot of people will associate the 551 with the infamy of Porsche's last attempt to create an inexpensive entry-level car and stay away.

5. Branding. Does Porsche really want think of any Porsche as "entry level"? That is what BMW's are for. :D

Thus, Porsche would actually have to deliver a better car than the competition at the same price point and this simply isn't Porsche's forte - and especially not when they are focused on selling $80,000 trucks to soccer moms, $100,000 sedans to Chinese businessmen, and $120,000+ varients of the new 991.

This will dilute the brand. I'm sorry they want to follow BMW's business model. BMW used to be exclusive and high-end. Now, thanks to entry level BMWs, they're everywhere. What used to be a nice car that you worked and saved to achieve is now something I probably see fifty of every day when I commute to and from work. Here's hoping Porsche eventually abandons the entry-level.

There are two trucks and a huge sedan in Porsche's lineup now. Clearly, dilution isn't a concern to Porsche as the diluters are the cars that they actually make money on

Having said that, I totally disagree that a small true sports car would do anything but improve the portfolio. There's always been entry level Porsches. 914, 912, 924, 944 and the original Boxster were all compeditors with the entry level contemporaries. The Boxster has bloated into a GT that is just an artificial step below the 911. If anything, Porsche abandoned the entry level with the 986.2 and 987. With a real sports car, Porsche could bring the brand a car more true to the marque's heritage. If it's the buyer's goal to achieve exclusivity through purchasing a Porsche, they are already fooling themselves.

.

I was speaking to the exclusivity of the brand, not of the people who drive them (people can't be exclusive). Perhaps the persona of the brand would have been more to my point. If Porsche wants to stay a luxury brand, then bringing out a $25,000 version will take away from that. If Omega wanted to sell more watches and have them become commonplace, they would make some that cost less than $3,000.

I was wrong about the Porsche SUV diluting the brand, so it's very possible I'm wrong about the Baby Boxster. In fact, I have a friend who has had a Cayenne for four years and she loves the thing. It's everything she wanted in a daily driver. She'll replace it with a second one when the time comes.

*edit*

I agree with you about the size of the Boxster, by the way. True crow-eating will be when I buy the smaller Boxster a few years from now. I'll be sure to say goodbye as I move to whatever owners forum comes into existence for it. ;-)

Omega makes lots of watches for between $1500-$2000

but anyway............they are coming out with alot of models lately!

I think this will happen and here's why. A new Boxster S with all the goodies my car has as options (forget about the alacantra seats just options) PSE, PDK sport chrono, etc would list for more than 70K. Given the upward movement of entry level a lower less powerful segment is being created.

good point....a Boxster is far from entry level anymore! heck, my 02 S had a sticker of 59k!

The vw roadster looks a lot like the new boxster, only smaller.
 

There will probably be some cross pollination with it and a new Porshe model, much like the cayenne and vw suv. The new Boxster looks a lot like an old NSX I saw recently, much to my surprise.

"and acting as the entry-level model."


^ This is total crap. "entry-level" cars are for sedan builiders. Porsche, at least it used to be, is a sports car company. Each model has its purpose. If you want an uncomprised drop top you buy a Boxster (sorry Cabriolet), if you wat a tool for the track that is impractical everywhere else you buy a GT3, If you don't want pendulus cornering in your coupe you get a Cayman. Also, If you want "entry" into Porsche you can buy an old 911 or 944 any day of the week and save yourself a $500 monthly payment and in the end you'll spend a boat load less than making that last payment on new from the dealer Porsche.. If you buy an old 996 you can actually get a relibale car that won't cost you an arm and a leg for an engine rebuild.

The car media really needs to confine "entry-level" to companies like Mercedes, BMS and Jaguar. Or at the very minimum apply this term to a mini-Cayenne or or mini-Panamera since these aren't in the same realm as Boxsters, Caymans and Carreras.

944 is getting a little old, the maintenance on that engine blows, the long throw shift linkage is vague and gets worse as it ages. Air conditioning = useless, huge rear window acts like greenhouse and finally the engine counter balancers are eh OK, motor sound sucks, all in all I'd take an older 986 for the same coin.

AND unless you have your foot through the injectors all the time and the engine screaming, Cobalt SS and worse are going to blow by you anywhere but at highway speed on a highway. 0-60= a small coffee.

I LOVE 944s. As I have said before, I like them more than the 986 from a man-connected-to-machine experience. More road feel, more steering feel, you actually sit low in the car, and it's built like a tank.

It's built great but it's an old design, the hats, rollers seals and other items to chase after make repairs expensive at least as much or more than a 986. You won't be changing the belts from reading threads, that will be an expensive trip to the dealer. I had one, for a long time and loved it so I know what you're saying but I would not buy one in 2012.

