Lost my engine- another one gone.
About 86k miles- 2002 S
Let me say first that I was the poster child for preventative maintenance. I have replaced everything in that car that could break, aside from the motor itself. I changed the oil every 5K. Drove it spirited but no redline. I just got finished with a new stereo/window regulators/brake disks/pads/steel lines/refinshed wheels/AOS. I even had a new water pump in the trunk waiting for install. Well the post mortem has not arrived, but while driving home the motor lost power and started with a small knocking sound. Before I could get it stopped, the knocking got really loud. The motor still turns over, but the loud rob knock leads me to believe the car spun a rod bearing. After looking up the cost of a new motor, I decided that the car was a total loss. The car running is only worth 14K. The mods and upgrades that you put on the car mean nothing. I looked all over for a new Porsche. The motor is pretty much the same up until 2009 and I absolutely did not want the same motor. I could not bring myself to buying another Porsche with the possibility of a 17K repair bill in the near future. I really love Porsche, however I feel that they are just too unreliable. That car cost so much to maintain and repair. It is a shame that Porsche can not understand that people are expecting much more from a car when the cost is over 50K. I went with a 2010 BMW 335IS with 14K miles. I will miss the box and the top down fun. I have ALL SORTS of parts and tools now for sale. I will photograph them and put them online ASAP. |
Sorry to hear it and my sympathies for sure, glad you found what you like in another vehicle. I'm going to attempt to fix mine but if the bill begins to eclipse the value I'll be right behind you. You might consider putting an ad in Excellence online, it's free and who knows, maybe some kid will buy it and stuff a new motor in it, good luck. So much for the magic IMS, I am looking 09 and forward but the data on the new engine is still unknown.
PS Mine had an underpulley on it too but I think there is no linkage to failure |
Sorry to hear about your problems...
PM me if you decide to part out. Your sig has several items I might be interested in. |
guess we can rule out a IMS failure since you have the upgrade.............PM me too if you are parting, I am interested in some of the things in your sig and probably some stock parts too
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Opinions sought here...Sorry to hear about this JHandy. It SUCKS. I feel bad for you. I have the
IMS upgrade myself. Now this is the exact type of scenario I'm wondering about. Would an extended service contract take care of this type of failure ? I have one, and am considering canceling it. Every-time I do, I end up reading about some poor bastard having this type of thing happen. |
This was a classic case of a thrown rod. Ironically, I was just thinking that morning how well she was driving, the air was crisp and the motor was pulling like a champ.
The car was great when I had it. Owning my boxster was like dating a model. High maintenance, higher cost, but a fun ride while you have her. The BMW fits me better where I am in my life now. I don’t have time to wrench the car anymore, I have four kids and a wife. Now I can get to T-Ball practice and still have a go fast car. |
It is always disappointing to read these stories. Sorry it happened to you, jhandy.
Was your car a daily-driver? Any auto-x or track days? Did you use any particular brand and weight of oil? Thanks and best of luck with the Bimmer. ddb |
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Sorry to hear about the Boxster.
On the other hand, want to hear about all of the expensive repairs required for my nearly 10 yr-old pair of BMW's? If you want high reliability and cheap repairs, don't buy any luxury, high performance German car. |
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I've given great thought to buying a Corvette some day. I think if I had it wrapped in matte black I could actually picture myself in one. |
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Would really appreciate opinions:
Would an extended service contract take care of this type of failure ? I have one, and am considering canceling it. Every time I do, I end up reading about some poor bastard having this type of thing happen. Got it thru dealer when CPO expired. (Fidelity Warranty Services). 2001 Boxster S 6spd Artic Silver,black 69k miles LN IMS RMS |
I think the only way to know is to arbitrate that with the company before you renew or parse out the details now while you don't need it. If you got it through the dealer and it's a Porsche policy, it should!!
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gotta watch those new BMW's and the fuel pump failures!!!!
BTW I spend MUCH more time wrenching on my BMW X3 with 68k miles on it than I do my Boxster with 65k.....and ironically spend almost 0 time wrenching on the Saab 9-3 with 112k on it |
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I will post tear down pics of the engine tomorrow.
