Blown Engine
 

Does anybody know how much is a 2002 boxter engine 2.7 H6 new or rebuilt???

Search engine failure threads on this site. The number I've heard commonly bounced around is $13,000 installed for a factory replacement. Flat6Innovations can build you something better than factory, but it probably won't be any less, and it could be substantially more with performance enhancements.

Agreed...click the upper right hand ad for Flat6...and read the engine posts on this forum. It will definitely steer you away from the temptations of an eBay/salvage yard motor!

It's all about cost
 

If it's going to cost a bundle, them you might consider on buying another Porsche and sell the one you have as is. I seen some nice Boxster S and Carrera's for sale at very attractive prices...new and preowned:cheers:

How did you blow your engine?

Your options...
 

http://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/sowhatcanyoudoiftheengineblows%3F

And the short answer $4k-20k depending...

Hey Tony,

If you haven't, I suggest you click flat6innovations logo in the upper right corner of this page and call Jake Raby.

After my second engine failure, Jake walked me thru my options (about 45minutes of his time). Jake is the leading authority on fixing and maintaining our engines, and, he's a nice guy.

He might be able to give you some good suggestions. Best of luck.

I just replaced the 3.2 engine in my 2001 S with a used eBay engine and my total cost was approximately $8k

Engine $5k
Shipping, parts & installation $3k

Blown Engine
 

I haven't blown the engine as a matter of fact my car only has 1128 and 1130 CE cell codes on. But I hear in different blogs that 2 out of 10 cars sold suffer from IMS problems so I'm kind of scared about it because as the other fellow said can cost $4 to 20 thousand to fix depends. But they also say that most of them happen before 50 thousand miles and mine has 80,000 so hopefully I have a better chance!!!!!. how often it happens????

No one really knows
 

the percentage of IMS failures except Porsche and there is no way they would tell.

Change your oil every 5k miles and drive it seems to be the best defense. If you are really worried, change the IMS bearing to a LNengineering bearing.

Excellent article, thanks!

Another thing I've noticed about owners that I have replaced motors for:

Almost all of them sell the car within a year. When I ask why, they usually say: "It was running fine, but I can't trust the car anymore so I sold it while it was still in good shape."

tiptronic
 

Based on the article the failure happens more on stick shift cars than tiptronic cars, the oil change is expensive but if you change the oil every 5000 miles and add a PROLONG bottle to it every time you change oil it should be maybe the only way to fight this problem. The key is maintaining the bearings lubricated to the max. anybody know for 80000 miles the oil that I should put???

The IMS bearing that fails is not lubricated by engine oil.

Plenty of debate here on oils and no one right answer or even much consensus besides many thumbs down on Mobil 1, with "it's not what it used to be" being the common refrain. Look em up and read to your heart's content. Everyone's got their pet brands for varying reasons. There seem to be a number of good choices available. Some use 0W40, others 5 or 10, and some W50. I don't recall seeing anyone recommending a different oil based on mileage. If you're changing often enough, it seems this shouldn't be an issue.

My car's a little over 70k and I've been using Mobil 1 0W40 since 43k. Seems fine. When Jake did my IMS retrofit recently, we spoke at length about oils and he never said to start using a different weight at a certain mileage, just be diligent about changing it every 5k. He was referring to general engine health, not the IMS bearing which, as the last poster said, is sealed.

Based on the fact that the M1 0W40 can be a PITA to get around here (gotta order it by the case a week in advance) and LN Engineering, developer of the IMS retrofit bearing, sells 5 liter bottles of Motul 8100 5W50 for not much more, I'm going to buy a case of 4 - 5l bottles and give that a spin.

Not that expensive
 

I buy my filter and crush ring mail order, but the oil at a discount store. And for $32 my local fast-lube place puts it in (I'm lazy and old). Total around $60. So it comes out maybe $25 more than for my Honda. And a little more work to assemble the parts but not much..I buy in quantity. Heck I even hand them a freshly cleaned oil filler plug just because I have an extra one.

