Oil Analysts

[941MXVET]

In an effort to share knowledge which may be pertinent to our cars, I'd like to share 2 VOA's I have recentaly done.


Car: 986
Miles: 44,xxx
Oil: Royal Purple 5w-40

Elements:

Anti_F N
Fuel <.5
Water Neg
V100 13.3
OXI 15
NIT 6
Sulf 21
Cu 0
Fe 1
Cr 0
Pb 0
Al 3
Si 2
Mo 172
Na 5
Mg 15
Sn 0
Zn 764
Ni 0
K 3
Ca 1696
P 644



Second sample:

Car:964
Miles: 68,xxx
Oil: Redline 15w-50


Elements:


Anti_f N
Fuel <.5
Water Neg
V100 19.1
OXI 145
NIT 7
Sulf 133
Cu 0
Fe 2
Cr 0
Pb 0
Al 10
Si 1
Mo 686
Na 15
Mg 7
Sn 0
Zn 1180
Ni 0
K 3
Ca 2408
P 1007





I hope this can help in making some oil decisions.

[demick]

Sorry, but even if I was able to understand and interpret the oil analysis, any comparison is completely useless.

Two different cars, with two different types of engines, with different total age and mileage, driven under unknown conditions for an unknown number of miles, with different brand and weight of oil, is hardly a way to make any comparison, much less draw any conclusions.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by 941MXVET

In an effort to share knowledge which may be pertinent to our cars, I'd like to share 2 VOA's I have recentaly done.


Car: 986
Miles: 44,xxx
Oil: Royal Purple 5w-40

Elements:

Anti_F N
Fuel <.5
Water Neg
V100 13.3
OXI 15
NIT 6
Sulf 21
Cu 0
Fe 1
Cr 0
Pb 0
Al 3
Si 2
Mo 172
Na 5
Mg 15
Sn 0
Zn 764
Ni 0
K 3
Ca 1696
P 644



Second sample:

Car:964
Miles: 68,xxx
Oil: Redline 15w-50


Elements:


Anti_f N
Fuel <.5
Water Neg
V100 19.1
OXI 145
NIT 7
Sulf 133
Cu 0
Fe 2
Cr 0
Pb 0
Al 10
Si 1
Mo 686
Na 15
Mg 7
Sn 0
Zn 1180
Ni 0
K 3
Ca 2408
P 1007





I hope this can help in making some oil decisions.

Did they add a commentary. If so, can you post that?

Thanks

[941MXVET]

Originally Posted by demick

Sorry, but even if I was able to understand and interpret the oil analysis, any comparison is completely useless.

Two different cars, with two different types of engines, with different total age and mileage, driven under unknown conditions for an unknown number of miles, with different brand and weight of oil, is hardly a way to make any comparison, much less draw any conclusions.

These were VOA's or Virgin Oil Analysts. I had the samples tested before I put them in the car. After I change the current oil out of the cars I'll have UOA's done, a UOA is useless with out first having a starting point. (IMHO)


As far as a drive report and miles, I'll include them with the UOA's.

[941MXVET]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Did they add a commentary. If so, can you post that?

Thanks

Yes, but because these were VOA's, an effort to record a starting point for further tests, I didn't bother posting them.

But since you asked, I'll be glad to pass them on!

Royal Purple
Comment: "Condition Satisfactory for this sample, resample at next scheduled interval."


Redline
Comment: "Condition Satisfactory for this sample, resample at next scheduled interval. Sample note: Had 15w-50 as grade."

I don't know why the lab included a sample note with the Redline sample and not the RP.

[JFP in PA]

Did they supply a "total base number" or "TBN"; I don't see it in your post?

[demick]

[QUOTE=941MXVET]These were VOA's or Virgin Oil Analysts. I had the samples tested before I put them in the car. After I change the current oil out of the cars I'll have UOA's doneQUOTE]

Ahhh, that makes sense. For us dummies, it would be nice to know how to interpret each line item.

Example:
Zn: Acceptable range: 500-2000. Higher number is better

^^^ like this, only I totally made up these numbers.

Demick

[941MXVET]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Did they supply a "total base number" or "TBN"; I don't see it in your post?

No, they didn't supply TBN. I need to look up exactly what "OXI" is an abrevation for. The E-mail I recieved from the lab is on my work computer, I'll try to access my account and find out. I suspect they might be related.


Demick, I'm not an expert, just an interested owner. There are a few members who's opinions I'd love to hear about these tests, and I don't mind providing the info!

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by 941MXVET

No, they didn't supply TBN. I need to look up exactly what "OXI" is an abrevation for. The E-mail I recieved from the lab is on my work computer, I'll try to access my account and find out. I suspect they might be related.

