TPC SuperCharger
 

I have recently purchased a '97 boxster with a TPC supercharger kit. I have been told that there are no parts available and no one can rebuild the supercharger. I have bearings going out. I need a source to rebuild or a list of OEM items removed so that I can bring it back to stock.

Please any assistance would be great.

Jim

Kilian Bearings :: Custom Ball Bearings and Assemblies :: Kilian Manufacturing Corp :: Syracuse New York :: Bearing manufacturer machined-race bearings machined race bearings OEM precision-machined bearings Bearing distributor Buy bearing

have someone remove the bearings and maybe they are a standard size, otherwise, the people above, sure there are others, will custom make you a race and bearing set.

any turbo shop should be able to rebuild your turbo

How will they do with the TPC supercharger that he mentioned? :D

If you post a picture of the supercharger we can probably tell you who manufactured it & you can rebuild it.

THat exact supercharger was built by one of the largest super mfgs. in the world. It has been used in everything from Mercs. to Buicks. A rebuild kit on ebay is about $100.

The rest is fabricated tubes and is replaceable by any competent shop. Electronics can also be upgraded with any on of a # of piggy back controllers.

Hardly a loss.

Regards, PK

OK, i know that this is a bit 'old hat' but i've suddenly developed the urge to look at supercharging a 986.

it seems that no one is doing the 'kits' for these anymore however someone must have manufactured the supercharger somewhere and the ducting is something that is workable.

does anyone have any data on kits or the SC manufacturers that were suppliying the units ???

Talk to Mike at TPC
TPC Racing
He'll be glad to help you out.

No one is producing super charger kits for the 986 any more .

The stock compression ratio is too high for forced induction. Sounds like an expensive experiment in how to make a hand grenade. Please do your homework.

Good for you, they're a blast. Far and away the best bang for the buck on these. "Urge" that's why I did it.

Google around, It’s the same roots blower used on the first baby Mercedes SL’s, it was also used in some early 80’s Buicks. Can’t remember the name or model, I think Magnum(?) is the distributor. These complete TPC kits used to show up on ebay and here for about $2500. If you handy, I'd still start there. It has plenty of fault's you can improve upon but it also sorted lots out.

You can call TPC. TPC only “supported” this kit for about 5 yrs. They are pretty unhelpful but should at least be able to tell you the name and model of the blower. Mike is a nice guy but good luck getting him.

It doesn’t matter though, The super itself is not made anymore. A subsequent/replacement model (m2 (?)) is a lot better; about %20 more efficient and 20% smaller, & can spin a lot faster too. (the original can never spin enough for more boost, uses 25hp to work and barely, barely squeezes in)


Jaxondale is right and wrong. This car has an 11:1 comp. ratio. Hi compression = higher cylinder temps. Throw on a super and & it’s even hotter, should be ugly, but it isn’t. It's only a 5-6 psi boost & TPC did a trick (albeit dirty...but cleanable) to cool cylinders by ritchening it up + stock knock sensors do their jobs, retarding the timing to further cool things. My temps (via EGT gauge) are comfortably within range. Never heard of the bottom end going of these going. Whats left?

The hand grenade analogy is witty but not exactly new. No-one can ever really point to one of these, reasonably set up, that ever blew, or any that blew for that matter (though I'm sure some have). It won cause D' chip or IMS problems (might let go 10 mi sooner if they are going to). Mines been in for 6+ odd yrs, no prob & i hardly baby it. The only problems I heard of were only anecdotal & apparently occurred when people “pully'ed” them up for more boost.

You can cool it down plenty with water/meth injection (and clean up TPC's dirty work). Add a new piggyback controller, maybe bigger injectors & you can really clean it up and really make it go. My intention.

Good luck, PK

No-one can ever really point to one of these, reasonably set up, that ever blew, or any that blew


Maybe, but we can point to a bunch that were lovingly cared for like family members that took a dump all on their own without any additional stress adding elements.

I understand guys, that's why I said to do your homework. Some people think that all you do is strap on a blower and force more air for more power. Educating themselves on re-mapping, the consequences of running lean and retarding the ignition under boost should be well know before anyone financially commits themselves and starts buying any plumbing.

