986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners (http://986forum.com/forums/)
-   Boxster General Discussions (http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/)
-   -   Lost my engine- another one gone. (http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/30980-lost-my-engine-another-one-gone.html)

jhandy 11-07-2011 07:56 AM

Lost my engine- another one gone.
 
About 86k miles- 2002 S
Let me say first that I was the poster child for preventative maintenance. I have replaced everything in that car that could break, aside from the motor itself.
I changed the oil every 5K. Drove it spirited but no redline.
I just got finished with a new stereo/window regulators/brake disks/pads/steel lines/refinshed wheels/AOS.
I even had a new water pump in the trunk waiting for install.

Well the post mortem has not arrived, but while driving home the motor lost power and started with a small knocking sound. Before I could get it stopped, the knocking got really loud.
The motor still turns over, but the loud rob knock leads me to believe the car spun a rod bearing.

After looking up the cost of a new motor, I decided that the car was a total loss. The car running is only worth 14K. The mods and upgrades that you put on the car mean nothing.

I looked all over for a new Porsche. The motor is pretty much the same up until 2009 and I absolutely did not want the same motor. I could not bring myself to buying another Porsche with the possibility of a 17K repair bill in the near future. I really love Porsche, however I feel that they are just too unreliable. That car cost so much to maintain and repair. It is a shame that Porsche can not understand that people are expecting much more from a car when the cost is over 50K.

I went with a 2010 BMW 335IS with 14K miles. I will miss the box and the top down fun.

I have ALL SORTS of parts and tools now for sale. I will photograph them and put them online ASAP.

Ghostrider 310 11-07-2011 08:04 AM

Sorry to hear it and my sympathies for sure, glad you found what you like in another vehicle. I'm going to attempt to fix mine but if the bill begins to eclipse the value I'll be right behind you. You might consider putting an ad in Excellence online, it's free and who knows, maybe some kid will buy it and stuff a new motor in it, good luck. So much for the magic IMS, I am looking 09 and forward but the data on the new engine is still unknown.

PS Mine had an underpulley on it too but I think there is no linkage to failure

maj75 11-07-2011 08:13 AM

Sorry to hear about your problems...

PM me if you decide to part out. Your sig has several items I might be interested in.

fivepointnine 11-07-2011 08:19 AM

guess we can rule out a IMS failure since you have the upgrade.............PM me too if you are parting, I am interested in some of the things in your sig and probably some stock parts too

jdiba 11-07-2011 08:32 AM

Opinions sought here...Sorry to hear about this JHandy. It SUCKS. I feel bad for you. I have the
IMS upgrade myself. Now this is the exact type of scenario I'm wondering about. Would an extended
service contract take care of this type of failure ? I have one, and am considering canceling it. Every-time I do, I end up reading about some poor bastard having this type of thing happen.

jhandy 11-07-2011 08:46 AM

This was a classic case of a thrown rod. Ironically, I was just thinking that morning how well she was driving, the air was crisp and the motor was pulling like a champ.
The car was great when I had it. Owning my boxster was like dating a model. High maintenance, higher cost, but a fun ride while you have her.

The BMW fits me better where I am in my life now. I don’t have time to wrench the car anymore, I have four kids and a wife. Now I can get to T-Ball practice and still have a go fast car.

ddb 11-07-2011 08:58 AM

It is always disappointing to read these stories. Sorry it happened to you, jhandy.

Was your car a daily-driver? Any auto-x or track days? Did you use any particular brand and weight of oil?

Thanks and best of luck with the Bimmer.

ddb

onaFLYer 11-07-2011 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddb (Post 263268)
It is always disappointing to read these stories. Sorry it happened to you, jhandy.

Was your car a daily-driver? Any auto-x or track days? Did you use any particular brand and weight of oil?

Thanks and best of luck with the Bimmer.

ddb

Same thing happened to me, at a track day. I decided to rebuild mine, in-progress now. I got the car cheap, and have a fair amount of free time to devote to this. I'd be interested in some of the exhaust parts if you decide to part it out.

thstone 11-07-2011 09:41 AM

Sorry to hear about the Boxster.

