Overdrive, I'm not criticizing your preference for the earlier 986 - they are great cars and indeed, great sports cars. Frankly, I even share your preference for the original look - including the more interesting (or at least, less generic) dash and interior design. Having said that, I'm sure you'll agree that appearance has little, if anything, to do with what makes a car a 'sports car'.

Unlike many here, and while acknowledging that I haven't driven one, I quite like the new Boxster. Sure, I find the interior design rather dull and I am not crazy about the tail light dividing, chrome-tipped spoiler. However, while it does not draw upon past elements of historic Porsches in the same way the original did (and it doesn't have to), it nevertheless is an aggressive, but clean design. Performance? There in spades - and quite frankly, the improvements in fuel economy despite the increase in size, weight and horsepower are also very impressive.

I think that Porsche is also deserving of credit for replacing various body parts that were originally steel with aluminum. Doesn't that still sound like a company that is interested in engineering sports cars? Yes, it is larger, but the increased size also allows the car to comfortably accomodate larger drivers than the original 986 and the longer wheelbase actually improves vehicle dynamics by reducing dive and squat. The electric power steering? We'll see, although I can recall similar criticisms when Porsche went from manual steering to hydraulic assist.

In the final analysis, the car is a testimonial to Porsche's improved production efficiences as it is actually cheaper, considering inflation, that the original 986. To me the foregoing all suggest that there is reason for optimism about a new entry-level, mid-engined Porsche. That a down-sized, less luxurious, lighter and more simple car produced by Porsche in this day and age could prove to be a real winner - and probably a lot closer to your idea of what makes a real sports car.

Brad

It amazes me how so many people
 

have talked about how the 981 is a step in the wrong direction and is bloated, GT, too complex, etc...it hasn't even hit the streets yet....let me remind you "YOU HAVE NEVER DRIVEN ONE" so how can you assume so confidently how it is going to be a failure and pail in comparison to the 986. As far as the baby boxster....I think it has the possiblity to be an amazing car....probably more like the "pure drivers porsches" of years past that everyone complains are gone than anything they have built in quite a while. If they sell well and you see one every day on your way to work does it really diminish the driving enjoyment you get from your car, or does it really just make you seem a little more ordinary as you are only driving a 986. Bring on the baby boxster!

Most of the discourse in this thread is about opinion and personal definitions. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone else on what the definitions are and that's a good thing. Exchanging ideas and viewpoints are the most important thing.

Making it personal or criticizing someone else’s opinion or trying to make the entire discourse something that it's not is totally pointless and a waste of your time, don’t bother. If someone doesn't like that a few people can get on a board and needlessly argue about the minutia of a definition of a word, that's fine too. What's the point of getting upset about it? Or even commenting on it.

GR310 and I have had this conversation before, we will again and maybe some day we’ll do it over a couple of beers. I respect his opinion and I hope he does the same of mine (and I did notice that when it got a little heated, he decided against making it personal. I respect that too). In the end we’re a bunch of car nuts having fun talking about the cars.

So anyone who was offended by our conversation, take it for what it is and maybe don't treat it so seriously.

I agree with that blue and for the record I think the base 2.5 986 is still a awesome ride, looks performance and uniqueness on the road and has a sound above 4K that rivals all models.

Agreed that it has little to do with how the car performs (unless they shape it like a brick :rolleyes: ), but it does have an emotional significance, I'm sure you'll understand and agree with that, and clearly people can be very emotional when it comes to cars (*cough* this thread *cough* ;) ). It doesn't make the car faster or slower, but it does factor into people's decisions at times of whether or not to get a car, whether it performs or not ("Miata = chick car, therefore I will not buy it, fun as it can be" type of mentality, know what I mean?). So while I can appreciate what the new Boxster can do perfomance-wise, I'm just not really feeling the design anymore. Yes, it's new and shiny, but it doesn't stir me like the 986/996 design language and the more classic examples of 911s does. Maybe it'll grow on me, but right now I don't care for it, and it disappoints me that when I look at it I think Carrera GT wannabe and MR-2-looking...I'm not supposed to think those things with a car like this. And that's just me. Clearly others enjoyed the 987 update, and enjoy the 981 look of now. It won't stop me from test driving one so I can see/feel it for myself, but it's not making me want one...I just want its mechanical bits so I can put them in the 986. :D Whether any car is fast and well-performing or not, I want it to look good, and most car enthusiasts desire that, too. It's not the only thing, but it is an important thing. A 500 Abarth doesn't exude sports car when you look at it, even if it does act like a chubby go-kart when you turn the wheel and plant your foot. You know what it can do, but it still looks like a jelly bean.

Again, I'll agree that it looks more aggressive and has clean, straight lines...maybe that's what bugs me about it, that it seems almost too cleaned up. True that it doesn't have to pull from previous design language, but for a company that's very much into its heritage, why wouldn't you? Technically they are doing so by going al Carrera GT with it, but that's not exactly the car I feel a Boxster is following in the footsteps of.

No disputes on performance. As I said, base cars now are sitting on early S model power, and that's not a bad thing. Yes, going with things like aluminum and axing the clamshell attempting to optimize weight and mechanics does sound like a car company that is interested in engineering sports cars, but for me the end product does not come off that way.

As for larger drivers, and not meant to offend anyone, but not every car is going to fit everybody, or every body. Me, I say get over it/deal, because I run into the same problem with cars like Corvettes, Camaros, and most any decent size American car that seems to be made for no one below 6 feet tall or without two sets of knees. I find myself sliding the seat up too uncomfortably close to the steering wheel just to be able to send the clutch pedal to the floorboard and hoping that there's a height adjustment for the seat so I'm not staring at the stitching on the steering wheel when I tilt the seatback away to give myself some room between the wheel and myself. It might just mean that I won't be able to buy one of them despite desiring one...so be it.

I think an increase of $10k in starting price over a decade and a half is commendable for this caliber of car, and I've said so. It also is just expensive enough that people won't be coming in droves to buy one, and I think that's ok. Porsche should too. I don't think they should be trying to land a Porsche in every driveway, at least not by trying to make a car model for every type of person out there. I fully hope that Porsche proves my skepticism to be false and does it right if they do decide to make this smaller, cheaper entry-level car. Until such time, I'll hang onto my concerns about the VAG influence on the company now that they have a full grip on it. VW put forth an effort to drop the cost on the Jetta, and the result came off very cheap in quality and compromising on things just to make a cost goal. Perhaps that was the tactic in the end, to make the base so unappealing that most people avoided it and went for a higher model of the Jetta, with only the cheapest of the cheap, or those just looking for a car to do the point-a-to-point-b thing, to get the base.

I fear that the same sort of thing would happen with an entry-level Porsche, though. You come to expect certain things from a company that makes premium cars, and cost-cutting tactics tend to diminish that, as we saw even with some of the complaints that came with the Boxster and how it was able to ring in where it did on the price scale for so long. Granted, this was usually coming from people who were expecting a "911 lite" out of the Boxster, but is that not what we're expecting when we're calling this new car the "baby Boxster"?

Things like the Cayenne and Panamera do not appeal to me, and while they're not anything entry-level by any means, I maintain that they shouldn't exist. Seeing as those are two of the more recent things to emerge from Porsches engineering, it makes me concerned about them making something that's supposed to be small, efficient, cheap, hopefully sporty, and a good-looking vehicle. I really do hope they beat my odds and prove me wrong, because it's a case where I don't want to be right.