Just trying to help.

pk2 is a good source for info on this. He has been running a 2.5L with SC for 4-5 years now and is very well versed on the pros and cons. It is the only 2.5L SC car I know that is still running. Yoke his strength.

i've posted lots of info on this topic on this forum in the past. the sc is an eaton blower. eaton doesn't sell direct to consumer, however, so a company called magnusson buys them in bulk, adds some improvements and resells to kit makers.

the 'trick' tpc uses to run rich in order to keep temps down is as old as the hills and not attributable to tpc. typically used in super high boost applications, where the increase in boost more than offsets the inefficiencies of running outside the best air/fuel ratio, this approach is a power suck in the low-boost, high compression boxster application.

tpc made this kit before tuners had broken the boxster ecu. in order to ensure proper fuel delivery in an application where the volume of air supplied was well outside the ability of the ecu to adapt, tpc ran a piggyback. piggybacks, if used properly, have the ability to interact with and intercept a great many of the ecu functions. unfortunately, when used by tpc, all they did was intercept the rpm signal and use high rpm as a trigger to open a 7th fuel injector added to the intake as part of the kit. not tuning at it's best; efficient/effective fuel distribution is compromised, you depend on the knock sensors way too much, ability of the ecu to adjust timing is ushed to the limit, etc.

the original tpc kit was designed for a 2.5, and only shoehorned into a 2.7/2.9/3.2. to make it fit piping diameters are compromised and you ahve to use a 2.5 exhaust. brad roberts also advises that the orientation of the sc in the tpc install starves the sc bearings of oil resulting in increased maintenance. also, the sc is located right by the exhaust; poor choice in an install where heat management is already such a big issue (no intercooler on the tpc sc kits; those only got introduced when porsche added the third radiator - again, however, third radiator is there to keep the bigger engines cool, yet tpc repurposes it as an air/water intercooler).

original tpc sc kits reattach the aos to before the sc. good idea in that vacuum is maintained, bad idea in that all that oil and crap is passing through the sc. later tpc kits just vent the aos to a catch can - bad for crankcase vacuum, bad for the track when it overflows.

i think you can do forced induction with these engines, you just have to do it properly. unfortunately, a bunch of hack kits quick to the market, and resultant engine failures, have established the internet myth that you can't do fi on these engines. check out turbokraft - they seem to be building a really solid turbo kit.

Thanks guys.

A big consideration point for me is that i am on the wrong side of the Atlantic, the eastern side of the pond has, aside from you guys, a wealth of knowledge and expertise, way beyond the average enthusiast and tech knowledge is severely limited to those who want to sell you very, very expensive options.. think over double, what you guys guy pay then add some..

my thought process has been that i am considering dropping the engine doing a clutch, IMS, RMS, stainless manifolds (headers) of course being in the UK the bolt heads will be corroded to **** so will probably end up needing to machined out and if I'm going to drop the engine then while its out i may well look at doing something 'special'.

of course it goes without saying that i don't want to hand grenade the engine, so obviously with the scare stories i revert back to options like a 74mm throttle body and plenum chamber, but the supercharged idea still nags away at me.

I purchased a used TPC SC kit from ebay. The problem was it did not come with the piggy back computer and TPC no longer supplies them. I contacted a few Porsche tuners such as FabSpeed but nobody I talked to had a solution. My local tuner (deals with mostly Honda's and Mitsu's) could not/would not help.

If anyone has any ideas on a good way to get around not having the 7th injector controller I'd be all ears. I originally thought I could no without this controller and just adjust the pulse to the 6 injector to get more fuel in and have the flashed ECU have full control but I've yet to find anyone to take on the job. I'd be interested also in knowing if there is a better 7th injector piggyback that can interface with the stock ECU.

There a re a number of (piggy back) boxes out there that will work fine if not far better. The original didn't really do a 'elluva lot. It just read a handful of sensors ( 0 - 5v) did some rudimentary load calculations and pulsed the 7th injector accordingly.

A newer box can do much more and do it much better. I was told you can install larger injectors, skip the #7, and drive them all with the right piggy back. It can also retard the timing, drive methanol/h2o injection (inter-cooling). you can also add more inputs for even better control.

There used to be an outfit around that had a twin turbo kit. They re-flashed the original ECU and installed bigger injectors among other things.

there's really nothing to much different in tuning one of these as opposed to a Subaru or Honda. The theory and practice is all the same. Nobody really has to touch the engine, it's all in software.

Regards, PK

How hard would be to adapt a Mega Squirt to properly work with a FI P engine?
Can you find the base maps to get you started..?

.

did you try softronic? they do the tpc turbo tune and state in their propoganda that they do FI tunes. also, they'll be able to tell you if you need the larger injectors or not. other FI tuners that have developed their own tunes are turbokraft and ima motorsports.

I think I missed Softronic so I just sent them an email. I had contacted APR and FabSpeed and didn't get any good news from either. They suggested that I'd have to stick with the solution originally offered by TPC (who didn't have much to offer in help - sorry guys).

I briefly looked into a MegaSquirt solution. That was a little scary and I think Id need some help from someone who has tried that path on a similar project.

My local tuner seems to want to work with the one control system they know best and they don't think it would be compatible with my old ECU. But I don't think they really wanted to get involved as they have enough work keeping their Evo's and STI's on the verge of exploding.

megasquirt has an autotune feature that gets you in the ballpark.

