Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-05-2011, 09:29 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: canada
Posts: 7
IMS facebook webpage against Porsche failure

check this out.I just found this link:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=113061178726327&v=wall&viewas=0


Last edited by kx9862002; 01-05-2011 at 10:02 PM.
kx9862002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 09:40 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 266
They DID do something... they finally did away with the IMS altogether. In my opinion, they waited about 10 years too long though.
kcpaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 05:14 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 76
Only 13 members.
lifeisgood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 06:32 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wichita; KS
Posts: 144
I wonder where they got their 20% figure from.
__________________
2000 New Beetle / in search of 03 986S triple black
Caractere kit seam sealed, Caractere rear wing, 1 3/4" drop on coilovers, 235/40/18 Kuhmo XS on 18x8 Millie Miglia Spider II's, H2sport spindles, H&R front Sway bar, O-bar rear torsion, VF Eng. motor mounts, G60 12# flywheel, Nuespeed P-flow intake, Forge DV, Samco IP, Custom K04 turbo and Upsolute chip, 4 bar fpr, TT 2 1/2" SS DP, 2 1/2" custom stainless exhaust no muffler, Peleguin LSD, B&M SS, Momo 14" wheel, R32 steering rack.
yelojkt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 07:03 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,369
The 20% figure

has been posted on the net before. There has never been any scientific basis for it.

Recall that Porsche went through 3 different designs of the IMS trying for a reliable one before they eliminated it so it isn't fair to say they did nothing till they eliminated it.

20% of any make's engines will fail given enough time and miles. So the interesting figure to me is how many failures per year of driving.

If 400 LN IMSR kits have been sold per year against 200k cars on the road, that is a small number. Considering that some of those kits replace good bearings, some replace about-to-fail bearings, and some go into engines because another engine fails or the engine is being rebuilt...the number is pretty small on an actual failures per car per year basis. I don't know how many engines Porsche rebuilds a year but since the inventory has been said to be in the teens, can't be too many. Add in engines reused from totaled cars. And parted out cars.

And consider many of the cars failed for a different reasons...said to be 21 or 22 of them. And are never opened up so they get lumped into the "must be IMS" pile.



We obsess too much...because we love em.
mikefocke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 07:42 AM   #6
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
I don't know why everyone gets so caught up in percentages... To create a percentage thats anywhere near accurate an EXACT production number must be known as well as an exact failure number.. Neither of those can even come close to being calculated..

At any rate, I saw the FB page and it reminded me that I needed to start one for Flat 6, so i am working on that now.. It'll give a good place for us to post updates as they occur and host the pics we want to share quickly.. I'll be uploading pics all damn day now!
__________________
Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 08:17 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wichita; KS
Posts: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby
I don't know why everyone gets so caught up in percentages... To create a percentage thats anywhere near accurate an EXACT production number must be known as well as an exact failure number.. Neither of those can even come close to being calculated..
So true. Thus I stated "I wonder where they got their 20% from?" There is no way anyone could possibly know any numbers. But that doesn't stop them from stating it as a matter-of-fact.
__________________
2000 New Beetle / in search of 03 986S triple black
Caractere kit seam sealed, Caractere rear wing, 1 3/4" drop on coilovers, 235/40/18 Kuhmo XS on 18x8 Millie Miglia Spider II's, H2sport spindles, H&R front Sway bar, O-bar rear torsion, VF Eng. motor mounts, G60 12# flywheel, Nuespeed P-flow intake, Forge DV, Samco IP, Custom K04 turbo and Upsolute chip, 4 bar fpr, TT 2 1/2" SS DP, 2 1/2" custom stainless exhaust no muffler, Peleguin LSD, B&M SS, Momo 14" wheel, R32 steering rack.
yelojkt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 08:52 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 76
Like I've said they only got 13 members on the FB page.
lifeisgood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 10:52 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: canada
Posts: 7
true. they only have 13mems

kx9862002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 11:19 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,033
20% LOL. I bet it's closer to 2%. Porsche produced about 250,000 986's alone. If it was anywhere near 20% there would be 100 new posts on here everyday from people with actual failures and Porsche would have a serious problem on their hands. And their Facebook page would have a heck of a lot more than 13 members lol. If people are so damned worried about it either sell the car or take it to Raby. It's pretty simple really.
__________________
'03 3.2L GuardsRed/Blk/Blk---6Spd
Options: Litronics, 18" Carrera lights, Bose sound, Painted to match roll bars.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...Mautocross.jpg

Last edited by Adam; 01-06-2011 at 11:25 AM.
Adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 05:15 PM   #11
Autobahn Glanz
 
WhipE350's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,282
Garage
Let me change the channel and see what fear GB is stirring up. At 20% I think I'm going to hire a couple of great mechanics and make my million in the first year. Not doubting there is a flaw and I will check my filter regularly...but let's see if I can service 10% of 40,000 or 15 cars a day at $250.00 a car I would get my million. Really all kidding aside, hope I'm not in the %2. Cheers!!
WhipE350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 08:02 PM   #12
Porsche "Purist"
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,072
Garage
The reality is that if it happens to a 986 it is basically totaled from a financial view point.

