"how to drive a stick" question

[yelojkt]

Originally Posted by sasha055

I'm not joking.. that's how I was tought to drive a stick back then.. it was the right thing to do for the car I was driving back home..
It feels wrong on boxster... that's why I'm asking.

Thanks
Sasha

PS: It seems that here in US not many people are driving stick... from all the people I know here, I'm the only one that drives a stick.

Stick with it Sasha. It is worth the effort. The joy of driving a manual car is something to behold, most certainly in a Boxster! Both of my boys had to learn to drive in a manual. I would not let them drive an automatic until they were proficient at driving a stick. I wanted it to "stick" with them; to be their first memory of driving. Thomas is learning right now and he is practicing at night when he cannot see his feet. Keeps him from looking down at the pedals. But then I can't see his feet either. He has yet to kill the car when comming to a stop. Last night I figured out why when he told me he was pushing in the clutch everytime he used the brake. He now knows that he only needs to use the clutch when shifting not when braking.

[ekam]

If you're jerking the car (no pun intended) then that means you're not shifting properly.

You need to rev match when downshifting or shift into gear from neutral at speed.

Search on youtube on "double clutching" and "heel and toe".

The only time that you would press both the clutch and brake pedals are when you're doing an emergency stop.

Yeah you're not driving if you have an auto. I learn that when I got this car.

[sasha055]

It wasn't a skoda.. it was a Lada

I love stick.. (that didn't sound right..)
I started driving stick when I was 13.. at 26 I moved to US, and bought a auto (I actually never saw automatic transmission car before moving to US)

I'll look into heel&toe videos.
I tried different styles of driving but it's hard to break old habbits.
Back home it was a rule to put it in neutral when going downhill.. I actually stopped the engine if the hill was longer to save gas. and when braking I always push clutch first.. it's an instinct.

Thanks
Sasha

[ekam]

The whole putting car in neutral to save gas thing no longer applies when electronic fuel injection engines became popular.

[sasha055]

Just watched the videos of "heel toe" and double clutching..

Double clutching feels like an overkill can't I rev a bit angine while I press clutch the first time?
"Heel toe" technique should be a sticky page in here.. it's priceless

Sasha

[yelojkt]

The only time that you should heel-toe is when you are driving the car at it's full potential. Race car drivers and people who drive HSTs heel-toe because they wait until the last second to brake for a turn. They never coast. It is gas or brake. And when you are trying to get into a corner fast while braking and shifting you need an extra leg for the accelorator pedal to rev match. So you use your heel. This is an advanced driving technique and should not be used on the street, in most cases.

[ekam]

Originally Posted by yelojkt

The only time that you should heel-toe is when you are driving the car at it's full potential. Race car drivers and people who drive HSTs heel-toe because they wait until the last second to brake for a turn. They never coast. It is gas or brake.

I don't think that's true. You can slow down with your foot on the brake before doing heel and toe.

[pothole]

Originally Posted by yelojkt

The only time that you should heel-toe is when you are driving the car at it's full potential. Race car drivers and people who drive HSTs heel-toe because they wait until the last second to brake for a turn. They never coast. It is gas or brake. And when you are trying to get into a corner fast while braking and shifting you need an extra leg for the accelorator pedal to rev match. So you use your heel. This is an advanced driving technique and should not be used on the street, in most cases.

Nonsense. Heel and toe is a perfectly legitimate way to drive on the street. In fact, it's the only way to drive if you want to drive smoothly and in full control. You certainly don't need to be anywhere near the limit to do it or to benefit from it. Heel and toe is not actually about getting into corners fast, it's about matching road speed and engine speed. It also just happens to reduce wear on the clutch.

[clickman]

Originally Posted by yelojkt

Both of my boys had to learn to drive in a manual. I would not let them drive an automatic until they were proficient at driving a stick.

Huh? Teaching a new driver should include giving them as few unnecessary distractions as possible. Fiddling with gas and clutch while trying to deal with traffic, lights, etc is not going to get a newby confident and safe as quickly as possible. Sure, once they're comfortable on the road, if you feel the need to take a chance on damaging your manual car during the learning process, go for it.

[ekam]

Originally Posted by clickman

Huh? Teaching a new driver should include giving them as few unnecessary distractions as possible. Fiddling with gas and clutch while trying to deal with traffic, lights, etc is not going to get a newby confident and safe as quickly as possible. Sure, once they're comfortable on the road, if you feel the need to take a chance on damaging your manual car during the learning process, go for it.

Please tell us how they did this before there is automatic transmission? My god think of the children.

