2003 OEM glass convertible top installed on an 01 Boxster
 

For those wondering if a 2003 factory glass soft top and frame will work in a pre-2003 Boxster, it does. Today, my friend Maurice and I removed my old plastic windowed top from my 2001 Boxster, and bolted in a complete 2003 factory glass top and frame sourced from a wrecked Boxster. It is a direct plug and play bolt in. For pre-2000 cars, the top relay and top transmission microswitches that tell the top how to cycle are different, so there's a bit of extra work in order to make that work. For 2000, 2001, and 2002 model year cars, it is plug and play bolt right in and operate.

The advantage of swapping in an OEM vs. GAHH or other aftermarket version top is that the OEM version accomodates a larger glass window without sacrificing engine access from the top because of the 4th bow in the frame. The GAHH aftermarket tops have to stretch over the pre-2003 3-bow frames, and thus, the glass area has to be smaller, and there's extra pressure put on the glass as it folds.

Before...my 01 with the plastic window:
http://i42.tinypic.com/10z65b7.jpg

Getting ready to unbolt the old top and frame:
http://i44.tinypic.com/f2sn08.jpg

Marking the v-levers/push rod prior to disassembly so that we know exactly where to reconnect when putting in the new top:
http://i39.tinypic.com/alsnzm.jpg

Old top completely out:
http://i43.tinypic.com/351xzjp.jpg

New top in, and looking great:
http://i41.tinypic.com/ejx24w.jpg

Interior shot with full headliner and glass window:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2j3jsjk.jpg

Couple more:
http://i39.tinypic.com/iokrki.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/e98dig.jpg

And a video of the working 03 top on an 01 Boxster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGCKcRrmR_c

Hope you enjoy the pics and video!

What's the difference in weight between the old and new tops?

What did the newer top and mechanism cost you?

We didn't weigh the two tops prior to doing the swap, but I can tell you they both don't feel very heavy. Easy to pick up by yourself with no assistance because of the lightweight magnesium frame. I paid $700 for the complete top and frame.

Cool, cheaper than a GAHH and full engine access.

Nice job!

Were you tempted to paint the rollbar since you had all that access?

wow...$700 only :D awesome! :cheers:

haha...well, it was like 90F degrees out at the time or something like that and I was hot, so no...didn't even think about the rollbar. lol. But yeah, that would be a great project. :)

Congratulations. This is a modification I would like to make to my car.

Where did you find your top?

Do you have any suggestions for searching?

I think I have a couple of years of life in my top, so I can afford to be patient.

Thanks. I got my top from someone locally who wrecked their car, but the top was undamaged, and wanted to part their car.
My friend who helped me put the top on also just sourced an 03 complete top and frame from a dismantler for a similar price to what I paid. I would check salvage yards every so often because unfortunately people do wreck their boxsters. Finding an 03 or 04 is just a matter of being persistent in your search, and checking with these salvage yards every month or so. Good luck!

I got two words for that:

NICE!!

My plastic window is nearly perfect the canvas is good as new but I now have a nickel size cut in the plastic. grrr....Time to start calling the salvage yards.
How many hours did this swap take? I have a friend who is pretty handy to make up for my incompetence. Although I did just complete the mother of all kitchen cabinet refinishing projects. I need an Advil.

Thanks. Well, being that this was the first time we tried this, we took our time, and it took us from start to finish about 3 hours, but that was because first, we noticed that a clamping rail on the b-pillar of the top had snapped, so we had to replace that first. Getting the old top off was pretty easy. There are only 3 bolts on each side of the frame that hold the top on the car, but you have to remove a couple of trim pieces near the b-pillar that protrude over the base of the frame where the bolts are. That takes about 10 minutes each side, but is pretty easy. Then after putting the new top in, you have to make minor adjustments to the positioning so that everything closes and opens properly without being off. What I mean by that is that there is some play in the positioning of the frame where the 3 bolts are on each side where you can actually move the frame forward/backwards up or down before tightening the bolts, and also the positioning of the pushrods that connect to the top from the transmissions. If you tighten the 3 bolts when the frame is too forward, the top latch hook will touch the windstop between the roll bars when you cycle the top. If the pushrod length is not just right, the ball caps will pop off when you operate the top. However, it's all very straightforward, and we could probably do the job now in under 2 hours.

