Needin' a new DD
 

I am, by and large, a "fair weather" Boxster driver, though I'll start driving her pretty early in the spring and keep doing so until the first flurries start to appear in the late fall/early winter. During that time, the Box is, for the most part, my DD.

My DD? When it's yucky out? Well, for some time now it's been a '96 Camry, now runnin' around with nearly 198k miles on the clock. As unexciting as a Camry is, I've grown to love it like a treasured family member: It's a manual (the ONLY one available at the dealership when I bought it, even way back 15 years ago!), is at least somewhat fun to drive, and it handles snow wonderfully. The engine still runs beautifully, and, even though I have to throw 1/2 qt of oil in her every 5-6 weeks (leaking, not burning), I wouldn't be surprised if this engine cranked out another 100k or more. Problem is the other systems. Had to have the fuel lines replaced a while back---rusted out. Before that it was a problem with the hydraulics of the clutch. Etc, etc, every few months. Suspension is getting a bit squeaky. Also getting pretty significant rust-out around the wheel wells (NE Ohio winters are hell on cars!). Even all that doesn't bother me that much, but every time I plunk down a few hundred for such repairs, I hear my wife squawking cynically: "Well, there goes another potential car payment."

Sooooo, I guess I'm going to succumb to the pressure and pick up another DD---not exactly a fate worse than death. I wanted to get some feedback from some car people (uh..that's you guys) on some of the models I've been looking at. I'm focusing primarily on cars in the 2005 -- 2010 range, preferably under 75-80k miles, and am looking to spend under, say, $16.5k. Spoiled by the Box, I'd like it to be somewhat sporty but also to be a good foul weather (ie, snow) car. And (much as the kid in me hates to admit it), being in my fifties now, while I love driving a "fun" car, I have to admit that a little refinement is kinda nice too. These are what I've considered so far:

VW GTI
Acura RSX Type-S
Toyota Celica GTS
Honda Civic Si
Mazdaspeed 3

I've driven the first three of that group (enjoyable all), but not the last two.

Anybody want to give opinions, warnings, recommendations, tales of personal experience, hearsay anecdotes, etc on any or all of the above? I'm all ears...help me out here. (PMs are fine as well.)

If you can make the stretch get a 2008 - 2011 Subaru WRX STi .

I vote GTi:cheers:

I really enjoy the Mazdaspeed 3. I've driven (autocross mostly) a few in the year range you specify, some completely stock and some tuned, fantastic cars. So much so we bought a 2011 Speed3 this year. Lots of reasonably priced aftermarket options too if you are into tinkering

+1 on that or for a more comfotable ride & cheaper price 2002 up WRX they are fun to drive, reliable, & ride is amazingly good! ;)

I share Johnny's recommendation, but I'll add don't be afraid to go for a WRX as opposed to a WRX STi.

Since you're looking for a car to get you through the winter and other unfair weather, I figure you'll want something that will handle the snow well. And I have to say your list of considerations will handle the snow halfway decently, at best, unless you're planning on having a set of snow tires ready to go for the winter. The 'Speed3 is a great car, but I think it might be a bit out of its element in the winter.

FWD is definitely better than RWD when it comes to snow, but I'd say go for AWD if you can, which kind of leaves you with things like Subarus and Audis.

Audi A3?: Details of Used 2007 Audi A3, JEFFERSON, NY - Yahoo! Autos

It's pretty much a luxed-up (4dr) Golf/GTI with AWD.

EDIT: Not that I think you'd do this, but I'll say it anyways: if you're going to go for a Mk V GTI, stay away from the DSG models.

Allow me to throw another possibility into the mix: Lexus RX330
2004 Lexus RX 330 Summary

My wife has been driving one of these RX variants since 1999. She put 240K on the RX300 and we now have 90K on the RX330. It should not be confused with a sporty Boxster, Mazdaspeed3 or GTI but it is a very capable winter DD/Grocery getter/dog hauler with build quality second to none and a lot of elegance and creature comfort. It would nicely round out your fleet with some all-weather capability. You could probably find one for $15-18k and they hold their value well.

Civic si 6speed manual has issue with gear popping out. It is expensive to fix. I used to have a housemate who owns a 08 subaru wrx. It was fun in the snow. Great awd system and you still get that boxer engine note. The turbo whine is also quite addicting.