It's a complete loss.. To include the crankshaft and carrier... But the LN IMSR bearing looks perfect and has gone to the lab for analysis. Looked like oil starvation... |
JHandy,
you upgraded the IMS? You didn't make mention of that in your initial post. Anyone know the cost of swapping in a different engine like a Subaru? I'd love to see someone send Porsche NA a picure of that finished product along with a note regarding the decision making rationale. A proud group of engineers won't take that lightly. By the way, if you think the there are too many IMS related threads on this forum you should see how sensitive the Carrera folks have become on other forums after umpteenth prospective buyers and current owners chime in to stress over possible engine issues. I think its starting to sink in that first time Porsche buyers are becoming very gun shy about the pitfalls of these engines. Which leads me to believe that you'll be able to pick up a modestly used 996 on the ultra cheap before long-- it's not just Boxsters. This market is too soft and this 996/986 market community is too small to have these sorts of stories flying around. Perception is trumping reality and there's nothing sellers can do about that. |
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It is hard to mistake the sound of rod knock. Before it stopped, the motor had super loss of power, oil light turned on and then stalled out. I was warned that putting wider tires, lowering with stiff springs, and driving hard could result in higher G-forces. It had been burning oil recently with the 0-40 so I went with the 10-40 and this slowed the loss. |
The IMSR bearing looks fine and feels fine.. It faired better than I would have ever imagined seeing how much foreign object debris was in the oil. The IMSR bearing has a very low tolerance for contaminated oil with ferrous material as it is an open bearing with close tolerances.
This IMS bearing will add to our data base due to the mileage and the severe shock that it experienced, endured and lived through. It can't get any worse. Here are some pics of the teardown post-mortem. <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bLvby3EzGkItTtEeGnWptoHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-u92fdpmThuA/TrmZt7SbptI/AAAAAAAAAFM/VXApon7GH2w/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a></td> </tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/113052301279484582707/SH100?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLCMgcGql8jkHg&feat =embedwebsite">SH100</a></td></tr></table> <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/c8cpVt4C9lqUyaC0aisgwYHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2a49-MGKszo/TrmZoxHzU5I/AAAAAAAAAE8/zeaHbdy8bhA/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/113052301279484582707/SH100?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLCMgcGql8jkHg&feat =embedwebsite">SH100</a></td></tr></table> <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TQ5EgRypCBQ8-SW60dDOZ4HYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=embedwebsite"> <img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_gJVHTSAFQE/TrmZD9jkr3I/AAAAAAAAAEE/jARfRxfTId0/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="800" width="600" /></a> <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QxgjBXWt5gnszroNjsiDk4HYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VhLyNOAckx0/TrmZBYtGqbI/AAAAAAAAAD8/vKeWU6OLFFQ/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a> <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Mgf5uCZCA7BEydMp4iRXzIHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N7H6WEs-1qw/TrmY59vFGGI/AAAAAAAAADk/81g2q6vg2PY/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a> <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lmvafV1H_Bna75MwjcZvG4HYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HmfXpP8ze_U/TrmY1E0cNWI/AAAAAAAAADU/KLtKid-_h78/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a> <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZzpwB-BXG9p1-j3Tz9GH0YHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=embedwebsite"> <img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lrsSscMAuis/TrmY-52pMvI/AAAAAAAAAD0/osXHVnNJ070/s144/2011.01.13.jpg" height="108" width="144" /></a> Now here is what was lurking as a totally unrelated issue just waiting to fail... When we pulled the engine from the car it had some coolant in the oil and vice versa but it was yet to mix.. Upon teardown this is what a trained eye found.. A classic <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lH5RR0yFcQ5PEn2M_KKuoIHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-noKhuGLtcD8/TrmZkBiZBZI/AAAAAAAAAEs/zrtD2T0rVQE/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/113052301279484582707/SH100?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLCMgcGql8jkHg&feat =embedwebsite">SH100</a></td></tr></table> <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vn7eCJAj7u7PERBE5q7BTIHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mUx5vqfCiOU/TrmdOF8Xg4I/AAAAAAAAAF4/XtWqQppylJY/s800/PA070440.JPG" height="600" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/113052301279484582707/SH100?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLCMgcGql8jkHg&feat =embedwebsite">SH100</a></td></tr></table> This is a magnetic drain plug.. Whats attached to it is the rod and main bearings. The IMS Guardian would have saved the life of this engine undoubtedly.<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_MWuRUy5qqaiOJ3Elo6tZoHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-94M19hpQkeM/TrmdNFmjErI/AAAAAAAAAFw/HLNMm-up0Ts/s800/PA070442.JPG" height="600" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/113052301279484582707/SH100?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLCMgcGql8jkHg&feat =embedwebsite">SH100</a></td></tr></table> The entire engine is grenaded. The crank is trash, carrier is trash, all the rods, the oil pump, one cylinder head and the scavenge pumps. The IMS tube and IMS bearing are all thats really left, even the case was damaged. |
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[QUOTE=jhandy;263415]...The oil was about half full that morning and I should have filled it to the top like I usually do. It is a shame that Porsche can not understand that people are expecting much more from a car when the cost is over 50K. /QUOTE]
Sorry again for your loss but you seem to have had an oil problem for some time...and drove it "half-empty" (-/+ 5 quarts low?). You can't blame Porsche or the engine for that. Preventive maintenance would have been to have the seals or whatever repaired that was causing your oil consumption. It's all on you brother. Try to part it out and get what you can. That was totally preventable. |
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If that isn't the case, jhandy, let us know. |
Jake,
Thanks for the post mortem pictures... So school me on what is the "classic soon to fail "in the picture of the sparkplug/head. I am honest enough to admit I don't know what you are pointing to. Is that a crack half way around the spark plug ? |
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"So school me on what is the "classic soon to fail "in the picture of the sparkplug/head. I am honest enough to admit I don't know what you are pointing to."