If you end up sourcing an 03 or 04 top, feel free to PM me, and I can give you some pointers on the install (my friend who helped me put the top on actually is the one with the expertise, so I can put you in touch with him for some helpful tips). It really is a plug and play bolt in, provides a pretty large window, and doesn't limit access to your engine from the top (there's a built in strap on the top that helps hold the back of the glass window up and away from the engine cover when you need access), so I think it's a no brainer over the GAHH top if you can find one. The one thing I hated about my old plastic windowed top was that I never quite knew when it was too cold out to put down the top in fear of the plastic window cracking (which it did one day). This solves it.

Nuther pic to show you how nice and big the window is...oh, and there's PORSCHE engraved in black letters at the bottom center of the heated window. :)
http://i41.tinypic.com/idw0om.jpg

quote: "oh, and there's PORSCHE engraved in black letters at the bottom center of the heated window."

That settles it!

I have to do yet another "hack" to my '01. Time to start calling the salvage yards......

Hehe..it's pretty cool actually, because you can see it when you look out the rear view mirror when you're driving. LOL

Boxtaboy.......................I hate you.

Time to source a new top and frame

LOL. Ok, here's another pic of the top for you to enjoy then. :D

http://i43.tinypic.com/ab5mjt.jpg

is it possible to get a glass window and just have it sewn/retrofitted into the top of a 2000-2002 top? i would think not because my plastic window actually folds in half when the top goes down.... does the frame mechanism of the 03-04 top actually open/close differently such that the top just lays flat rather than get folded???

i would assume you can't just retrofit a glass window into where the plastic one is on a pre-03 top...

my rear window is still pretty good, but there is one small spot near the edge where I can see it discolored and starting to crack... it sucks b/c 99% of my window looks flawless/clear and this one darn spot is cracked. "Out damn spot!"

my top is relatively new - it was replaced by the dealer a few years ago under an extended warranty - too bad htey dind' tput in an 03-04 top and save me the timehassle... now I want to do this..

i can't tell you what a PITA it is to have to fold the window every time i want to drop the top. being able to just drop the top and no "chop" needed would be NICE

You can't have a glass window sewn into your current top because the glass has to be small enough to fold. This is because of your 3-bow frame used for the plastic window. If you cut out the plastic window, your glass window would need to be bigger than the plastic window that used to be there. The 03 and 04 tops have a 4th bow in the frame which allows for a larger window that nicely folds flat (without having to fold in half), and thus fits perfectly under the clamshell.

The aftermarket makers like GAHH, Robbins, and others make a top that incorporates a smaller glass window that folds, but because it is stretched over the older 3-bow frames, there is a lot of pressure put on the window itself because the folding point is not optimal. The 3-bow frame was made to accomodate a plastic window that folds in half, as you know. GAHH has improved upon their design to at least prevent the glass from separating from the seams, but their window is still smaller in size than the OEM top's window, and to me, looks like a mail slot. The other issue is that because the 3-bow frame really is meant to accomodate a plastic window that folds in half, with the aftermarket glass window top installed, you have less access to the engine from the top because the glass window doesn't fold in half when held up to get to the engine. The OEM top folds up and out of the way because of the 4th bow in the frame that will allow the window to pivet up.

I totally agree with you about the hassle of having to get out of the car to do the chop. Not only does it look kinda retarded when others are looking at you, it is a pain to have to get out of the car. With a glass top, you no longer need to do that. Oh, and your dealer probably replaced the fabric part of your top, not the frame, and that's why they could not put the 03/04 glass soft top fabric on your car...it wouldn't fit over your 3-bow frame. In order for them to give you an 03/04 glass top conversion, they would have had to replace your frame too, which adds another several thousand dollars to the equation...which is why the best/cheapest way to get this done is to source the 03/04 top and frame from a wreck.

What bothers me is that Porsche waited 6 years (model years 97-03) before they finally offered the Boxster with a glass top. That is kinda pathetic...even cars like the mini, beetle, mustang, MR2, and Chrysler Sebring came standard with a glass window, but not on a Porsche. They should at least now offer an option to retrofit the 03 or 04 top on previous models, because it obviously works, but no- they would charge you about $8k for the new top with frame if you order it, so the only cost effective way to do it is to source thru a salvage yard.

Thanks for sharing.
Great top, wheels, exhaust - car!

Great job. Great price. I'm jealous.........

Great Job!
I had heard the tops where interchangeable, but you are the first person I have heard of who has actually done this. When my plastic window breaks I will definately be doing this.
Do you know if it will work on a '99?
And what relays do you need to replace, do you have the part numbers?
Thanks!

thanks for the detailed explanation.

when my plastic window eventually becomes in need of replacement, this is a serious option. thanks for sharing with us!! now we know we can do it.