I can't imagine any problem with it. The last time i looked at it though, I thought it had kind of a crappy interface. I picked up a thing called SMT6, a little outdated but it's plenty powerful. O.K interface to. Plan to swap it in soon. All the thing has to do is read 2 or 3 (however many you want) 0-5v signals with some accuracy and spit out at least one 0-5.0v signal (more if you want). It doesn't matter really what it's all blowing into.

As far as the mapping, I'm going to data log with the little box that came with the sc and use it as a starting point to set up the smt6 (gode me into doing it and I'll share). I think the SMT6 will drive 6 injectors but I'm not going to bother now. Conceptually it's not a huge trick to tune from scratch though, get EGT and wideband O2 sensors, should be good to go.

The earlly TPC boxes were crude, semi analogue (at best). Pretty hard to not beat.

Regards, PK

I got an SMT6 from Virginia Speed new for $225. It did not come with a USB or serial cable so Ive got to get one off those to allow program changes.

Next step: Get an EGT, air/fuel gauge (not read anything about these yet but I get the theory) and the wide band O2.

One thing Im not sure about: does the wide band o2 replace and existing sensor and feed its output to both the ECU and the piggy back computer? Or does have to be mounted in a separate location? If so where?

Does anyone have any recommendations for these sensors?

The plan is to install all these and get baselines. Id be happy to share my results.

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Yes, do share your results, be good for a lot of people I'm sure.

Usually the A/F gauge comes with an O2 sensor.

You can weld in a separate stainless steel bung (from ebay) or, replace an existing NB (narrow band) sensor with the WB (wide band) sensor. There are pros and cons to each method. The O2 gauge/sensor setup will fake a NB signal to the ECU. So ya, it replaces it.

E bays a good source for egt sensors. There are a couple different (types...E,J,K) or something). Every little Cessna has at least one. The simplest is just like a hose clamp with the probe/sensor stabbing in towards the center. Really easy to put in. There's another kind that's like a washer that slips over the business end of a spark plug. Again, there's pros and cons.

An airplane gauge is good, very high quality, inspected by the FAA every few years etc, etc. Ugly though. You can also just get an adapter that boosts the sensors output (tiny, mill-ivolts) up to a 0 - 5v signal/output. Then, there's Lots of ways to make that usable, (a DMM (volt meter will work)). Lot's of typical of the shelf gauges at a box auto parts use a 0-5v signal. You just need to match the readings from the gauge with known temp values (I.E. at idle, you read say 3.2 on your gauge, that might equal 600c, flat out you read 4.2, might =700c)

Regards, PK

I'm hoping to install the Perfect Power SMT6 within the next few weeks. Maybe this Sunday if Im lucky. I should be able to wire it up in a similar way to the diagram below and then monitor the pulses sent to the injector (which is not installed).

http://www.perfectpower.com/images/_...pplication.png

I will soon have a wide-band O2 sensor (for the option lambda input) thanks to pk2. According to by Bentley book, pin 44 of the 5.2.2 88-pin ECU connector is the throttle position sensor so that should be easy enough. Then there is the RPM input which I think should be ECU pin 80. Im not sure about the correct wiring for the other inputs though. Does anyone know what should be connected to the AMP input? I think its manifold pressure. Is there a wire from the ECU to the mass-airflow sensor that should be used? Maybe ECU pin 47? Or is it going to be from the output of my digital boost gauge (not installed yet)?

Perfect Power sent me a diagram but Im pretty sure its incorrect as it refers to a 55-pin connector and the book says a '99 Boxster uses DME 5.2.2 which is 88-pins.

Good deal, thats 3 of us now, we ought to be able to it get figured.

Amp, stands for "manifold pressure mod(?)". IF you don't have it, might get a hold of the developer manual. This ones online, I've got it as a PDF (I think) along with some other stuff I gathered up back when. They have some model specific install guides with maps, (none Porsche of course) I think brushed up on some that were similar I.E. Bosch, 6 cyl, german, etc., might help.

Regards, PK

Looking at the manual for SMT6 they say they call the manifold pressure sensor AMP to avoid confusion with their timing maps. So an AMP sensor is a MAP sensor. The boxster has a MAP sensor right? So I just need to wire the SMT6 to MAP input on the ECU. That would be pin 17 I think (labelled as hot film mass air flow sensor).

I tried to install the EGT last night. As I drilled into the exhaust manifold by drill bit melted. That's some tough stuff they make those manifolds from!

I wouldn't try to put the egt in the manifold (if it's just the probe sort). I doubt there will be any appreciable difference in the reading a few inches down the pipe. It's a little relative anyway, you'll have to do some mental calibration once you get the Porsches actual temp specs. It will help to get the probe tip centered in the pipe as best you can though.