Exactly why Porsche should build a new entry level car.

I would buy a 944 in 2012, BTW. Age doesn't scare me, my Rx-7 is 31 years old, I've been driving it for 25 of those and can't wait to drive it every time I get the chance.

I'd buy a 944 in a heartbeat...
 

always has been one of my favorite cars from that time period. If you do your own work you can live with one but it will take alot of work to get most of them sorted out. As far as the new "baby boxster" I hope it comes to market. Those complaining about brand dilution are buying porsches for the wrong reasons it seems in the first place. Yeah...exclusivity is nice but I have always appreciated the unorthodox way porsche has gone about building their cars (flat engines, air cooling, rear/mid engined, evolutionary styling, etc) more than anything. The new car will not sell at the same price point as a miata....expect it to be 8-10k above the price of a miata (mid 30's at least). Porsche would like to steal some of the miata's market share but they are not going to price their car's identically, the brand name alone will cause some people to stretch their budget more to purchase the porsche if it is a solid car. BMW has been producing relatively affordable cars for years (2002...3 series) so there is no reason porsche cannot do it as well. I do not think the appeal of the BMW brand has lessened that much and if anything it brings new people into the fold that eventually upgrade to larger and more expensive models.

??? Do you really see a big enough quantitative difference between a 2002 and 2003 986 to warrant moving the latter into the "bloated GT category?" Seriously?

Weight and price. BTW, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a GT. It's actually what most people want when they think they want a sports car. But there's significant weight differences between the first 2.5s and the last 986s.

I happen to think I sit quite low in the Boxster...the steering wheel top is just below my eye level, and I'm well within the confines of the roll hoops...but I'm also 5'7". :rolleyes::o Just had to say something there to give you a hard time, blue. :dance:

Looking at it overall and where I'm (disappointedly) seeing Porsche go under the rule of VAG, the "entry-level" car doesn't need to exist. Porsche was built on racing heritage and prided itself on exclusivity and building a premium driving machine (I respect the M1 (NOT the 1M) and the M3, but BMW can stuff it), not just trying to get everyone within shouting distance to have a car with the Stuttgart crest on the hood. Sure, get them thinking about it, wishing for it, saving for it, and drooling over it outside the showroom glass, but don't start tossing out the equivalent of a VW Cabrio like hotcakes. This isn't a Scion tC we're talking about.

I happen to think the Boxster is quite entry-level, and always has been...it's your gateway vehicle into what is anticipated, by both the owner and the company, to become a long-time relationship and an eventual upgrade to one of the many variants of the flagship car. Yes, it's grown in girth/mass/weight as much as in sophistication, as do all cars that start out as raw, fun machines (RX-7, Celica Supra, etc.), but the base model is now putting out what the Boxster S was for horsepower 12 years ago...all with only a starting price increase of about $10k over a period of 15 years...if you ask me that's not bad for what's supposed to be a premium sports car (and yes, the Boxster started at $40k back in 1997) meant to get your feet wet in the world of Porsche and let you see what a performance oriented car can do. Yeah, it's no GT3, but it's still excellent fun to toss around and rewarding when you get it right...and you can comfortably drive it right back home when you're done.

As I've said before in a few different ways, when I think sports car, you can keep the radio, power everything, faux wood grain, and shiny accents and blah-blah-blah...all I want is a steering wheel, pedals, a manual shifter, the important gauges, plenty of horsepower to move a lightweight and well-sprung setup, and a place to plant my behind where all those things are within reach...you make me that, I'll buy it and thoroughly enjoy it and get my money's worth.

And it doesn't need to cost less than $40k...on the contrary, $40k plus keeps everyone else from having the same one, too.

you basically just described a Lotus Elise........

:D Indeed, or the 1st gen Esprit.

Neither of which is easily had stateside anymore unless you get a used Elise. But if I were to buy an Elise, I'd be doing so with the intention of having a fairly streetable track car, as opposed to a trackable streetcar in the Boxster. Either way, if I'm going to buy a car like that, it's with that intent of having a straight up sports car, and not because I want them to add leather, a subwoofer, and a cupholder every six inches of interior space.

Porsche kind of stopped making cars resembling that sports car image a while ago, I'm realizing, but the introduction of the 986 really seems to be the end of that period. Anything after that has started to lose the whole pure sports car thing and catered to people looking for a status symbol to flaunt at the workplace and garage otherwise, unless it's a 911/Carrera with a "GT", and possibly a number following, in its name.

And even then, who really drives the piss out of their Carerra GT besides that guy with the Gemballa one that cracked it up?

A used 986 is the entry level Porsche for water-cooled boxers.
 

