sigh.. CEL - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

stateofidleness · 10-03-2009, 10:26 AM

car running fine with no problems.. got home from work last night, washed it and stored it for the weekend... (change in weather overnight.. lots of rain and overcast now). go to run some errands today and about a mile from home, the CEL comes on, but car is running fine. It is a solid CEL and not flashing...

I am trying to get a hold of a OBD scanner at the moment but I am nervous driving with a CEL on.. is it safe/stupid/bad for engine if i drive with a CEL?

i have noticed lately that sometimes, about 10 seconds after starting the car, the idle would "hunt" for a second or two around 500rpms and then slowly "normalize" itself and run fine...

please don't say MAF

Alex Walker · 10-03-2009, 11:28 AM

Man that sucks. Go to an advance auto parts and ask for a scanner. They can scan it for free and give you the code. The hunting thing with the RPMs, I've noticed that on mine to when there isn't a CEL so I'm guessing that's normal.

Topless · 10-03-2009, 11:48 AM

Don't panic. A solid CEL is something that needs attention but no immediate danger to car or driver. Get your codes read ASAP and report back here along with year, model, mileage, and any recent work or mods done.

vath2001 · 10-03-2009, 11:54 AM

I've driven for 3 months with a CEL.. but then I know why its on.
If it starts flashing... shut it down!!

stateofidleness · 10-03-2009, 11:59 AM

ok, ended up buying a reader (only $59 at AutoZone) and got the codes:

Car Specs:
2000 non-S
no mods
54k miles
oil change 3k miles ago
no other issues with car

Codes are:
0410 and 1411

which appear to be (respectively):
P0410 Secondary Air Injection System - Signal Implausible (Cylinders 1 - 3)
P1411 Secondary Air Injection System - Signal Implausible (Cylinders 4 - 6)

is this an MAF issue or something simpler? I bought maf cleaner while i was there, but would like to not have to dig into the engine compartment if unnecessary.

thoughts?

vath2001 · 10-03-2009, 12:05 PM

Same codes I have!!
Look at the post called Help!
You probably need a new air pump valve and new switch.

Help!

stateofidleness · 10-03-2009, 12:22 PM

I erased the codes using the reader and then restarted & let the car run for about 15 minutes (minor revs throughout) and the light did not return.

now, I'm smart enough to know that this didn't "fix" the problem, but has put me at ease for the time being... good to know I can drive with it if I need to as well.

I am taking it in tomorrow for non-related routine maintenance anyway so I will have my guy check it out as well.

*stupid question warning*

would washing the car and getting water in a "no water zone" cause this? I did manage to wash EVERYTHING and probably aimed the hose in some wrong places... just a thought, but curious.

thanks guys

vath2001 · 10-03-2009, 12:30 PM

Washing the car won't cause this. Just a stuck valve or a vacuum leak not allowing the valve to fire.

If you happen to change these before me... please take some pics of the job.
Good luck

mikefocke · 10-03-2009, 02:58 PM

Link

Could be any of a half dozen things, probably an air leak.

Topless · 10-03-2009, 04:58 PM

Good flow chart with diagram Mike.

Probably not MAF related. If the problem occurred soon after a little invasive washing you may have gotten the pump or a relay wet and toasted a fuse. Real easy fix. Also check for loose or damaged wiring to the air injection pump. The "signal implausible" term is a weak German/English translation for "open circuit" or "no signal" from the sensor.

Good luck with your fix. Definitely not the end of the world.

stateofidleness · 10-03-2009, 05:23 PM

was kinda hopin' it was an MAF problem now lol.. seems like an easier fix.. the word "pump" makes me think $$$...

anything I can fairly easily self-diagnose (the fuse you mention) before taking it in tomorrow?

stateofidleness · 10-05-2009, 04:19 PM

so yesterday i made a quick run to the ice house after clearing the CEL to see if it would come back. when I started it, it BARELY started!!! what the... like OVERNIGHT my car went from fun as hell to omg i hope i don't break down...

so.. i drive it to work today and when i started it this morning, i see this big puff of white smoke! i know i know, but this isn't the normal white smoke, larger puff than normal, and it did the "sputter" thing like it was hunting for the right idle, then it normalized... still no CEL, idled ok i guess.

i've been reading a lot about the different possible causes and what all is involved with replacing certain items. im pretty sure i hear the "small hoover" sound at startup that is supposed to be the air pump, but one man's hoover is another man's "whirring" or "whining" so im not sure if it's the right noise..