On the other hand, want to hear about all of the expensive repairs required for my nearly 10 yr-old pair of BMW's? If you want high reliability and cheap repairs, don't buy any luxury, high performance German car.

Perfectlap 11-07-2011 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thstone (Post 263274)
Sorry to hear about the Boxster.

On the other hand, want to hear about all of the expensive repairs required for my nearly 10 yr-old pair of BMW's? If you want high reliability and cheap repairs, don't buy any luxury, high performance German car.

There are forums full of Honda S2000 and Mitsubishi Evo owners who would probably tell you to add Japanese high performance car to that as well.


I've given great thought to buying a Corvette some day. I think if I had it wrapped in matte black I could actually picture myself in one.

Ghostrider 310 11-07-2011 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thstone (Post 263274)
Sorry to hear about the Boxster.

On the other hand, want to hear about all of the expensive repairs required for my nearly 10 yr-old pair of BMW's? If you want high reliability and cheap repairs, don't buy any luxury, high performance German car.

At north of 60k for a new one this is a tough axiom to embrace, it's not like it's their first go at a flat six. If I am able to fix mine the bad part will be mailed to Germany with the mileage attached.

jdiba 11-07-2011 09:55 AM

Would really appreciate opinions:

Would an extended service contract take care of this type of failure ? I have one, and am considering canceling it. Every time I do, I end up reading about some poor bastard having this type of thing happen. Got it thru dealer when CPO expired. (Fidelity Warranty Services).

2001 Boxster S 6spd Artic Silver,black 69k miles
LN IMS
RMS

Ghostrider 310 11-07-2011 10:08 AM

I think the only way to know is to arbitrate that with the company before you renew or parse out the details now while you don't need it. If you got it through the dealer and it's a Porsche policy, it should!!

fivepointnine 11-07-2011 10:08 AM

gotta watch those new BMW's and the fuel pump failures!!!!
BTW I spend MUCH more time wrenching on my BMW X3 with 68k miles on it than I do my Boxster with 65k.....and ironically spend almost 0 time wrenching on the Saab 9-3 with 112k on it

BYprodriver 11-07-2011 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdiba (Post 263279)
Would really appreciate opinions:

Would an extended service contract take care of this type of failure ? I have one, and am considering canceling it. Every time I do, I end up reading about some poor bastard having this type of thing happen. Got it thru dealer when CPO expired. (Fidelity Warranty Services).

2001 Boxster S 6spd Artic Silver,black 69k miles
LN IMS
RMS

Proper way to do that is to 1ST SEARCH for the info you seek, THEN if you need additional info insted of hijacking this member in real need thread, Start a new thread on the subject you want to discuss. Everyone: Would really appreciate that.[/B]

DenverSteve 11-07-2011 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdiba (Post 263279)
Would really appreciate opinions: Would an extended service contract take care of this type of failure ? I have one, and am considering canceling it. Every time I do, I end up reading about some poor bastard having this type of thing happen. Got it thru dealer when CPO expired. (Fidelity Warranty Services). 2001 Boxster S 6spd Artic Silver,black 69k miles LN IMS RMS

Possibly. Repairing a spun bearing is likely less expensive than buying a BMW. I also don't know where you are but 2002's here, clean with low mileage, are running closer to 25,000.

Jake Raby 11-07-2011 05:49 PM

I will post tear down pics of the engine tomorrow.
It's a complete loss.. To include the crankshaft and carrier... But the LN IMSR bearing looks perfect and has gone to the lab for analysis.

Looked like oil starvation...

Perfectlap 11-08-2011 06:51 AM

JHandy,
you upgraded the IMS? You didn't make mention of that in your initial post.


Anyone know the cost of swapping in a different engine like a Subaru?
I'd love to see someone send Porsche NA a picure of that finished product along with a note regarding the decision making rationale.
A proud group of engineers won't take that lightly.


By the way, if you think the there are too many IMS related threads on this forum you should see how sensitive the Carrera folks have become on other forums after umpteenth prospective buyers and current owners chime in to stress over possible engine issues. I think its starting to sink in that first time Porsche buyers are becoming very gun shy about the pitfalls of these engines. Which leads me to believe that you'll be able to pick up a modestly used 996 on the ultra cheap before long-- it's not just Boxsters. This market is too soft and this 996/986 market community is too small to have these sorts of stories flying around. Perception is trumping reality and there's nothing sellers can do about that.

jhandy 11-08-2011 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby (Post 263321)
I will post tear down pics of the engine tomorrow.
It's a complete loss.. To include the crankshaft and carrier... But the LN IMSR bearing looks perfect and has gone to the lab for analysis.