Audi A3 or A4 Quattro

I LOVE my 02 WRX wagon. It's got 114,000 miles on the original clutch and brakes. I never have to worry about the weather. The car is nearly as fast as my Boxster and almost as much fun to drive (with some suspension work). If you're into modifications, the same parts for this car are less than half what they charge for a Porsche.

I have carried the following things - a full sized bicycle with wheels attached - three bicycles with wheels removed - 4 full sized wheels and tires - a big comfy recliner - (5) 30 gallon garbage bags of yard debris - all kinds of stuff that you need for an infant. All in a car that's the same length as the Porsche.

Using a German car for a DD makes no sense to me. Costs in upkeep and depreciation just don't compare.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37...X/P1010536.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37...de_swifts3.jpg

Well blue, he's looking for a DD that's got some fun factor to it and is capable in the kind of weather that the Boxster might/will not do so well in. Good to know there's another vote for the WRX. ;) I simply suggested the Audi because if he's going to get a GTI he might as well get an AWD one in the A3.

I'd suggest that you consider the best sedan ever made - the BMW 325i (or a 328i). You can find a 2005-2006 model with 60K miles for under $16K. The fun factor is very high - 19 years on Car and Drivers Best 10 list! Heck, even Consumer Reports likes the car. The cars are reliable and easy to DIY the maintenance/repairs. The 325iX is all-wheel drive. Lots of tuner parts are available if you get the itch.

The 325i a great daily driver and has quite a bit of refinement over the others on your list. And the BMW will look nice next to the Porsche.

I would get a 03-05 e46 330i

Believe or not I drive a Jeep.......wait for it.......JK

Get it??

Dario Franchiti's brother Marino, a racer himself, has an article in the latest EVO praising his daily driver VW Golf GTI (edition 30). He had a 993 but once he moved to London he decided on something more practical. I would think they know something about cold weather driving over there. That's a great issue by the way.

The 3 series BMW is a great winter car. Four snow and they are great in the snow due to the traction control and 50/50 balance. My wife's 5 series wagon (rwd) with 4 snows was great in the snow. Don't fall into the myth that you need fwd. I'd rather have 50/50 balance and 4 snows.

Vince

I'd get something with heated seats :)

Check out a new Chevy Cruze. The base model is very inexpensive, very safe (10 air bags), comes with a manual 6 speed and it's very solid. Comes with power windows, locks, XM and Onstar. Not especially fast obviously. I've acutally seen ads in the Little Rock paper for brand new Cruze LS (base model) at $14,995. I have one and find it pleasant to drive. The base model doesn't have cruise control but it's easy to add a $160 aftermarket unit that integrates with the electronics.

p.s.
Anyone own a Hyundai Elantra or Sonata or Kia Optima? I live near a dealership that I pass when biking. Those are some great looking cars and consumer reports rates them highly. Some get 40 mpg and are hardly what I would call tiny strip down econo boxes. parked next to a 3 series Bimmer I would say the designers earned their pay this year. I hear these $199 a month deals on the TV and it seems to good to be true.

Age old dilema - for the price, buy a new car with a warranty, newer technologies, no previous owner issues or a used car, get more options, possibly a more high end brand, big depreciation has been taken by the previous owner(s) but no warranty and the potential for repairs is closer on the horizon.

Thanks for all the replies. (And feel free to keep them coming :)) A LOT to digest---don't know if my decision is getting easier or harder.

One thing I didn't mention in my original post: I'm pretty inclined to go for a manual transmission, eliminating a few of the suggestions made. Also, as far as snow driving goes: I'm pretty good in the snow myself, and so I've about decided that pretty much any front engine FWD car (as long as it's not too low) is probably going to work for me. AWDs are somewhat tempting (and yes, blue, et al, I am going to drive at least one WRX), but they do add weight (and reduce mileage). Haven't made any decision yet on FWD vs AWD.

Got the day off---leaving this moment to tackle some test drives! :D

Ok, since you asked a few more ideas, how about a Mini? The Mini S is sporty and great fun to drive. FWD. Manual trans are easy to find. Very stylish. Lots of tuner parts if you are so inclined. Better design, build, and material quality than a Korean, Japanese, or American econobox.

I won't pretend that my WRX gets good gas mileage. It's consistantly 23-25 mpg. The non-turbo Imprezas do better in that respect.

Here's the thing, you can drive a FWD or RWD car in the snow. I've done both in Wisconsin and Minnesota. But there are times when you have to really pay attention to what you're doing.