I put mine a couple inches behind it in the pipe. If it not late, you might trade yours in for the kind I have. It just took a few minuets under the car. There like a hose clamp. if you looked at the end it's like a "Q" where the leg of the "Q" is the probe and circle of the "Q" is the hose clamp that clamps it on and seals it up. Drill a hole in the pipe, tighten down the clamp, run the wires up, done. (If yours is threaded , you can buy a threaded stainless bung (ebay) and have a muffler shop weld it on to the pipe.)


Ya I forget which, MAF (mass air flow) or MAP (mass air press.) are on these, doesn't matter though, either one is just putting out 0-5v signal that reflects how much air your sucking in to be mixed with the fuel. It definitely won't hurt SMT6, and for data logging, it ...none invasive.

Good work, PK

I have the EGT probe in and will be making an 8 hr trip to Tennessee this Friday so I'll be able to get some readings and normal running temperature. I did end up putting it in the manifold as that was the most common spot in all the how-to youtube videos I saw. Plus, its easily accessible from below but should be safe.

Here's some pics. I used a hose clamp to help keep it in place, although the screw-in plug did seem to hold it so its just a precaution. Notice the drill bit tip I melted and the tap I destroyed. The dewault bit, however, did the business.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1349275638.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1349275715.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1349275736.jpg

Can't go wrong with that. Good job. I put mine on a little after the fact, I already felt reasonably good about the kit.

Your trips sounds perfect for logging some data. Around here mine never changed that much, there was idle and Highway-speed/hard acceleration (of course about 35% of the time somewhere in between). Never went over the same highway-speed/hard acceleration high mark.

Here's an idea, sounds like your going to be pretty scientific. Might try some good 100 oct. Theoretically, higher octane burns cooler (octane is a more complicated than it seems though). There's also stuff like toluene and xylene that have very high octane ratings you can add to your fuel, if you dare. I tried them all for awhile but saw no difference from the 91 oct, the best we get around here. Be interesting if you saw the same.

Good luck, PK

I can see if I can find some 100 octanne. Sounds like a worthwhile experiment. Unfortunately my gauge doesn't log data. Theoretically I can put the voltage input into an input for a OBD program and plot it vs RPM but I haven't got there yet. I can say that mine has a very fast response to load. I'm quite impressed. For example, at 75mph on a flat interstate I get about 1120F. If I hit a hit a hill at the same speed I can see it immediately respond by slightly higher temps like 1200 ish. Same RPM but greater load. The highest I managed to get was about 1240F on the interstate through Kentucky. Higher RPM due to speed (I'm not putting the number on here - ask me in a private message. Needless to say I'm a new fan off I-75 through south Kentucky and Tennessee) but not a particular high RPM. I'm sure I can see hotter temps for high revs but I was only looking at it when I was doing a constant speed.

Fun trip I bet.

100 octane is just unleaded race fuel. Your in the south, nascar land, I just Googled and its allover the place down there (but $$). Try BP. I will say though, there's 100 oct and 100 oct. But try it, they all theoretically should cool things down.

I'll be curious just to see your highs and lows and under what circumstances you got them.

Good luck, PK

Jim check out ebay for the super charger rebuild kit only costs about 100 bucks comes with bearings and oil

Jim check out ebay and eaton supercharger rebuild kits only cost 100 bucks comes with everything you need

I got the wide band O2 sensor in today and wired it up to the control electronics. Everything seems to be working. I got a reading of 14.7 with the engine off. I'll know for sure when I see it heat up properly.

Next, I have to wire the SMT6 piggy back into the ECU wiring harness. Here, I ran into a problem. Although I have the Bentley manual which tells me which ECU pin does what what I dont have is the wire colour codes. Does anyone know where I might be able to find which coloured wire does what?

here's one for the 7.2 dme; uncertain how similar it is to the 5.x in your car:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/11-ENGINE-911_Engine_Swap/Electrical_Diagrams/Carrera01A.jpg

Thanks. The diagram in the link looked familiar so I check the back of my manual and the wire colours are there.

Not condoning this but since you can find the factory "workshop" manual with all the wiring diagrams on the all over the web, mys well. It shows all the pins and wire colors for the DME (and where they go to double check).

I think if you just only squint at the pertinent page then support your local Porsche dealer by purchasing a $3 cigarette lighter for $97, you'll be o.k.

PK

So now that I found that I have the DME wire colour codes I started looking at the DME functions more closely. Has anyone considered using the 'knocking yes/no' wire on pin 67 to wire up a knock indicator? Or am I misinterpreting what this is for? Sounds like a simple bulb to this would give you a warning.

There also a pin for oil temperature. Dose the non-S '99 986 have a oil temp sensor or is this what it would connect to if I had one? If its just the dial Im missing then Im going to want to start to plot that.