Thanks all, for the nice comments. It was really a fun project, and I can't believe it was just a plug and play bolt in. I'm sure once the word gets out, it'll start getting tough to find these tops.....but it is totally worth the effort in looking for one as you can see. I can't tell you how nice it is to finally not have to do the chop, polish the plastic window with Plexus every other week, or worry if the top will crack if it's too cold out.

As for making the 03/04 tops work with the pre-2000 model years, I think my friend Maurice will be the first one who will complete the job. Others have tried the conversion to a pre-2000, but I don't think anyone has successfully done it yet. The top does bolt in fine, but the problem is that the top relay and top transmissions/microswitches are different in the earlier models, and that makes it difficult for the top to know how to cycle correctly.

My pal is waiting for all his parts to come in to do the conversion, as his is a pre-2000 model year Boxster. I am confident he will be able to do it, and will ask him to post his results here when he's finished. He tells me it definitely is possible though, but I'm not sure what exactly is involved, so I'll let him post his results when he's figured it out.

Btw, just to clarify, in late 1999, Porsche made the changes to the top relay and top transmissions/microswitches, so it is possible (if your 99 is a late 99 model) that you can just drop in a 2003/2004 top without any modifications. Take a look at this picture....this is a picture of the top motor which is right near the third brake light in the trunk. Just open your top part way, and you'll be able to see this top motor unit. If you have that lever coming out of the top motor, then you will have to modify your relay and transmission microswitches, but if you don't have that lever sticking out, you have the updated parts, and you will not need to make any changes...just pop in the new top and you're good to go!

http://mike.focke.googlepages.com/1.JPG/1-large.JPG

Well, I have the old parts. I am interested to see what parts need to be replaced. I found this on RennTech, but it sounds fairly complicated.
I am hoping it ends up being as simple as replacing the motor with the new one, and putting in the new style relay. :cheers:

Haha...that's funny... the poster Maurice on that board is my pal who helped me install my 03 top. Guess Atta has figured it out, and has made it work for his 99 in conjunction with his Smart Top unit. Good for him. So it is possible, but looks a little involved, requiring some replacement parts and wire cutting/splicing. Probably not too difficult though, if you have some spare time to take it slow.

Maurice will be doing this mod, as he also has sourced the 03 top for his pre-2000, so stay tuned, and I'm sure he'll post any helpful hints.

I have an 01 S and I just ripped my top doing the chop! Anyways im looking for a glass top. Do I need to get the complete top or can I take the skin off and replace it with an 03 Skin with glass?

You need the whole thing. The '01 has three ribs and the '03 has four. I am on the hunt. I will have this mod! :)

You can actually get an aftermarket glass windowed soft top made by GAHH, which is made to fit over your older version 3 bow frame. It is not as good as finding a factory 03 or 04 complete top and frame like what I did, but it will work if it is the glass that you just must have.

The reason why the GAHH aftermarket top now advertises a lifetime warranty against the glass separating from the seams is because their initial version of the glass window used to come undone from the canvas when you folded down the top. This is because the older version tops with the plastic window sewn in them were really not made to accomodate a glass window that does not fold in half as the plastic window does when you put your top down. GAHH and other companies had to therefore make a smaller glass window fit in that canvas top to allow it to fold under when the top is in the down position. Since the pressure put on the glass was so high when the top is put down, the glass separated from the canvas seam.

They now have figured out a way to tightly position the glass in the canvas (I think by designing a window pocket) so that it no longer comes undone, but that doesn't mean that there still isn't a lot of pressure being put on it as it folds because there still isn't a 4th bow in the frame (like in the factory 03/04 top frame) that allows for a pressure-less clean fold of the glass window. When I hand folded my factory 03 top and frame prior to installing it, I noticed that there was no pressure put on the window area at all because the 4th bow in the frame permits a pivot point for a clean fold. So with the factory top, you get a bigger window than the GAHH for better vision out the back, more access to the engine from the top (since the glass window completely folds up and out of the way when tilted up- there's also a built in strap in the top canvas that holds the back of the window up for full engine access), and no risk of the glass window separating. It's truly the best option if you can source an 03 or 04 top for your 01 model yr. car.

^ did anyone inquire as to what the cost of a new OEM top frame and OEM soft top would be? if installing the entire assembly is a straight forward install seems like you'd save the $500-$700 on installing an aftermarket.
but I guess Porsche will only sell the frame and soft top separately. Too bad.