With an AWD SUV, you have traction in bad weather, but you have no idea what the heck the vehicle is doing. There's no feedback from the road. The only way you can tell that you're at the adhesion limit is because you've crossed it and you're sliding. Ever wonder why most of the vehicles on the side of the road during a storm are SUVs and trucks? I don't wonder, and I'll never own an SUV or cross-over.

With a small, light, AWD car like an Impreza (any Impreza, you don't need the turbo) or the Audis, AWD 3-series and whatever else, you have traction and you can feel it. This not only makes winter driving do-able, it makes it fun. You know with an Impreza how slippery the conditions are and you can handle them. You know when the car isn't reacting to inputs as soon as you make them and you have time to react. The FWD cars on your list are all fun to drive and would be good for feeling the road. But the combination of feeling the road and having traction is pretty great.

That's just at the extreme of conditions. Even on dry roads, I prefer the handling of my AWD car to FWD. I had an Integra GSR that was a blast to drive, loved the car, but it was really easy to overwelm the traction limits of the front tires (and the engine was far from torque-y compared to the cars on your list). And the car was just OK in rotation (but great for FWD). My AWD cars (I currently have 2 Subarus and I've owned to AWD Mitsubishi Eclipses in the past) when stiffened a bit in the rear suspension, handle nearly as well as a RWD car as far as responsiveness to throttle inputs in both acceleration and yaw.

Snow tires make a huge difference, on any car, BTW. The difference from an all season tire is profound. I highly reccomend to anyone who lives where it snows that they spend the money for a dedicated set of snow tires. It's totally worth it for your safety and the safety of your family.

My opinion on European cars as daily drivers obviously isn't shared by everyone, but in my experience, from a financial standpoint, a used Japanese car has a significanly lower total cost of ownership from purchase to sale than a German car of the same year and general class.

Heck, my WRX is actually worth more than I bought it for 2 years ago, granted I got a good deal. My Porsche, on the other hand, is worth much less than it was over the same time frame, and painfully less than what it was when I bought it 6 years ago.

I had a 2008 Mini Cooper S for about two years . And, I definitely agree that the build quality on these vehicles is first rate . Moreover, I especially like the personalized design quotient that goes into the making of every vehicle. Be advised, however, that they're not the little "puddle jumpers" or "hair dresser" vehicles that most people think that they are; especially the "S" . My vehicle was all business - with a very performance oriented "feel" and "ride" to it . In fact, most of my friends who drove it felt that it was in many instances too harsh . In any case, as far as winter driving is concerned, unless one opts for a set of winter wheels and tires, you can forget about making it through any kind of snow . The wide, low profile tires make it absolutely atrocious in the snow . But, put some "steelies" and studded tires on it, and it will be transformed into a snow going beast !

disagree about the AWD SUV's and feeling the road, our BMW X3 you can feel everything the vehicle is doing, it feels like you driving a high-riding 3 series

I've driven an X3, and a 328xi, my dad has one of each. The 328 has the X3 beat on road feel hands down. No comparison.

I agree it's a great driver's car. I drove the wheels off one at about 4 am in NYC one night. That thing moves. Although I spoke to a Mini Specialist in Florida and he all but talked me out of buying one for my mum which would have to be an automatic. The transmission is pure garbage he said. Too bad it would have been nice. And he had nothing good to say about the Mini aftermaket parts world as well.

I'm going to go way out on a limb here. Before everyone chirps in let me explain myself. I drive a dodge dakota pick up as my 2nd driver. I pretty much drive my box from March to December. I drive it on nice days or whenever I feel like it, which is most of the time. But when it is nasty out, snowing, or heavy rain I take the truck. If I want a fun car in the winter I would just get a car that is not a porsche and drive it all the time. I would probably go with the BMW 325i or something comparible. But, I have a sports car to drive most of the year and need a practicle vehicle for the times the Box just does not work, such as hauling things, driving in deep snow, taking a long trip etc. The truck has been very reliable and will go anywhere. Do I miss the driving excitment in the few winter months? Ya. But I have something during the whole year that is not similiar to what I drive for fun in the summer. EVERY MAN NEEDS A TRUCK IN THE DRIVEWAY!! Always handy.

