What Oil to use?M1, Castro synt? or other

[Jake Raby]

The engine's oil DOES NOT lube the IMS bearing in factory form. The factory IMS bearing is a permanently lubricated SEALED unit... Thats why it fails. engine oil selections have little impact on the IMS bearing.

[mptoledo]

sorry, I did it again. It was the AOS they were talking about. Thanks for heads up on my mistake, I will edit it.

[mptoledo]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The engine's oil DOES NOT lube the IMS bearing in factory form. The factory IMS bearing is a permanently lubricated SEALED unit... Thats why it fails. engine oil selections have little impact on the IMS bearing.

Hey, wait a minute, you are the guy I have been googleing for the past two days.

Sorry I am real slow today(slower than usual). Please put this to rest, as you have more knowledge in your little toe Than I will ever have on this oil issue. What do you (or can you legally) recommend me to use in my 2001 boxster "s"? Please include weight also(I live in ohio but don't drive too much in winter). I plan to change every 7000miles or once a year. MY car has 60k miles on it, I don't abuse it, but I do like to hear it sing through the gears quite often.

Ps do you still think ZDDPlus is a good additive for me?

[Jake Raby]

Sorry, but I NEVER divulge oil information and making a recommendation that defies Porsche's "Bible" is a good way to end up being responsible for someone's failed engine.. In a perfect world I could share information without any negative fallout.. Not happening in the 21st Century..

No one can squeeze the info from me, not on the phone, here or face to face.. Read the oil article on the LN Engineering site and make your selection based on that as Charles and I worked together on it.

Oil selections are hot topics with lots of critics and experts that don't know a piston from a cylinder head, but they will argue their point based on BS in advertisements and what they have "read"... Not me, direct experience is ALL that matters.

[mptoledo]

thanks for the reply, after reading many of your posts and blogs I kind of figured that would be the answer. I guess it would be pointless to ask what you put in your car last oil change(I know, I know ). I have read http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html twice. I will read it again to see if I missed anything as it is quite technical and I haven't found the cliff notes version yet

Can you at least tell me if putting either of these types is "not" recommended by Porsche? 10W40 (highmilage) or 5W40 (turbo diesel truck). these are the only two W40 that my local small town stores have. If not I will not ask again.

Again thanks for all your hard work on the subject. I just wish we didn't live in such a ligitious society!!

[Frodo]

Quote: "Not happening in the 21st Century.. "

Posted by Jake Raby.

Jake, Jake, Jake. Not in the 21st Century?? Well...I think I speak for most of us here when I say motor oil information divulged in 2100 won't do most of us any good at all!

As a former lawyer (I got tired of dealing with other lawyers, many of which are absolute pains in the butt to deal with, so I got out of the business...though I have to admit: they are an interesting crowd to have a beer with), I KNOW that, when it comes to defamation, libel, etc, TRUTH is an absolute defense.

Why don't you just make available RESULTS from tests of the various motor oils you've tested?? You don't have to make any recommendations per se. With black and white test results, reported in an unbiased manner, we can reach our own conclusions as to which motor oil to choose.

You can even have your own lawyers (I'm sure you have a team of them on retainer at all times for dealing with just such issues, Right?) draft up some sort of disclaimer to toss into the mix, to create yet another barrier to liability.

Whaddaya say, Jake? We're thirsty for reliable info! Toss us a bone here Jake!

[timothy]

Originally Posted by Frodo

information divulged in 2100 won't do most of us any good at all!

Actually the 21st century started Jan 1, 2001.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_century

[mptoledo]

Originally Posted by timothy

Actually the 21st century started Jan 1, 2001.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_century

actually 2100= 22nd century. frodo was correct in stating that info in the 2100/22nd century won't help us. Jake stated he wouldn't tell us in the 21st century meaning he will tell us in the 22nd century(which I doubt).

So +1 for Frodo

I hope this is all clear now, and we can get back to what frickin oil to use.

[timothy]

Originally Posted by mptoledo

actually 2100= 22nd century

Nice try but unfortunately incorrect. Much like the 21st century stared Jan 1, 2001, the 22nd century begins on Jan 1, 2101. The entire year 2100 is still in the 21st century.

[Frodo]

Quote: "Nice try but unfortunately incorrect. Much like the 21st century stared Jan 1, 2001, the 22nd century begins on Jan 1, 2101. The entire year 2100 is still in the 21st century."

Posted by timothy.

Hey, thanks for pointing that out fella. Whether it's 2100 or 2101, we'll all be dead in any case, which was basically my point. Next time I'm in the market for some entirely useless trivia, I'll give you a call...