How much would a new air changeover valve (exact name?), AOS, and electric changeover valve cost to replace? parts only.

also, i have read that the alternator needs to be removed for the air and electric c/o valve (ugh.. bad memories there) so how many hours of labor would replacing these 3 items take?

anything else I should have my mechanic check while he's in there?

vath2001 · 10-05-2009, 05:11 PM

996-605-123-01-M244 Change-Over Valve for Air Injection, 993 Carrera 2/4 (1996-98), $23.50 Pelican parts

993-113-245-01-M100 Cut-Off Valve for Air Injection, 993 Carrera 2/4 (1996-98), Each, $104.75 Pelican parts

But your description sounds a lot worse.

stateofidleness · 10-06-2009, 06:40 AM

I have a 2000
anyone know the EXACT part I need (a link would be awesome, not particular about vendor, just price)

I think I'm going to tackle the AOS myself and see if that fixes some of it...

I would like the AOS itself (the revised version if it will work for my car)
and possibly the tubes or other parts I might find myself needing during the install.

2000 non-S, 52k miles, Tiptronic

Thanks!

Topless · 10-06-2009, 02:48 PM

Gentle suggestion,
Use the TS flow chart and pinpoint the failure first, then fix the problem. Changing the AOS or the MAF might be fun but it will not fix air injection pump issues. Did you check for a blown fuse? Your manual will show location and fused circuits ID. It really could be that simple.

stateofidleness · 10-06-2009, 05:23 PM

opened it up tonight to see if there was oil everywhere and it isn't too bad.. i have oil here:

i'm having it looked at tomorrow and was wondering if it's safe to drive to the mechanic

stateofidleness · 10-16-2009, 04:58 PM

ok, so had some diagnostics ran, found out the oil separator was bad and had a vacuum leak... replaced the oil separator and now no more smoke and no more CEL's, BUT I still have a scary hunt for idle on startup...

tonight was the worst... started it (starts fine every time) and it started hunting right away, usually it will "catch" itself after like 5 seconds, this time it went on for a good thirty seconds and I heard some (hate to use the word "knocking"), but it sounded like the cars in the movies that run out of gas... heard it about 3 times (sounded like a "burp" or loud "gurgle" if that makes sense)

it only started doing that if i lightly rev'ed it to get the rpm's up.

mechanic said it might need some time after the AOS replacement to get back to normal.. but I had never heard my car make those noises before and the idle hunt was exactly the same as before the AOS replacement, just no smoke..

ONLY 53k miles!! WTF! i lose faith in Porsche's dependability a little bit more every day... when they're working, they're a blast, when they're not, it's the biggest pain in the ass.. and it seems like way more frequent than on other cars.. what gives??

stateofidleness · 10-16-2009, 05:00 PM

EDIT: could this also be caused by the MAF? I was going to attempt a "clean" before I had my mechanic do the AOS.. should I still do it? What is causing this wicked idle hunt?

Bladecutter · 10-17-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stateofidleness

ONLY 53k miles!! WTF! i lose faith in Porsche's dependability a little bit more every day... when they're working, they're a blast, when they're not, it's the biggest pain in the ass.. and it seems like way more frequent than on other cars.. what gives??

Its time for you to step away from the car and take a couple nice, deep relaxing breaths. You are getting wound up too much about the car.

Yes, it is possible that it is the MAF sensor causing the issue, BUT you would be better off if you first started by cleaning the throttle body, since you had an AOS failure, there is bound to be lots of carbon build up on it.

I am sure that once you clean the throttle body, your hunting will be reduced, if not eliminated. If you want, you can even buy some MAF cleaner, and spray it down, too.

I have a '98 with nearly 89k miles on it, which I bought back in February, and I've put on 10k of those miles myself. I just had to replace the MAF yesterday on my car, because it went bad, and set off the P0102 code, and I checked its functionality with my Durametrics program, and saw that it was out of spec. That cost me $180 to replace, but its the first actual problem the car has had in the 10k miles I've put on the car.

I'm just glad I bought the Durametrics tool back in the summer so that when I needed it, there it was. If you don't have that, you might want to invest in it, if you are mechanically inclined, that is.

BC.

stateofidleness · 10-17-2009, 02:46 PM

maybe I will try tackling the TB and MAF cleaning tomorrow. I actually bought a can of MAF cleaner when I bought the scanning tool in preparation for the MAF clean so all set in that regard.

just.. the sound it makes at startup is SCARY lol... you know when you have a water bottle and you blow back into the straw to make bubbles, that's kinda what it sounds like, but ONE big bubble.

it did it again this morning, started it, let it run for about 5 seconds until i heard it happen, turned it off immediately, then restarted it immediately and it was smooth??? confused

really hope it isn't internal engine problems or something and something eas(read cheap) to fix

the fact that it runs great (even feels better now that the AOS was replaced) when it is warm means the internals should be fine right?

the startup thing is my only issue and after that "burp" i smell a STRONG gas smell from the tailpipe.. I had read that maybe its the air change over valve? I don't want to ruin the cats...