Believe it or not, I've had the very same thought. (I, too, need to haul stuff from time to time.) And...it's hard to explain, but there's something very relaxing, very satisfying about toolin' around in a pickup. But then in the winter I'd need to throw sand bags over the rear axle, and I'd hafta set all the radio presets to country music stations, and next thing ya know I'm goin' to hell in a hand basket...:D

oh I totally agree, a 328xi is an awesome car! but I like the ground clearance, room and towing capacity of the X3, but the X3, when compared to other SUV's feels more like a car, plus they pull more lateral G's than some sports cars and ALL SUV's.

if the OP does not want a SUV, I would look for a 325/328/330 xi...absolutely awesome cars

Mini's and Bmw 325's will Nickel and dime you to death, a used Mini or a used Bmw cost a lot of $$$ in maintenance and repairs and of far-far from, being reliable.

An SUV or 4X4 truck are great in the snow,The Op seems to want a car for the winter and that's fine, may I suggest a Volvo S40 in fwd or Awd these car will fly throw snow and ice, great on gas and will last 200K miles with basic maintain done on them and can easily be bought in the price range the the OP is looking for.

Yes the Mini and the Bmw are great driving cars, so is my Porsche Boxster and my Lotus Elise, but with all the snow we get here in Michigan they all suck in the winter.That is way I have Volvo S40 R and a Jeep wrangler.:)

I agree! Before I started using my box as DD for the last 2 yrs (100 mi. both way), I used to drive my 01 4 x 4 Durango that has 5.9 engine on it...I don't know but for some reason, I prefer driving the truck. My dodgezilla has 210k mi. already before the 2nd gear start acting out on me...I guess the sound of the engine is very addictive and yes, he is still sitting on my driveway, driveable and has no plans to part with my dodgezilla :D

But back on the topic...I don't know a whole lot about car but if I were to choose, I would personally get Mini S or Mazda 3...zip in and out of the traffic plus has good mpg :cheers:

I had a 2007 GTI (Golf 5) for over 4 years and 95,000 miles. It was a near-loaded 4-door w/ DSG model. I really did love the car, was super fun to drive and was rather reliable as well. There weren't really any mechanical issues with it (beyond a few items early on), and it drove very well, was quick, and plain fun to drive. Earlier in the year I parted with it (due to a desire to slim my finances), and I do miss it these days.

Going to pick up a Mercedes E320 wagon (W210) in the next year to serve as a daily/household hauler.

Yeah, I was actually leaning fairly heavily towards the GTI---nice looking machine, very responsive, and the interior just has a nice "feel" to it. Then, last night I started reading about some "excess oil consumption" problems that some of the VW engines have experienced. Most of the stories I read about were about cars a bit older than what I've been looking at (I've been checking out '08 and '09 models)---haven't yet figured out if it's a problem with the more recent years or not.

You might want to check out a nice used Audi S4. Very fun to drive and yet also refined enough for a 50 something...

Oil problem is with the 1.8lL engines, both found in VW's and Audi's .the 2.0L does not suffer from this problem.

Got two buddies here at work who drive MkVI GTIs, and they know way too much about just about every VW that's existed, so I'll ask them about this. Of course if I tell them you're looking to get a GTI they're gonna try their hardest, through me, to get you to do it. I made the mistake of saying I wouldn't mind having an R32 to DD and have fun in the winter, and next thing I know one of them's practically doing the math on me trading in the Boxster, lol. :rolleyes:

Hm...for that matter, maybe you should look into an R32 as well, Frodo (prob not a MkV, though, go for MkIV). AWD, 3.2 VR6, and it sounds lovely right out the box. It's probably the only VW I'd get, personally, not a big VW nor hatch fan otherwise.

^ As a Boxster driver I found the GTI (loaner with paddles forget which model this was a year and half ago) to be almost too top heavy for me and the rather stiff suspension made it feel like I was driving a wooden bread box. The steering and braking were nice though. I guess you get kind of spoiled in these cars.

Drove (among others) a couple of WRXs yesterday---pretty neat cars. One was a '07 Wagon, the other a '08 Sedan. Liked 'em both--a lot.

Anybody out there ever own, or otherwise have experience with, any Mazdaspeed 3s? I have found some pretty reasonably-priced ones close by with low mileage (one under 20k, others under 40k). (The WRXs in my price range---trying to keep this somewhat under $20k if possible---seem to have mileages in the 40-55k range, and are pretty much at that $20k asking price. Don't know how flexible they'd be on that---those cars are fairly few and far between.) The Mazdas were in the $16-17k range. Zoom zoom?

I drove a '11 GTI yesterday.....there was a massive throttle lag that I could not stand.
Mazdaspeed 3's are pretty nice, a guy at my work has one, but I dont know too much about it