[Brucelee]

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Hatco uses many different acids and alcohols for manufacturing polyol esters and an even greater number of permutations are possible due to the multiple ester linkages. The difference in ester properties as they relate to the alcohols are primarily those related to molecular weight such as viscosity, pour point, flash point, and volatility. The versatility in designing these fluids is mainly related to the selection and mix of the acids esterified onto the alcohols.



The major application for polyol esters is jet engine lubricants where they have been used exclusively for more than 30 years. In this application, the oil is expected to flow at -54 C, pump readily at -40 C, and withstand sump temperature approaching 200 C with drain intervals measured in years. Only polyol esters have been found to satisfy this demanding application.


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You can email us at hatcoinfo@chemtura.com, or submit your requirements using our Ester Design Sheet. Either way you can count on prompt and confidential service.

[Brucelee]

From the Car Bible

http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html


The current trend is the "90% of your engine wear happens at startup" advertising ploy. This fact is absolutely true, but as it happens, it's less to to with "grinding engine parts" and more to do with combustion. When the combustion gases burn, they form acids which are highly corrosive when their vapours condense. These acids collect in the upper cylinder areas where their temperature is raised above their dew point. The acids condense and etch the cylinder walls and piston rings. I


n reality, this accounts for over 85% of engine wear, the other 15% being down to abrasion. So the adverts are nearly right - most of the engine wear does happen at startup, and it is because of a lack of oil, but it isn't because the oil isn't coating moving parts - it's because it's not transporting these acidic gases away. Having said that, if you start the engine and let it idle for 15 seconds or so before moving off, you can probably add another 100,000 miles to your engine's life without one bottle of additive. This warms the oil up a tad and makes sure it's in all the most vital areas before you start putting a strain on the engine.


Most handbooks tell you not to let the engine warm up before driving off (they're referring to the acid corrosion mentioned above), but they mean don't let it reach working temperature. If, however, you insist on starting up and belting off down the road, think of this next time: it takes an average engine around 3 minutes of average driving for the exhaust manifold to reach 300°C. If you blast off and run around at full throttle, right from the word go, that process takes a little under a minute. Think about it - from outside air temperature to 300°C in a minute - what exactly is that doing to the metal in your manifold? Ask anyone who's ever owned an original Audi Quattro - they'll tell you exactly what happens.


I'm not saying that these companies are having us all on, heaven knows there are plenty of statements from companies and private individuals who have reportedly reaped the benefits of these products. But in my experience, it's simply not worth the huge risk of putting the additive in there

[mptoledo]

Ignore this post

[mptoledo]

Ok, after much extensive research and discussions behind the scenes here and other boards, this is what I found out and what I am going to use. This is based on the collective recommendation of many experts, not just pointless ramblings from novices like me.

What I am using:
1.) Castrol syntec 10W40 (On sale at Napa!! 10 quarts for under $60.)
2.) Napa gold(wix) # 7211 ($16.99) Overwhelmingly the choice of experts!!
3.) K&N air filter Part #: K33332773 ($31.38)
4.) New Oil Plug & crush ring #: W0133-1646532 ($5)

A lot of people swear by royal purple ($8.99/quart). It was too pricey for me. My two choices came down to Castro, and Mobil 1 High mileage

What I have learned:
1.) Oil Companies have limited the amount of vital additives in their oil, because of the epa.
2.) It all comes down to the film between metal parts rubbing against each other, what protects them and how long it holds up.
3.) Almost all experts laugh at Porsche's recommended Oil change intervals. 7500 miles max or at least once a year, less if you track or are hard.
4.) Stay away from 30 weight oils. 40 weight seems to be the ideal choice amoung the experts.
5.) Let your car run 15 to 20 seconds before you go, but don't let it warm up to operating temps. Experts say this will dramtically reduce engine wear. 90% of engine wear happens when you start the car. Some state it will add 100k miles to your engines life. And for gods sakes let your car warm up while driving before getting on it.

I hope this helps some out there that are like me and want to make sure you are using quality stuff.

Napa has Castro Syntec 10W40 on sales for about $5.5 a quart.

[JFP in PA]

You may want to check out WalMart, a few days ago I noticed 5 quart containers of the 10W-40 Castrol Syntec priced at $21.........................

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

From the Car Bible

...So the adverts are nearly right - most of the engine wear does happen at startup, and it is because of a lack of oil, but it isn't because the oil isn't coating moving parts - it's [/B] because it's not transporting these acidic gases away...

Welllllll .... ??