The IMS bearing is designed to not be lubed by oil (sealed grease) but, when the inner seal fails and the oil penetrates to the bearing, the oil is all the lubrication it gets. So the condition of the oil does matter to the life of the bearing.

The LNengineering replacement bearing is designed to be oil-lubed.

Every 5k or sooner. Good quality oil. No additives.

I've heard a rumor that Porsche is having a sale on Cayman S 3.4 factory rebuilt motors for $7000 with no core charge and a 2 year warranty.

Ims
 

Are all your Boxters stick shifts?????

Yes, both are 5 speeds.

newbie
 

hi everyone i'm brand new and this is my first post ever.We (wife and I) bought a 2002s last summer i have fallen in love with it,its a complete joy.So now after reading about ims failure and the fact we have no previous maint. doc. and no maintenence agreement i get a scared feeling every time i drive it! It has 44kmi and 6spd stk yellow black top,we posted it on craigslist.

If you love it so much, why sell it? The chance of engine failure exists in every car, and although the threat of IMS failure is real, there are ways to alleviate or reduce the likelihood of an IMS failure. You can easily search for them here. Forums like this one are full of people who are really into their cars and tend to talk about every aspect of the car, some good and some bad, more than your average consumer. Porsches are high performance sports cars and require more maintenance and care than say an old Honda or Chevy but the driving experience is worth the cost. Don't give into fear and sell the car out of a "possible" failure that has not occurred and may not ever occur.

Otis. Drive the car! Do not be afraid of it. There are many cars that have over 100k on the clock and are modded. Some even turbo. Any car can break at any time. Just change the oil a bit more than normal is my opinion. I change mine every 2k. I use castrol syntec 5/40 the car feels great with that in it. Just think of all the boxster owners who are not actually interested in the car it self but just to drive a something that says Porsche. These people have no idea what IMS or any of that is. Put the top down, get some coffee and enjoy the ride. :cheers:

scared
 

I'm not sure if this is how or where to reply but here goes,So from Alaska to NY says drive it and don't worry about it.Ok so can i call a dealer with the vin# to find documented services? I read someone bought a warrenty but had to have maint. docs then has to show subsequent serices,i have already changed the oil myself mobil 1 synth.and have serviced and fixed modded for years i'm 52 i have a great home shop with a 2 post lift and never been beat by anything to date.Mabey a warrenty would help me sleep.I still think my car is the best most fun car iv'e had to date.thanks for any and all input

Otis - drive it like you stole it!!
Anything can go pop and some of them are as expensive to fix as the Boxster.
There are a couple of aftermarket warranty threads, check them out. They look reasonably priced for the best ones.
I opted to use the cash I was going to use to buy an 04 outright and put it down on an 06, factory certified from my local dealer, for my long term warranty (very reasonable 4 year financing).
In either case, you're not going to get the performance and balance of the Boxster from anything else, for anywhere near the cost.

LN Engineering has an improved IMS retrofit kit and Jake Raby of Flat6Innovations offers solutions to many deficiencies in the M96 engine. They have posted hundreds of times on this subject. Search their posts and respective websites for valuable information. Warranty is good but have their faults as well.

Drive it, replacing a motor in a Boxster is an easy job with a 2 post lift.

Ims
 

for some reason most IMS problems happen on stick shift cars before 50000 miles
why????

starting to calm down(IMS)
 

I looked at Jake Raby's flat six innovations ims fix,it looks like something i could do without too much trouble.I did go to Porsche with my baby's vin and there is no history of any warranty work whatsoever. I don't know if thats good or bad?Anyway i emailed Jake to see what he thinks about supplying me with the goods,my girl has 44kmi.