[Frodo]

While coasting downhill is something I don't do very often, in my mind it's not necessarily a cardinal sin per se. When you're in gear, you have a little better feel for what the car's gonna do: push the accelerator, it's going to speed up; let off the accelerator, you're going to get a little engine braking, slowing you a bit (or at least decreasing your gravity-driven acceleration, depending on what gear you are in and how steep the hill is).

I guess you could make the argument that you might "lose valuable seconds" getting back in gear if something unexpected occurs but, in my experience, that's almost never a factor when evading a problem. When such a 'surprise' happens, my first impulse is to either steer around it or utilize the brakes, often a combo of the two. Occasionally I'll accelerate to remedy such a condition, but that's pretty unusual. And when it does occur, it tends be in situations where you have those few seconds in which to get the car back in gear and then react. In my experience, it's rarely (if ever) a split-second emergency where instant ability to accelerate is required.

If I am coasting and then need to get the car back into gear, I'll do the rev-match thing when going from neutral to whatever gear I'm going into, and then again as I release the clutch so I don't get that 'chirp' at the wheels and overly jolt the drivetrain. That does take some practice.

The problem with coasting downhill, especially steep hills, is that you're in kind of a "freefall" mode, and you may well end up traveling faster than you want to be going for conditions. Unless, of course, you're riding the brakes, which is also not ideal. Like I said, I don't do it very often. But I will occasionally, normally in those situations where I see that I'm going to need to stop not too far down the road and that it's extremely unlikely I'll need to get it back into any gear other than first once I've come to a stop. An example is if I'm at a fairly slow speed and I'm coming to a red light on a gentle downhill slope. No big deal.

[clickman]

Originally Posted by ekam

Please tell us how they did this before there is automatic transmission? My god think of the children.

My god how did we drive our Pcars before the wheel was invented?

[yelojkt]

Originally Posted by clickman

Huh? Teaching a new driver should include giving them as few unnecessary distractions as possible. Fiddling with gas and clutch while trying to deal with traffic, lights, etc is not going to get a newby confident and safe as quickly as possible. Sure, once they're comfortable on the road, if you feel the need to take a chance on damaging your manual car during the learning process, go for it.

Clickman Please don't take this wrong but...Oh my goodness did you think at all before writing this. You talk like I put my kid in the car in downtown rush hour traffic and said "Go for it kid" They both started in a big empty parking lot learning to be semi-proficient with their start and stoping skills. Than I take them into a commerical area where they can practice on streets with no traffic. This way they are as safe as possible while gaining confidence. And how in the world are they going to damage my car learning to drive it. I drive the piss out of my car and have over 200,000 miles on it. I'm sure all those thousands of hours of driving plus all the autocrossing and track time I have put on my car have been alot more punishing on the mechanicals than the few short weeks it takes my two boys to learn. This whole time I am riding with them ready to give them any advice they may need when they need it. I love spending this time with my kids and it is something I hope they remember just as I remember learning to drive in a 68 beetle as a 14 year old way back in good old 1979. Although my mom was the one teaching because my dad just did not have the patience. Peace dude.

[clickman]

Originally Posted by yelojkt

Clickman Please don't take this wrong but...Oh my goodness did you think at all before writing this. You talk like I put my kid in the car in downtown rush hour traffic and said "Go for it kid" They both started in a big empty parking lot learning to be semi-proficient with their start and stoping skills. Than I take them into a commerical area where they can practice on streets with no traffic. This way they are as safe as possible while gaining confidence. And how in the world are they going to damage my car learning to drive it. I drive the piss out of my car and have over 200,000 miles on it. I'm sure all those thousands of hours of driving plus all the autocrossing and track time I have put on my car have been alot more punishing on the mechanicals than the few short weeks it takes my two boys to learn. This whole time I am riding with them ready to give them any advice they may need when they need it. I love spending this time with my kids and it is something I hope they remember just as I remember learning to drive in a 68 beetle as a 14 year old way back in good old 1979. Although my mom was the one teaching because my dad just did not have the patience. Peace dude.

Sorry, don't buy it. It's experience in the action of traffic that counts, not in a parking lot or empty streets.
BTW you have an interesting way of seeking "peace" (dude), by asking someone if they think at all before writing. I can't think of a much more insulting comment to make to someone that participates in a forum.

[jmatta]

I have no idea how you could drive on the street or track without rev-matching your downshifts...it's all second nature and I don't even think about it. When I drive with someone who doesn't understand rev-matching, it's always "herky-jerky" and never smooth...just think what the drive train is experiencing?