In reality, your crankshaft and camshafts actually never touch the bearings (which are properly called fluid film bearings), instead they float on a thin film of oil - as thin as 0.0001". This is made possible by the flow and pressure supplied to the oil by the oil pump as well as a very thin film of lubricant at a sufficiently-high pressure to match the applied load because of the relative motion between the crankshaft and the bearing. Without this pressure, the oil cannot withstand the weight of the crank alone.

But all this requires the engine to be running so the oil pump can pressurize the oil, and so the crankshaft rotations create the necessary hydrodynamic pressure. When you stop your engine, the oil pump and crank stop too and your oil pressure and hydrodynamic pressure goes away and the crank settles back in the bearing, which is OK because nothing's moving and so no wear takes place.

But, when you restart the engine, you now start turning the crank which is resting directly on the bearing (minus any residual oil film clinging to the parts) and continues to do so until the oil pump and the crank are operated at sufficient rpms to repressurize the oil and once again float the crank. 85% of engine wear occurs at startup, because you get parts moving against one another until the pressure rises enough for them to float.

This is why pre-lubers (or sometimes called pre-oilers) are popular. They are in essence externally operated pumps (usually electric, driven off the battery) which run for a few seconds to pressurize the oil, supply the bearings, and float the crank before the starter is engaged so there is no crank-to-bearing contact resulting in excess wear.

The acid theory is nice, and acids are produced as combustion by-products. But what does running the engine do? Where does this acid go? Through the pickup tube to the oil pump then out to the galleries, the top of the head only to recirculate back down to the sump? The oil still maintains it's acidity and is still in contact with the metal parts whether they're moving or still. Only exhaust gasses from the combustion chamber flow out the exhaust, except for whatever vapors the PVC valve passes from the sump to the intake or combustion chamber and out the exhaust. But, when the oil is cool, it's not releasing much vapor.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Welllllll .... ??

In reality, your crankshaft and camshafts actually never touch the bearings (which are properly called fluid film bearings), instead they float on a thin film of oil - as thin as 0.0001". This is made possible by the flow and pressure supplied to the oil by the oil pump as well as a very thin film of lubricant at a sufficiently-high pressure to match the applied load because of the relative motion between the crankshaft and the bearing. Without this pressure, the oil cannot withstand the weight of the crank alone.

But all this requires the engine to be running so the oil pump can pressurize the oil, and so the crankshaft rotations create the necessary hydrodynamic pressure. When you stop your engine, the oil pump and crank stop too and your oil pressure and hydrodynamic pressure goes away and the crank settles back in the bearing, which is OK because nothing's moving and so no wear takes place.

But, when you restart the engine, you now start turning the crank which is resting directly on the bearing (minus any residual oil film clinging to the parts) and continues to do so until the oil pump and the crank are operated at sufficient rpms to repressurize the oil and once again float the crank. 85% of engine wear occurs at startup, because you get parts moving against one another until the pressure rises enough for them to float.

This is why pre-lubers (or sometimes called pre-oilers) are popular. They are in essence externally operated pumps (usually electric, driven off the battery) which run for a few seconds to pressurize the oil, supply the bearings, and float the crank before the starter is engaged so there is no crank-to-bearing contact resulting in excess wear.

The acid theory is nice, and acids are produced as combustion by-products. But what does running the engine do? Where does this acid go? Through the pickup tube to the oil pump then out to the galleries, the top of the head only to recirculate back down to the sump? The oil still maintains it's acidity and is still in contact with the metal parts whether they're moving or still. Only exhaust gasses from the combustion chamber flow out the exhaust, except for whatever vapors the PVC valve passes from the sump to the intake or combustion chamber and out the exhaust. But, when the oil is cool, it's not releasing much vapor.

So, are you suggesting that one SHOULD NOT wait a few seconds before taking off? Seems prudent to me.

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

So, are you suggesting that one SHOULD NOT wait a few seconds before taking off? Seems prudent to me.

NO... I'm not suggesting that at all. In fact the opposite. It takes about 10-20 sec. minimum (temp dependent, etc.) of running to fully charge the oil galleries, pressurize the system and float the moving parts.

What I am saying is that eliminating engine wear on startup is a fallacy, marketing hype by using one oil over another. The only way to significantly reduce startup wear is through a pre-luber.

Sure, the better an oil clings to metal parts while not running, the less friction it'll experience on startup, but it will not be eliminated and over the life of the engine, you'll still see 80+% of the wear accumulate from startups.

That's one of the reasons why cars with 'Highway' miles are so desireable. They experience many more miles between starts and over the life of the car can literally have thousands of fewer startups than the little old lady driving 3 mi. once a week to church and back.

[Brucelee]

Got it.

Thanks for clarifying.