If you do your own wrenching then do it! Cheap insurance. I'm about to hit 90k On the way home tonight and am just getting started.
Chris

When down at Jake's in Oct for my IMS retrofit, we spoke at length about their very tight control of these bearings, and maintaining strict installation quality control through a certified installers program. This is to make absolutely sure that the job is being done right by someone properly trained, and to prevent fraud. Either of these issues would seriously compromise what they're trying to do, devalue all Flat6 and LN Engineering's many years of costly development work, and to some extent devalue the significant cost of the retrofit for guys like me who paid full boat to have the job done right. The quality of the installation is easily important as - if not more important than - having the proper bearing.

Every bearing and engine/car that has the bearing installed is registered and there's a lot of pre and post installation evaluation that's done and documented for their internal use and for the owner's records. There are a number of anti-fraud measures they've developed and implemented as well. If you have your car done by Jake or one of the handful of certified installers, then you'll obviously be privy to that information.

Call Jake or LN Engineer and ask if they'll sell you a bearing, but I can already tell you what the answer will be.

ims retro
 

i'm so new to the Porsche world i'm sorry if i offended anyone,i'm just so used to doing everything myself.Sorry :)

I purchased my Boxster with about 65k miles on it in late June of this year and it has a little over 74k miles on it now. My wife and I drove to Miami, Fl for Christmas and put about 2300 miles on it in 10 days. I try not to think of whatever could break and just enjoy driving the car and you should try to also. IMHO

I don't think you offended anyone, and how could you have known about a conversation that took place privately?

No offense taken. Hey, I try to do as much as I can myself, too. Wish I had your can-do attitude and level of skill to take on major projects. Most I can handle is a little more than pretty basic stuff, but that does take a big bite out of maintenance and repair costs. This forum has been a huge help, giving me the confidence to take on projects I might not normally have tried, and saving me big $$$.

If you saw what was involved with the IMS retrofit, you'd definitely have a greater appreciation for why they limit installations to only a handful of certified mechanics and why it's so costly. Jake clearly sweats the details, which is necessary when engine health is at stake. All the certified installers are probably the same way. Lots of talented people on this forum who probably do have the skills to do the job right with the proper training.

Not to contradict you, but last I heard, Jake wasn't limiting sales of the retrofit bearing in any way. Maybe with the economic downturn, he's trying to keep more work in-house? They can also be bought thru LN Engineering, and the tools (puller) can even be rented.

There's no reason a competent mechanic couldn't do the retrofit, there are at least several people who have already done so. If you want to see exactly what's involed, and judge for yourself, check out the Pelicanparts.com forum . In the "Tech info center" they have a very detailed pictoral of a complete engine tear-down, which shows the bearing replacement steps, as does LN's website.

I would do it on my own car, but I have an '06 so I can't! I'm not sure if that is a good thing, or a bad thing ?

Steve

OK, I stand corrected, at least partially. I checked out the removal/installation procedure on pelicanparts.com. Looks like a piece of cake. :-) Seriously, it doesn't look too bad. It's also detailed just as well on flat6innovations.com. I saw some of it first hand when my car was being done.

I've never had any contact w/LN Engineering, although I've seen Charles Navarro's posts and seen their site before, but not recently. As you said, they're selling the single and double row bearings & renting the puller. They're in business to make $. If they're OK with selling the bearing to anyone, who can fault them?

Maybe I misunderstood Jake; he may have said HE wasn't selling the bearing, only installing it and training/certifying other people to do it. AFAIK, LNE only develops, manufactures and sells parts and doesn't get involved with installations in customer cars or training. The latter is Jake's bailiwick. If your bearing hasn't yet failed, it does seem an experienced mechanic or DIYer could handle the retrofit. If the engine has failed and there's a question as to whether the IMS bearing was the sole cause or a contributing factor, that's where things can get a lot more complicated and intimate knowledge of this engine and all of its "modes of failure" - to use Jake's term - becomes much more valuable.