If you want to enter the contemporary Porsche car market a used 986 will do. It gives you a lot of bang for the buck if you find a good one. Plus the platform allows you to upgrade the motor and with the mid engine design gives you an uncanny feel of thenroad. The ims problems have made the boxster a very affordable car in this current market. And because they cranked out a lot of them the price point is ridiculous right now. You can buy one with a blown motor for peanuts. I bought a 98 boxster about 8 months ago with a factory hardtop and have put over 45k on it with just regular maintenance and a ball joint. Most people think my car is worth between 30 and 40k. If you want something you can upgrade and stay pretty much current with a liquid boxer motor an early 986 or 996 provide the ultimate Pcar platform for peanuts. Add some litronic headlights and 18" rims and your driving a solid Looking car. Who knows maybe one people will clue in and you won't be able to get into a 986 or 996 so easily. I bought a mint 928 once in the late 90s for $7500 and that car today is probably worth 20k. It couldn't be a better time to drive a Porsche when you can pick up the late 90s models for chump change.

Sorry I call BS on Porsche 986 being the end of Porsche sports cars, my car is everything you described including lacking in cup holders. Simply stated it would tear the door skins right off my 986 as it passed and left it for dead.

PS You can't drive the piss out of it or you would never be below triple digits

I do have to retract my statement to a point, Ghost, because I agree with you and simply overlooked the Spyder in my thought process. Fully agree with you that that is, indeed, a pretty much bare bones, no frills sports car (even if it does have the 987 styling), and even gets back down close to the weight of the early 986, and that's what I like about it. Definitely not a year-round, non-sunny day car, unfortunately, but that's about the only gig against it besides it not looking like a 986 :p . Low production numbers, fairly high price, and therefore, some exclusivity. That said, the Boxster Spyder is the exception rather than the rule these days at Porsche, and I don't think that's right. They could have also made something like that back when the 986 came around, but oh no, can't unseat the flagship. :rolleyes: Cars like that, or the Cayman R, are the kinds of things the company did normally to make a name and distinction for the brand. I'm not as old as some folks who got to be behind the wheel when SCs and Targas made their debuts...my car drooling days started in the mid-80s and went onward (959 anyone :D ).

Maybe Panamera and Cayenne sales allow us to have things like that without astronomical pricetags, but it's really hurting the company's image for me, and if only offering legit sports cars means no Porsche will cost less than 6 figures, then so be it, I have to start figuring out a way to save for one that I want over a period of X years. Exclusivity, something that people know you paid for because it does something you want, like just be a damn fast and good handling car.

To your second point, isn't that what racetracks are for? And aren't those what sports cars, exotics, and supercars were meant to drive on at their upper limits? You don't put 200mph on a speedometer if the car can never really get anywhere near there. And to be clear, I wasn't saying drive it that way 24/7, but I don't see the guys with Carrera GTs sticking a GoPro on their windshield and putting a video of them flying around VIR on YouTube ever summer. I would if I had one. I want my money's worth. ;)

OD relative to the other manufacturers Porsche can still claim some accolades on their vehicle weight. Sure the new 911 cab in Excellence is almost 3200, yet the other manufacturers are even higher in weight. When you have to meet impact requirements and every new car toting multiple air bags, it's easy to get model bloat. I don't disagree with your premise which is exactly why I bought the Spyder.

In an unrelated story, Art Monk just made college football HOF. He was the most famous patient I ever had and I had his X on an x-ray request. I wonder if it would be worth anything today?

If I were to ever buy a 987, it would only be the spyder. But it's still 65 pounds heavier than my 986S was and I had a hood over my gauge cluster.

A faster car doesn't make a sports car. Everything from Aston Martin is fast and very capable, but there isn't a sports car in their line up.

Just compare everything you think of to a Miata and it will tell you if it's a sports car or not.

The Spyder would take the soul of your S and make the car eat it raw, then laugh at your silly hood hat, it's an effing rocketship! Unmodified 986 S= loss to Spyder all other factors being equal.

That's nice.

Just telling you straight up not trying to be a dick but the 986S will not beat a spyder without mods.

zerotosixty.com

2011 Porsche Boxster S Spyder 0-60 mph 4.2 Quarter Mile 12.7

2003 Porsche Boxster S 0-60 mph 5.0 Quarter mile 13.6

I don't subscribe to this being a good measure of a sports car but to say the 987 handles poorly especially the Spyder is nonsense too

Performance numbers have little to do with how much fun a car is to drive.

If you can find that I mentioned anywhere that the Spyder or any other Boxster handles poorly, I will paypal you $1000.

This is so funny -- deja vu all over again, as they say.