Looked like oil starvation...

Oil starvation sounds right. It died on a sharp turn. The oil was about half full that morning and I should have filled it to the top like I usually do.
It is hard to mistake the sound of rod knock. Before it stopped, the motor had super loss of power, oil light turned on and then stalled out. I was warned that putting wider tires, lowering with stiff springs, and driving hard could result in higher G-forces. It had been burning oil recently with the 0-40 so I went with the 10-40 and this slowed the loss.

Jake Raby 11-08-2011 12:24 PM

The IMSR bearing looks fine and feels fine.. It faired better than I would have ever imagined seeing how much foreign object debris was in the oil. The IMSR bearing has a very low tolerance for contaminated oil with ferrous material as it is an open bearing with close tolerances.

This IMS bearing will add to our data base due to the mileage and the severe shock that it experienced, endured and lived through. It can't get any worse.


Here are some pics of the teardown post-mortem.
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bLvby3EzGkItTtEeGnWptoHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-u92fdpmThuA/TrmZt7SbptI/AAAAAAAAAFM/VXApon7GH2w/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a></td>
</tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/113052301279484582707/SH100?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLCMgcGql8jkHg&feat =embedwebsite">SH100</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/c8cpVt4C9lqUyaC0aisgwYHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2a49-MGKszo/TrmZoxHzU5I/AAAAAAAAAE8/zeaHbdy8bhA/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/113052301279484582707/SH100?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLCMgcGql8jkHg&feat =embedwebsite">SH100</a></td></tr></table>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TQ5EgRypCBQ8-SW60dDOZ4HYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=embedwebsite"> <img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_gJVHTSAFQE/TrmZD9jkr3I/AAAAAAAAAEE/jARfRxfTId0/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="800" width="600" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QxgjBXWt5gnszroNjsiDk4HYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VhLyNOAckx0/TrmZBYtGqbI/AAAAAAAAAD8/vKeWU6OLFFQ/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Mgf5uCZCA7BEydMp4iRXzIHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N7H6WEs-1qw/TrmY59vFGGI/AAAAAAAAADk/81g2q6vg2PY/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lmvafV1H_Bna75MwjcZvG4HYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HmfXpP8ze_U/TrmY1E0cNWI/AAAAAAAAADU/KLtKid-_h78/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZzpwB-BXG9p1-j3Tz9GH0YHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=embedwebsite"> <img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lrsSscMAuis/TrmY-52pMvI/AAAAAAAAAD0/osXHVnNJ070/s144/2011.01.13.jpg" height="108" width="144" /></a>

Now here is what was lurking as a totally unrelated issue just waiting to fail... When we pulled the engine from the car it had some coolant in the oil and vice versa but it was yet to mix.. Upon teardown this is what a trained eye found.. A classic

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lH5RR0yFcQ5PEn2M_KKuoIHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-noKhuGLtcD8/TrmZkBiZBZI/AAAAAAAAAEs/zrtD2T0rVQE/s800/2011.01.13.jpg" height="600" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/113052301279484582707/SH100?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLCMgcGql8jkHg&feat =embedwebsite">SH100</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vn7eCJAj7u7PERBE5q7BTIHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mUx5vqfCiOU/TrmdOF8Xg4I/AAAAAAAAAF4/XtWqQppylJY/s800/PA070440.JPG" height="600" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/113052301279484582707/SH100?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLCMgcGql8jkHg&feat =embedwebsite">SH100</a></td></tr></table>

This is a magnetic drain plug.. Whats attached to it is the rod and main bearings. The IMS Guardian would have saved the life of this engine undoubtedly.<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_MWuRUy5qqaiOJ3Elo6tZoHYCxyWSqn6aQYcpCUCsIc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-94M19hpQkeM/TrmdNFmjErI/AAAAAAAAAFw/HLNMm-up0Ts/s800/PA070442.JPG" height="600" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/113052301279484582707/SH100?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLCMgcGql8jkHg&feat =embedwebsite">SH100</a></td></tr></table>

The entire engine is grenaded. The crank is trash, carrier is trash, all the rods, the oil pump, one cylinder head and the scavenge pumps. The IMS tube and IMS bearing are all thats really left, even the case was damaged.