From what he told me, there's a real lack of M96 rebuilding knowledge out there among experienced mechanics, particularly dealer mechanics, because Porsche only wanted to sell and swap complete engines. As the value of cars with this engine has dropped, mileage is racked up, warranties end, and Porsche jacks the prices of its remanufactured engines way up, the demand for rebuilding and repair has increased. Jake told me he loves to share his knowledge and teach, so much so that his new shop building has a dedicated classroom that includes pro level equipment for producing instructional videos. (Yeah, yeah, I know what you're thinking. Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more. ;-) ) There are thousands of candidates for the retrofit out there and even if he did them full time he'd only be able to do a very small percentage of them (all his words). Why not do what he loves and share his knowledge through training? And so he does.

I didn't see any evidence that he has any shortage of business or is trying to keep all the IMSR business for himself. People ship cars to him from all over the country, and engines from all over the world, so I think this means something about what he offers. When I was there a 986 from CA with a failed engine was shipped in, an engine was being sent out to Russia that had been shipped in for an IMS retrofit (maybe other stuff as well), and he was rebuilding a $30k race engine for a GT3. I had to make my appointment 2 months in advance.

So what's my point? Forget a minute about the guys who are skilled enough to do this job themselves (more power to them). As someone who had to pay for this retrofit to be done, I felt much more comfortable taking my car to a guy who knows the procedure (he'd done around 20 of them at that time), the product and the engine inside and out. I wasn't anxious to have even a very talented local mechanic learn/train on my car, labor cost issues aside. Having the benefit of Jake's expertise didn't cost me any more than if I'd attempted to have the job done locally. My clutch was done at the same time, as was the RMS. Subtracting what these would have cost me locally (parts & labor) and the cost of the bearing & puller rental - if I were to attempt this job myself (ha!) - and the net labor cost to have him do the IMSR was ~$1,000. For the level of expertise and the quality of the result I got, that's a great value in my book. All things to think about if DIY isn't an option.

The person who can do the bearing can also undoubtedly do his clutch and the RMS. For such a highly skilled person, now the cost for Jake to do the job is more like $2000-$2500, probably not worth it.

No problem, I just didn't want to see someone discouraged from doing an upgrade that COULD prevent an expensive failure. Not everyone can afford to pay Jake to do it, though I admit that is the most fool-proof option. Others just enjoy the challange of working on their cars. I certainly wouldn't attemp a complete rebuild, though a few owners have.
Happy New Year!
Steve

Interesting that the guy demoing the bearing replacement on Pelican admitted he installed the bearing incorrectly!

Cilinder Walls
 

I calle flat6 innovations to order the retrofit kit for my 2002 boxter 2.7 and the guy told me that even if I changed the IMS bearing in my car since my engine has 80,000 miles on in I still have the problem of a pisible cilinder wall crack and he said he has not seen many M96 engines pass the 100000 miles and he said it happens more on the 99 models!! how true it??????

Tony, I think you need to take a deep breath and relax a bit. Many people with Boxsters never have any issues at all with their engines. I have had my car for 8yrs now, and the only thing that has broken on me was a coolant tank that cracked which needed replacing (dealer replaced on warranty for free), a peeling radio knob (also replaced on warranty), a worn motor mount (easy replacement), and a water pump that needed replacing at 60k miles. I have had no engine problems whatsover, and I have only changed my oil at 12-15k intervals, and have used only Mobil 0W-40 motor oil.

If you are that worried about your engine imploding (and you shouldn't be), then you can have the LN Engineering IMS bolt retrofit done, but do realize that many people never have these updates done to their cars, and yet, their cars still make it over 100K miles. Don't let people scare you into thinking you have to do so many upgrades on your car. Even if your engine does implode one day, you can always source a used engine, and then have an LN engineering IMS bolt retrofit added onto it before dropping it in your car. In the meantime, I suggest you just continue driving and enjoying your car, and don't let the horror stories you read about come in the way of you enjoying your car.

Scare tactics.

Enjoy your car.