Landrovered, yes, you are correct. The head is cracked at the bottom of the channel around the spark plug (where the aluminum is darkly discolored). The crack appears to go from about the 3 or 4 o'clock position to the 7 or 8 o'clock position. |
You mean some JB weld isn't going to plug that crack?
I wonder about that digital oil gauge on the dash. I'm always getting weird read outs. Sometimes it says four ticks too low and and on the next start up it will say one tick too low. Is that thing reliable at all at warning of a leak somewhere? |
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That morning the indicator was reading in the middle. I like to have it at the top of the electronic indicator. I did not have oil to put in to it so I was planning on getting a quart or two on the way home. Well on the way home is when the car died. The loss of the car is on me. I should have kept it filled to the top. I really dont care that it is gone. Its just a car. Over the 9 years of ownership the box was expensive to keep happy. Small parts would break all the time. Maintance was getting more expensive and regular. I have replaced all sorts of small things from fan motors, control arms, plastic latches, sun visors, plastic windows, convertible top, bushings, bearings, window regulators, seats, buttons, switches, relays, AOS, radio, speakers (paper speakers? really on a porsche?) I just expected more than 85K from a car I spent 57,000$ for. I would buy another one as soon as they increase the quality. Because at the end of the day, I was smiling when I got home after a drive. |
You're a big man for typing that, I commend you. Regardless of this situation, personally, I still believe these engines are breaking in a manner that almost suggests the company had about a five year running horizon in mind for the initial cost. I saw less Fiat motors blow over a 20 year span and that isn't a lie. If I'm wrong, I'll be like Jhandy and own it, however the very fact Porsche doesn't even return your inquiry is very disturbing. I'm confident my car is repairable, I only wish I had it in me to do it.
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Jhandy,
I'm curious to know how much oil was missing. After watching those silly late night infomericals about how magical engine oil additives could keep an engine running for a few seconds I would have thought that even half full would have prevented total disaster for a few miles. |
With 10 quarts of oil in the system, you cannot tell me that being only a quart down is going to make a hill of beans difference and cause you to blow an engine while driving ON THE ROAD. Now the windage tray design and other extenuating circumstances on a track I can see but on DOT tires on a public street, I don't buy it as the root cause of the failure.
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p.s.
I find it odd that I had the flashing dash light when all of the coolant leaked out of my car but the same wouldn't happen when oil reaches dangerously low levels? These cars aren't that old to not have some manner of simple dashboard alert. Seriously..this seems like a very basic feature in a high end modern sports car. |
i change my oil at 8k intervals and lose about a litre between changes. this is normal, and can be due to cylinders going off-round, failing aos, etc. this does not mean your engine is going to grenade and does not warrant a trip to the shop on it's own.
the dash inidcatior is a little over a litre from top to bottom, so you were down a bit over 1/2 quart. this will not kill an engine on it's own. further, you went to a heavier cold weight oil, so you can anticipate it to take longer to run back down to the sump and the indicator not measuring all the oil actually in the engine (this is the variation the previous poster referred to). whether your car is level or not also drastically affects this reading. so, you don't 'own' this; you maintained the car above and beyond what was required by the manufacturer (ie, ims replacement) and operated it as one could expect to operate any vehicle. to suggest that you are somehow responsible for a $15k engine failure is ignorant, but i commend your good spirit about it. |
Sorry to hear about your loss, but I'd like to hear what Jake's findings are after the tear down. Losing 1 quart of oil seem a bit of a stretch to blow the engine.
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The engine was so bad that I can't tell really what happened first. I pulled the trophies out of it to be inducted as offerings to the Gods of Speed and the rest is already at the scrap yard.
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I agree. Seems highly implausible that an oil level half way up the gauge in the safe zone is going to kill an engine in the course of street driving.
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oil pump failure?
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