Hope you're sitting down before I tell you this,...you can get a brand new 4-bow factory 03 top and frame from Porsche, BUT they will charge you a grand total of... $7,995.00 for it! They say the top frame is made of magnesium, but the pricing reflects gold. LOL. So getting it from a dismantler is really the way to go.

Boxtaboy, a PM awaits your kind attention

GAHH lists the '97-'02 glass upgrade top as having a window that is 35.5" x 12". Can someone measure the '03-'04 glass window? I am curious to see how much larger it actually is, may determine wether it's worth doing. :cheers:

Ok, replied.

I can measure for you next time I go to my garage, but I don't think the main appeal of the 03-04 window is the size of the window. I think the main appeal is that it doesn't limit engine access, with the larger glass area and OEM fit/look as secondary. As for whether or not worth doing, I think that's a function of what price you can source it for...if found at similar to price of GAHH or a few hundred higher, I think it's a no brainer. If much higher, then maybe not.

Another thing is that it is actually a lot easier to just swap the entire top frame than stripping off your old top from the frame and installing a GAHH over the old frame. That would usually take at least twice the time to do vs. just swapping out a top frame. The exception would be if you had a pre-2000 model, in which case you'd also have to modify your top relay/transmission set up.

Rick:

Not that simple, but not that complicated, either.

You won't have to replace the electric motor, it's the same part number. You will have to re-route the wires to/from the two microswitches on the earlier Boxsters (B-Pillar and small metal lever on top of motor). Then provide for a connection for those two sets of wires to the new connector needed for the driver's side transmission. Then replace the relay. From Atle's most recent post, it appears as though another wire had to be cut to eliminate the "top open" light when the top is in closed position.

Like Boxtaboy said, when I do mine I should have more definitive answers. I'm just waiting for that little connector before I proceed. Another couple of weeks should do it.

Regards, Maurice.

Rick:

BTW, if you wanted to stick with your old style transmissions (which is not what I have chosen to do), I don't see why you wouldn't be able to swap in the new '03-'04 glass top and frame in place of your '99 top and frame and have it work the same way that the old top worked.

I don't believe that the change from 3 bow to 4 bow frame would have any negative effect on the timing providied by the after-running time built into the "old" system.

It's worth a try if your old "Version A" transmissions and the rest of your system are working 100%. It's easy enough to put the old top and frame back on if it doesn't work for you, at least until you get the rest of the new parts.

Regards, Maurice.

Could you elaborate on this? So why bother changing the transmission if it may work without changing anything?
Also, what sort of cost are you looking at in addition to the top, to retrofit the '03-'04 top to a pre'-00 the way you are going to do it?
Thanks!

Rick:

The "Version B" transmissions are MUCH more reliable than the earlier version. There is no "half-moon gear" in the newer style transmissions, so you never experience the V-Levers rotating the gear past the 50th tooth and then having the "hydraulic" pushrod snapping back. Sometimes over and over again. Sometimes ending up in a dead zone. The newer cable sheaths also are not prone to stretching as the old ones were, thereby more likely avoiding the "retraction" of the inner speedometer-type cable and the possible damage that can cause if you are not paying attention (including tweaking the clamshell).

Also, the timing system in the newer style transmissions is better designed to prevent the malfunction that occurs fairly frequently with respect to the "top open" idiot light not going off when the roof is completely closed or completely open. There is no "after-running" time built into the newer system.

You can get a used set of transmissions, with cables, and then buy a new style relay, along with sourcing an electrical connector to plug into the front side of the driver's side transmission. That whole set up should come in around $400 total.

If your old version set up is working perfectly, I don't see any immediate downside to just installing the '03-04 top and frame. If it doesn't work or if the old system fails after a while (could be years), you could then go ahead and do the rest of the conversion. It would also give you time to find a good deal on the newer parts.

Regards, Maurice.

When did the Version B start?

Great job!

I put one on my 99. Easy job - no adjustments, other than the play in the bolts. Had to lift the frame a little while tightening it.

I did have to change out the transmissions, control relay and re-wire though, since this is a 99, and that WAS a hassle. Very much worth it, though. Since I had to get a new relay I got a SmartTOP relay and the comfort of just hitting a button while driving in/out of my driveway, no more holding the button or having to chop the top, is fantastic! :dance:

I paid $2000 for the top w/frame, and the top actually has more wear marks than my 99 top though. :mad: Seems like you got a really good deal.

Atle