I've told customers to avoid cars in the 80,000 to 120,000 mile range for years, once again I should have followed my own advice and traded my 01 in for a new car. I just don't want to part with a car that Peter Porsche autographed.

Jake puts up with a lot of comments from owners like me and others, but in the end, he is one of the few guys that actually cares enough about this problem to develop a fix.

For me, my very successful years owning and beating Porsches without an engine failure made me delay doing what I knew I should do. That and being way too busy....
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S. 2002 996TT. PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 06:45 AM   #13
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,704
^ can you really call it a fix though? That might be misleading. I think it may be better viewed as reducing an already low probability to an even lower likelyhood but you are still in the woods.

at any rate even if is 2% that's some pretty ****************ty engineering. or I should say ****************ty engineering for consecutive years. I guess some don't like to admit error.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011, 06:17 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Menlo Park, CA
Posts: 10
Complain to NHTSA about IMS failures

I have an 04 Boxster that had confirmed IMS failure last week at 58K miles. Dealer employees, including service managers, have admitted to me that they have a significant number of IMS failures in this engine, and didn’t deny that it should have been a recall. I didn’t know of this defect until it (probably) happened to me, and feel angry that Porsche sold me a car without revealing a fatal design flaw (sealed bearing with seal that fails in normal use, then relying on inadequate lubrication from crankcase oil splash).
When I called Porsche (1-800 Porsche), I was told there was no recall for the IMS defect because “the government orders recalls and they didn’t order a recall” for the IMS issue. Recalls are triggered by complaints to the NHTSA – not very many complaints, no recall. NHTSA complaints and investigations can be researched at their website: http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Owners . Between MY 2000 and 2005 there were only 6 IMS failures reported withe std or S Boxsters. Brief internet searches reveal that the actual failure rate is certainly much higher than these numbers would suggest. Complaints can easily be filed at the NHTSA website. If everyone with IMS failures went to the NHTSA website and filed a complaint, perhaps an investigation and thus a recall might be triggered. I’m not sure if a recall could be ordered for cars this old, but at least the relevant government agency should adequately notified. If the government took action, Porsche would be forced to respond.
dmatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2011, 07:42 AM   #15
Autobahn Glanz
 
WhipE350's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,282
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmatz
Between MY 2000 and 2005 there were only 6 IMS failures reported withe std or S Boxsters.
Probably because they weren't starting to fail yet, or folks just don't know to report it. Do those 6 cover the all reports up to today? Sorry it happened to you, is your car motor shot?
WhipE350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2011, 11:08 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Menlo Park, CA
Posts: 10
NHTSA complaints

My count from the NHTSA database was as of last week. I think people simply don't know about the complaint mechanism. I didn't untill I hit the internet. Yes, my motor is shot. I'm choosing to actually spend the money to resurrect my car by putting a crate engine in - about $18K. My advice: never name your car.

Last edited by dmatz; 04-28-2011 at 11:14 AM. Reason: remove reference to attachment that did't get attached
dmatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2011, 11:52 AM   #17
Registered User
 
Jager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: California
Posts: 1,817
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmatz
My count from the NHTSA database was as of last week. I think people simply don't know about the complaint mechanism. I didn't untill I hit the internet. Yes, my motor is shot. I'm choosing to actually spend the money to resurrect my car by putting a crate engine in - about $18K. My advice: never name your car.
How often did you change your oil? What brand of oil and wieght? How far did you drive on average after startup?

Thanks
Jager
Jager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2011, 12:12 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Menlo Park, CA
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jager
How often did you change your oil? What brand of oil and wieght? How far did you drive on average after startup?

Thanks
Jager
I now know (after the fact of the failure, and after learning of the defect only from the internet), that I was the poster child for IMS failure risk. I only changed oil at the Porsche-recommended intervals (15k miles; 0W40 Mobil1; dealer servicing), drove the car mildly (40 mi 2-way commute druing the week at moderate freeway speeds), and let the car sit for extended periods during winter, using another car. I think there may have been warning signs (something I now think may have been bearing grinding noise), but I didn't know I needed to be vigilant for these signs, so I didn't pay attention. Believe me, if I had known, I would have behaved differently. The mechanic at the dealer was probably checking for metal in the filter, but no one told me I should be listening for bearing noises.
dmatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2011, 12:22 PM   #19
Registered User
 
landrovered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Madison, Georgia
Posts: 1,012
Garage
The one positive of the IMS issue is I feel that I am doing a dis-service to my car if I do not drive it the way it was designed to be driven and it is a lot more fun to rev without guilt and to hoon without fear for lack of mechanical sympathy.
__________________
2001 Boxster S 3.6L, Zeintop
"Calling upon my years of experience, I froze at the controls." - Stirling Moss
landrovered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2011, 01:50 PM   #20
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,599
The Facebook page isn't really raging yet - 35 members and a few of those are people selling repair services.

__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page