maf and throttle body diameter

[ppbon]

Originally Posted by jacabean

Pedros setup is nice but the cost is as much as the IPD set up. i guess your best bet is to put the parts together yourself.

... a full ECU tune.
If you look at my kit and add up the cost of the parts you'll se that it's what you pay for at Suncoast or any other Dealer.
Thanks for ripping me off guys!
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by ppbon

... a full ECU tune.
If you look at my kit and add up the cost of the parts you'll se that it's what you pay for at Suncoast or any other Dealer.
Thanks for ripping me off guys!
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Do you really think you're getting ripped off? I just want to get a sense of how serious you are before writing more.

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by ppbon

... a full ECU tune.
If you look at my kit and add up the cost of the parts you'll se that it's what you pay for at Suncoast or any other Dealer.
Thanks for ripping me off guys!
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Really?

When I suggested the 997 plenum I was not aware of your T3 kit. Have a look at the beginning of the thread. The idea came from wanting to try a larger throttle body as is used on the IPD product. The 997 plenum was a natural step.

Sometimes others think of the same things you do; it's happened to me many times. Some like to work out problems and develop their own stuff. Keep in mind that as Canadians buying kits and components is frot with customs, duties, taxes and shipping problems; sometimes you get fed-up and want to just do it yourself if you can.

Your kit came to light later, and looks great. It looks like you have it all dialed in. Some may disagree with the design and that is their prerogative. Of course a dedicated tune will be of significant value. Keep up the great development work.

I would think you are getting some free advertising rather than being ripped off

[ppbon]

I'm saying that your ripping me off when you imply that putting a bigger tee and throttle body together will be the same and cheaper than my kits (which include a full ECU remap, a new e-gas TB a new technoTorque3 and complete plumbing including silicone fittings and hardware).
I have nothing against hacking and being creative, heck I'm one of the first Boxster hackers!
But let's be honest and compare apples to apples.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by ppbon

I'm saying that your ripping me off when you imply that putting a bigger tee and throttle body together will be the same and cheaper than my kits (which include a full ECU remap, a new e-gas TB a new technoTorque3 and complete plumbing including silicone fittings and hardware).
I have nothing against hacking and being creative, heck I'm one of the first Boxster hackers!
But let's be honest and compare apples to apples.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Nothing he's doing constitutes "ripping" off. Fitting bigger throttle bodies to a car dates way back in hot-rodder history. There's nothing original about using new Porsche parts on older Porsches. No rip offs there.

If there is a "value add" that you provide over piecing together catalog parts (which anyone can do), then maybe you should play that up instead of taking a negative approach.

I don't understand the apples and oranges comment. This appears to be apples and your potential bigger apples instead.

[ppbon]

When someone says Pedro's setup is nice but it costs as much as the IPD.
That's not apples to apples.
The IPD is just a plenum.
My TechnoPower kits include a Plenum a THrottle Body all the fittings and hardware and an ECU Tune.
So if someone looking for information reads that statement and decides to buy the IPD I got ripped off and the buyer as well.
And if you install just a bigger tee and a bigger throttle body and you expect to see any power gains, guess who is getting ripped off then.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by ppbon

When someone says Pedro's setup is nice but it costs as much as the IPD.
That's not apples to apples.
The IPD is just a plenum.
My TechnoPower kits include a Plenum a THrottle Body all the fittings and hardware and an ECU Tune.
So if someone looking for information reads that statement and decides to buy the IPD I got ripped off and the buyer as well.
And if you install just a bigger tee and a bigger throttle body and you expect to see any power gains, guess who is getting ripped off then.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro

Again, if you add value beyond compeditive solutions, then you have a compeditive edge. With that you should be able to justify your price. Comments by others in this thread on the potential results without proof are just speculation, no one would take them as any more than that.

A rip off would be if someone copied your unique parts of the solution. If anything, you've done it to IPD, haven't you?

I have nothing personal at all against Pedro, on the contrary, I applaud all he's done for others in our community. But on this point, he's got no place to say he's getting ripped off by anything contained in this thread.

[jacabean]

i have a lot of respect for Pedro , he has done a lot for the boxster community . My thoughts on this topic was to accomplish what the IPD setup does for less money.
using the 997 S plenum , 997 throttle body and some home made connections was what i got from the thread. it could be done for around 500 . I don't see how this is ripping anyone off. does this achieve more air into the engine ? Yes .
the aftermarket needs to understand that these cars are getting old and have passed hands 3 or 4 times and require more maintenance and repair . the people who own them typically have less cash to work with than say a 911 turbo owner. The actual amount of owners willing to drop this kind of dough for this mod. are far and few.

[The Radium King]

again with the ripping people off comments.

from what i see, this post started 05-Dec, but you didn’t introduce your products on your forum until 09-Dec.
Johnny Danger asked you about a larger throttle body/plenum several months ago.
J.Fro got you to do a custom larger plenum for him last year.
IPD have been doing a larger plenum/throttle body for the 986 for a couple of years now.

my point here is that the concept of owning the ‘idea’ of a larger throttle body and plenum is tenuous at best; I do not think that you can argue that the idea of a larger throttle body/plenum was stolen from you.

so, we can only discuss what you have added to create your technopower kit, and whether this is (a) proprietary, and/or (b) of any benefit: specifically, a tune, and a plastic splitter added to an oem plenum to create the technotorque.

- i agree that a tune will add power in general, but disagree that it is specifically required to extract any benefit from a larger throttle body or plenum. this thread was about the larger throttle body and plenum. an analysis of how the bosch dme works, coupled with statements from folks who actually build, tune and race these cars, show that the dme can adapt to the increased air flow realised by a larger throttle body and plenum (this is why big guys like ipd sell their product without tuning). the bosch dme can typically store up to a 25% increase in fuel delivery (to adapt to a 25% increase in airflow) in the long term fuel trims (the ‘learning’ portion of the dme); no intake/exhaust bolt-ons will provide this scale of increased airflow outside of forced induction. given the above, the tuning component of your product is nether proprietary (there are many available) nor of benefit in this instance.

- i disagree that your technotorque provides any benefit. search this site and you’ll find that anyone who actually dyno’d the technotorque on its own did not see any gains. fluid flow analysis in this and earlier posts show that there is no science to support the technotorque either. given the above, while your splitter may be proprietary (but derivative) it is of no benefit.

so, if a tune is not needed to realise any benefits from the larger plenum/throttle body, and the splitter you add to the plenum is of no proven benefit, the ‘do it yourself’ solution is a $60 997 plenum and a larger throttle body (easily found for $100 on the used market); $200 max with required adaptors. let’s compare this to the pricing of your technopower kit as of 31-Dec:

- you sell your technopower kit for $1400.
- you currently sell your technochip flash for $500.
- if we subtract this from the cost of the technopower kit, you are charging $900 for a plenum and a throttle body (a $700 premium over our DIY solution).
- you sell your technotorque 3 modified 997 plenum individually for $300 (a $60 part with a proprietary plastic splitter added to it).
- Auto Atlanta charges $250 for the larger throttle body.
- this means you are charging $350 for several silicone adaptors required to install the pieces onto the car.
- it is understood that private enterprise must make profit, but here there looks to be profit taken on profit; there is already profit in the tune and the modified plenum, followed by additional profit on the overall kit.

given the lack of proven benefit, the $700 premium appears unjustifiable. i feel that for us to determine this in a collaborative, online, forum is not ripping you off. i further feel that your response to date has only strengthened this position.