Flavor 987S 11-08-2011 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhandy (Post 263258)
About 86k miles- 2002 S
Let me say first that I was the poster child for preventative maintenance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhandy (Post 263415)
Oil starvation sounds right. It died on a sharp turn. The oil was about half full that morning and I should have filled it to the top like I usually do.
It is hard to mistake the sound of rod knock. Before it stopped, the motor had super loss of power, oil light turned on and then stalled out. I was warned that putting wider tires, lowering with stiff springs, and driving hard could result in higher G-forces. It had been burning oil recently with the 0-40 so I went with the 10-40 and this slowed the loss.

Sorry this happened to you, but you hardly sound like the "poster child for Porsche preventative maintenance". Good luck with your new BMW toy.

DenverSteve 11-08-2011 06:32 PM

[QUOTE=jhandy;263415]...The oil was about half full that morning and I should have filled it to the top like I usually do. It is a shame that Porsche can not understand that people are expecting much more from a car when the cost is over 50K. /QUOTE]

Sorry again for your loss but you seem to have had an oil problem for some time...and drove it "half-empty" (-/+ 5 quarts low?). You can't blame Porsche or the engine for that. Preventive maintenance would have been to have the seals or whatever repaired that was causing your oil consumption. It's all on you brother. Try to part it out and get what you can. That was totally preventable.

ddb 11-08-2011 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverSteve (Post 263479)
and drove it half-empty -/+ 5 quarts low.

I'm thinking jhandy may be referring to the electronic oil level gauge indicating "half-empty" which would translate to the crankcase being a quart or less low.

If that isn't the case, jhandy, let us know.

landrovered 11-08-2011 06:45 PM

Jake,

Thanks for the post mortem pictures...

So school me on what is the "classic soon to fail "in the picture of the sparkplug/head. I am honest enough to admit I don't know what you are pointing to.

Is that a crack half way around the spark plug ?

DenverSteve 11-08-2011 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddb (Post 263482)
I'm thinking jhandy may be referring to the electronic oil level gauge indicating "half-empty" which would translate to the crankcase being a quart or less low.

If that isn't the case, jhandy, let us know.

Oh. Possibly. He still indicates that he has to "usually" put oil in. Which he, this time, did not.

thstone 11-08-2011 07:56 PM

"So school me on what is the "classic soon to fail "in the picture of the sparkplug/head. I am honest enough to admit I don't know what you are pointing to."

Landrovered, yes, you are correct. The head is cracked at the bottom of the channel around the spark plug (where the aluminum is darkly discolored). The crack appears to go from about the 3 or 4 o'clock position to the 7 or 8 o'clock position.

Perfectlap 11-09-2011 06:02 AM

You mean some JB weld isn't going to plug that crack?

I wonder about that digital oil gauge on the dash. I'm always getting weird read outs. Sometimes it says four ticks too low and and on the next start up it will say one tick too low.
Is that thing reliable at all at warning of a leak somewhere?

jhandy 11-09-2011 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverSteve (Post 263484)
Oh. Possibly. He still indicates that he has to "usually" put oil in. Which he, this time, did not.

What I was refering to was the dashboard indicator. In the last 6 months, The oil level would drop every month and in between changes. The car never did that before. So I was trying to make it a habbit to check the oil before my hour long fun drive to work.

That morning the indicator was reading in the middle. I like to have it at the top of the electronic indicator. I did not have oil to put in to it so I was planning on getting a quart or two on the way home. Well on the way home is when the car died.