I've owned Miatas since 94, been a regular on Miata.net since 2000. One of the most oft-repeated thread topics is "has the Miata morphed into an overweight pig?" It started at 2170-ish pounds for a 1990 stripper, and a current power hardtop NC model weighs a little more than 2500 pounds all in. To the Miata crowd your 97 2.5 weighs about 400 pounds too much to be a sportscar. To the Elise crowd a 1990 NA Miata weighs about 200 pounds too much to be a sportscar. To the Midget or Sprite or Spitfire crowd an Elise weighs about 300 pounds too much to be a sportscar. :rolleyes: Let me tell you, it gets old.

Sure, I could go with a definition of "sportscar" that says the Boxster is too heavy and civilized to be a sportscar (though I would disagree.) But to split hairs and say a 986 2.5 somehow makes the cut, but the extra 100 pounds of a 986.2 with its decadent glass rear window and functional quarter-pound cup-holder assembly now fails to make the grade... laughably pathetic.

^^^^I know what I read but what I kept thinking was "Stripper from 1990 named Miata"...and now I can't stop cracking up...

It's all a bunch of opinions here. I think most of us understand that. Try to keep it respectful nogabiker.

And I'm not saying a cup-holder adds weight, NoGa, one can't be that anal about things. My issue is with putting things like that in a car that I honestly feel doesn't need it (just my opinion, not claiming my word is law) and basically making it appeal to people who want to drive their Tiptronic 911 while they guzzle their morning slew of coffee bombing down the highway. To me, a sports car doesn't have the little niceties in it like that. I don't need a radio, I like my engine's sound just fine. I don't need fancy accents and materials on the inside, and I don't need a place to hold the drink I'm not going to be drinking because I'll be too busy driving the car...nevermind that with a car that does have a rather nice interior in it, including electronics, I don't want my morning cup o' joe to go spilling all over the place. The complete lack of a drink, and a place to put it, keeps this from happening.

I've gotten used to having cup holders in my Corolla, and sure, I use them...they're also low enough in the car that they're very unlikely to spill. When it comes to the Boxster, I know I'm not going to be carrying any accessible drinks, so I simply plan accordingly. Even if this car were my daily driver, I could live without them.

I have found that the combination of the front seat adjustment lever, lower seat bolster for the left leg on the passenger seat, and the passenger side of the center console make for a great bottled water holder, though, and without the need to shove it in place. It only dislodged from there once when I really had to jam on the brakes.

I definitely understand the need for more safety and just the eventuality that these things, be they more frame material, a dozen airbags, whatever, are going ot fatten up our cars, but other things aren't being done to keep the weight in check elsewhere, or power increased and tuning done to compensate for the difference depending on whether you're looking for efficiency or performance. Making a big deal of the 981's weight drop is just fluff to me, because I'm sure they could be doing more to drop weight in the car and maybe even squeeze a few more mpg out of the car to keep the finger-waggers quiet...win-win.

Getting a bit back onto the topic, I just don't see why there needs to be a car below the Boxster in the Porsche family. Just let VW make their little mid-engine car with their mainstay 2.0T engine and reap the benefits...I really doubt it's going to hurt the Boxster's sales that much. There doesn't need to be a Porsche equivalent, and no car at Porsche needs to cost less than $50k in today's dollars. Porsche does not need to become a Chevy clone to survive. They're already badge engineering the Cayenne, let's just leave it at that.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
 

Should you take into account the weight of your typical passenger when considering if it is a sports car or not, does the extra weight of a painted console or glass rear window make a real difference in the performance of the car...what about the size of the coin holder....is $4 in quarters going to disqualify it from being a sportscar? As I see it, the difference in weight between an early 986 and later model is pretty small and is much about options order than anything else. Even a 987 is not all that much heavier than the earlier cars.

Given the direction that the 981 and 991 seem to be going, (a bad one) the Boxster Spyder may well be the best modern roadster that was ever made by Porsche. For one thing its still got direct lineage to the simplest, lightest, most driver-oriented Boxster, the original 986.
OTOH, If a 981 RS is launched it will be faster but the developments like electronic steering will take away driver involvement to compensate for a higher powered car. The more power they put into the 981 series the less involvement the driver will have to make those N-ring lap times look as brochure worthy as possible. That's why Porsche enthusiasts justifiably whine that the cars are getting less driver oriented. More power and faster lap times means the car must do more of the work and keep the driver out of the trees.

And the fact that the Boxster Spyder (TC Kline), without any engine or major suspension work, is lapping Laguna at 1:42, faster than prepared 997 GT3s by over a second, (and nearly 4 seconds over a CaymanS) tells me your claim of eating other Boxsters whole is not just trash talk.

all this initial "the Boxster Spyder is just a gimick to sell you less car for more money" has been utterly debunked at the track. Porsche are very wisely ending this design before any more rear-engined cars are further embarrased.