TBN is a critical value as it is a strong indicator of the overall remaining life left in the oil. The elemental analysis is fine, buy you need to see physical properties as well (viscosities, fuel dilution %, antifreeze dilution %, water, insoluble’s, TBN, TAN, etc.) in the final report for both the before and after analysis………………

[941MXVET]

O.K. I accessed my account, but I couldn't fine out much:

V100 was listed as Viscosity 100 (?)
OXI was listed as oxidation (again (?))
NIT was listed as nitration (even more (?))

I hoped this helped, it's still somewhat new to me.

Here is a link to the lab I'm using, it lists TBN\TAN in the units of testing, but I'm not finding it in my report.:


http://www.cashmanequipment.com/Units-of-Testing.htm

[941MXVET]

JFP,

I spoke with the lab, they do not do TBN's for gas engine samples.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by 941MXVET

JFP,

I spoke with the lab, they do not do TBN's for gas engine samples.

Ask them why not, it is an important value..............

From a well known lab's website:

"Do I Need a TBN?

What is a TBN, and who uses it? In short, a TBN (total base number) measures the amount of active additive left in a sample of oil. The TBN is useful for people who want to extend their oil usage far beyond the normal range.

By comparing the TBN of a used oil to the TBN of the same oil in virgin condition, the user can determine how much reserve additive the oil has left to neutralize acids. The lower the TBN reading, the less active additive the oil has left.
(Note: You do not need to send in a virgin sample for us to run a TBN on your oil. Some people like to send a virgin sample anyway, to find out exactly where the TBN of a specific oil starts out. The cost of a virgin oil sample plus TBN is the same as a regular oil sample plus TBN.)

An oil's function is to lubricate, clean, and cool the engine. Additives are added to the oil to enhance those functions. If the oil becomes too acidic, it will corrode the engine. A good TBN result, meaning plenty of active additive is left in the oil, is usually in the 6.0 to 14.0 range (depending on whether the oil is for gas or diesel engines). A low test result, meaning very little additive is left, is down around 1.

Scientifically speaking, the TBN is one of two "neutralization number" tests run on oils. The TAN (total acid number), which is used for hydraulic oils, is the other. The TBN measures the total basedity of an engine oil; that is, how much base (as in, a base vs. an acid) additive is in the oil to offset the deleterious effects of acids coming into the oil from combustion and other sources. "

[941MXVET]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

[COLOR=Red]Ask them why not, it is an important value..............

I did, they told me that they didn't test for TBN in gasoline engine samples. Since I'm not concerned with finding my maximum change interval, how important is TBN?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by 941MXVET

I did, they told me that they didn't test for TBN in gasoline engine samples. Since I'm not concerned with finding my maximum change interval, how important is TBN?

Very, as it is telling you how the oil is holding up as well as when to consider changing it, a very important issue for the M96........

We run a fair number of UOA’s, both to track how customer cars are doing as well as keeping an eye on how the oil is holding up. We wouldn’t run a UOA without a TBN……………

[941MXVET]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Very, as it is telling you how the oil is holding up as well as when to consider changing it, a very important issue for the M96........

We run a fair number of UOA’s, both to track how customer cars are doing as well as keeping an eye on how the oil is holding up. We wouldn’t run a UOA without a TBN……………

Well I guess I sorry I won't be able to supply that information. I'll contact the lab again and see what it would take to have that done.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by 941MXVET

Well I guess I sorry I won't be able to supply that information. I'll contact the lab again and see what it would take to have that done.

Most labs will tack it on for a few bucks................

[JTP]

Who is a good oil analysis lab to deal with? Can someone who does a lot of UOAs make a recommendation?

[941MXVET]

Originally Posted by JTP

Who is a good oil analysis lab to deal with? Can someone who does a lot of UOAs make a recommendation?

I use:

http://www.cashmanequipment.com/Fluids-Analysis-Program.htm

They keep my company's multimillion dollar gold mining trucks & equiptment running fine.

Also this lab may be the most popular:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas-engine.php

[JTP]

thanks, I'll try them out and ask for a sampling kit.

[Blue-S]

Originally Posted by 941MXVET

Car: 986
Miles: 44,xxx
Oil: Royal Purple 5w-40

Elements:

Anti_F N
Fuel <.5
Water Neg
V100 13.3
OXI 15
NIT 6
Sulf 21
Cu 0
Fe 1
Cr 0
Pb 0
Al 3
Si 2
Mo 172
Na 5
Mg 15
Sn 0
Zn 764
Ni 0
K 3
Ca 1696
P 644

I'm no oil genius, but it sure doesn't look like there is an abundance of Zinc (Zn) and Phosphorus (P) in that oil. According to this chart https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf , even the much-maligned Mobil 1 0w40 has more Zn & P than the 5w40 Royal Purple. On the plus side, if your car burns oil the catalysts won't be quickly poisoned.