The loss of the car is on me. I should have kept it filled to the top. I really dont care that it is gone. Its just a car. Over the 9 years of ownership the box was expensive to keep happy. Small parts would break all the time. Maintance was getting more expensive and regular. I have replaced all sorts of small things from fan motors, control arms, plastic latches, sun visors, plastic windows, convertible top, bushings, bearings, window regulators, seats, buttons, switches, relays, AOS, radio, speakers (paper speakers? really on a porsche?) I just expected more than 85K from a car I spent 57,000$ for.
I would buy another one as soon as they increase the quality. Because at the end of the day, I was smiling when I got home after a drive.

Ghostrider 310 11-09-2011 07:46 AM

You're a big man for typing that, I commend you. Regardless of this situation, personally, I still believe these engines are breaking in a manner that almost suggests the company had about a five year running horizon in mind for the initial cost. I saw less Fiat motors blow over a 20 year span and that isn't a lie. If I'm wrong, I'll be like Jhandy and own it, however the very fact Porsche doesn't even return your inquiry is very disturbing. I'm confident my car is repairable, I only wish I had it in me to do it.

Perfectlap 11-09-2011 08:41 AM

Jhandy,
I'm curious to know how much oil was missing. After watching those silly late night infomericals about how magical engine oil additives could keep an engine running for a few seconds I would have thought that even half full would have prevented total disaster for a few miles.

landrovered 11-09-2011 08:56 AM

With 10 quarts of oil in the system, you cannot tell me that being only a quart down is going to make a hill of beans difference and cause you to blow an engine while driving ON THE ROAD. Now the windage tray design and other extenuating circumstances on a track I can see but on DOT tires on a public street, I don't buy it as the root cause of the failure.

Perfectlap 11-09-2011 09:14 AM

p.s.
I find it odd that I had the flashing dash light when all of the coolant leaked out of my car but the same wouldn't happen when oil reaches dangerously low levels? These cars aren't that old to not have some manner of simple dashboard alert.
Seriously..this seems like a very basic feature in a high end modern sports car.

The Radium King 11-09-2011 09:29 AM

i change my oil at 8k intervals and lose about a litre between changes. this is normal, and can be due to cylinders going off-round, failing aos, etc. this does not mean your engine is going to grenade and does not warrant a trip to the shop on it's own.

the dash inidcatior is a little over a litre from top to bottom, so you were down a bit over 1/2 quart. this will not kill an engine on it's own. further, you went to a heavier cold weight oil, so you can anticipate it to take longer to run back down to the sump and the indicator not measuring all the oil actually in the engine (this is the variation the previous poster referred to). whether your car is level or not also drastically affects this reading.

so, you don't 'own' this; you maintained the car above and beyond what was required by the manufacturer (ie, ims replacement) and operated it as one could expect to operate any vehicle. to suggest that you are somehow responsible for a $15k engine failure is ignorant, but i commend your good spirit about it.

ekam 11-09-2011 10:23 AM

Sorry to hear about your loss, but I'd like to hear what Jake's findings are after the tear down. Losing 1 quart of oil seem a bit of a stretch to blow the engine.

Jake Raby 11-09-2011 11:06 AM

The engine was so bad that I can't tell really what happened first. I pulled the trophies out of it to be inducted as offerings to the Gods of Speed and the rest is already at the scrap yard.

pothole 11-10-2011 06:25 PM

I agree. Seems highly implausible that an oil level half way up the gauge in the safe zone is going to kill an engine in the course of street driving.

fivepointnine 11-10-2011 08:34 PM

oil pump failure?

MileHighBoxster 11-10-2011 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pothole (Post 263792)
I agree. Seems highly implausible that an oil level half way up the gauge in the safe zone is going to kill an engine in the course of street driving.

If you read his post he was in a tight turn accelerating with low engine oil. That could have done it.

Flavor 987S 11-11-2011 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MileHighBoxster (Post 263804)
If you read his post he was in a tight turn accelerating with low engine oil. That could have done it.

And it was poorly maintained, burning oil, and his "solution" was to routinely top off the oil level before spirited drives with a non Porsche approved oil viscosity, hoping the 10W40 would leak out a little slower than a 0W40, 5W40 or a 5W50. He admits it, owns it, and we respect that. Live & learn.

Jake Raby 11-11-2011 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fivepointnine (Post 263802)
oil pump failure?

Oil pump had no failure, it was still functional. I "Featured" this failure in my latest Flat 6 Innovations newsletter.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website