6 point harness - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

ChrisZang · 03-17-2009, 10:08 PM

Is there anywhere a DYI for installing the mounting points for the sub-belts for a 6 point harness. (I already have the Brey-Krause adapters for the sides, so they're already taken care of)

jmatta · 03-18-2009, 06:25 AM

The two point sub belt in a six point harness attaches to the same points as your lap belts. You attach, sit on it and draw it up from your crotch to the lock point (hope I don't need to draw a picture!).

In essence, if you have the adapters for the lap belts, you're set.

http://boxsters.addr.com/hacks/harness.htm

SilentThunder · 03-18-2009, 08:40 AM

That doesn't seem safe. Porsche makes an anti sub mounting bar that costs 70 bucks. It works with the GT3 seats, not sure on other seats. If not you need to drill holes under the seat.

Also: whatever that webpage says shouldnt be taken seriously, he mounted harnesses on a stock seat. If he wrecked they would slip off his shoulders and make for more injuries.

jmatta · 03-18-2009, 09:24 AM

That's true, harnesses should not be used with a stock seat, but I believe Chris has plans to purchase a race seat. The website was simply a reference for mounting points. Many sanctioning bodies prefer a six point harness to protect the pelvis in a severe impact, over a five point.

A couple years back, I attended a safety tech session held at Northstar Motorsports with Dr. John Melvin (reknown safety expert), where he demonstrated the affects of different harness sytems. A six point does a far better job holding the pelvis in place than a five point, due to inherit give in the seat and belt mounting point. Because a five point will always have some flex or angle associated with it's mounting, it may allow the lap belt to move slightly and crush the pelvis.

Now realistically, we're talking DE here, not ALMS or other high speed event. But incidents do occur and people get injured from improperly installed safety devices.

BTW, NASCAR (not that I'm a fan) has mandated a six point belt system since the Ernhardt crash.

ChrisZang · 03-18-2009, 08:27 PM

Hi jmatta,

thanks for the tip & link that was EXACTLY what I was looking for, so no drilling holes

About the needed sub-bar: I am totally with you: This is not racing or competitive driving. It is DE/TT. I need a seat / harness combination which holds me better in my seat. For example: There is this fast right hander after the "fish hook" in Buttonwillow where I need to upshift to 3rd in mid-turn but the g-forces squeeze me against the door, so it's a real challenge to change gears.
As the choice is either 3-point or 6-point with all the clubs I drive, I need to get a 6-point even though IMHO a 4-point would do as well. Before anyone cries out here:
If a 3-point is an accepted safety device then a 4-point should safe as well, but by-laws are by-laws and I need to follow them.
And yes I'll need a seat with the holes for the shoulder and anti-sub harness, see here: aftermarket race seat

Thanks for all the tips & advise

jmatta · 03-19-2009, 06:07 AM

Chris,

Keep in mind when looking at seats, you do not need a sub belt hole if you choose to run a six point harness. The sub belts connect at the lap belt points, come thru the side of the seat and you sit on them, drawing the lock point to the safety latch.

Please do not consider a four point...there is nothing to keep your body from diving under the belts in a contact situation. A stock three point just doesn't hold you, as you've already mentioned. I haven't seen one individual who can hold on and steer at the same time (remember, light steering inputs are very important).

PCA Driving Instructor last 10 Years

renzop · 03-19-2009, 06:18 AM

While DEs are safer than real road racing, having a sub-par restraint setup is incredibly foolish. The occasional 2 car collision happens. The 100mph wall hit happens in DEs too. The primary reason to have belts in the car is to protect you when that accident happens. Your future widow will not appreciate the cost savings that you made by not installing a proper belt system (or maybe she will because it will now be her money!)

jmatta · 03-19-2009, 02:43 PM

Exactly why I do not recommend running with either a three or four point system.

Sboxin · 03-19-2009, 04:01 PM

Racing harnesses do not belong on stock Porsche seats.
Racing harnesses on race seats are good - IF -- and only if you also use a HANS type neck restraint - Ask Dale's widow and son.

If you take a car to the track that has standard 3 point belts and air bags this may/will/should protect you in a crash -- Yes, the race seat and harness and HANS may/will/should protect you better - but this will depend on the exact type of crash you have.

The track organizers are trying to help us be more safe on the track -- but lets face it -- the track is a very dangerous place. I know personally 3 drivers who have gone into the wall at 100MPH in DE/TT cars with full seats and harnesses and HANS -- they broke a rib and are very very sore afterward but no lasting results (hopefully)
or broken necks. My son now has a 911 track prepared car with cage, fire system, electrical shut off, Halo seat, 6 point harness, and fire suit, gloves and shoes --- all just for Time Trial. How safe can you be on the track---probability tells us the more you are exposed the higher the risk --- just like Craps, eh?

Flame suit on --- fire away

Take care,

Ed

PS: I have a MOMO seat and BK Rollbar available if you are interested...

ChrisZang · 03-20-2009, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sboxin

Racing harnesses do not belong on stock Porsche seats.
Racing harnesses on race seats are good - IF -- and only if you also use a HANS type neck restraint - Ask Dale's widow and son.

Flame suit on --- fire away

Take care,

Ed

PS: I have a MOMO seat and BK Rollbar available if you are interested...

No flame suit needed - I hear you.
Hey about the Momo seat(s) are these the ones where you posted pics in my other thread? aftermarket race seat

Defenitely interested, please send either send me a PM or an e-mail to
christopher AT christopherzang DOT com

mdex · 03-20-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sboxin

Racing harnesses do not belong on stock Porsche seats.
Racing harnesses on race seats are good - IF -- and only if you also use a HANS type neck restraint - Ask Dale's widow and son.

If you take a car to the track that has standard 3 point belts and air bags this may/will/should protect you in a crash -- Yes, the race seat and harness and HANS may/will/should protect you better - but this will depend on the exact type of crash you have.

The track organizers are trying to help us be more safe on the track -- but lets face it -- the track is a very dangerous place. I know personally 3 drivers who have gone into the wall at 100MPH in DE/TT cars with full seats and harnesses and HANS -- they broke a rib and are very very sore afterward but no lasting results (hopefully)
or broken necks. My son now has a 911 track prepared car with cage, fire system, electrical shut off, Halo seat, 6 point harness, and fire suit, gloves and shoes --- all just for Time Trial. How safe can you be on the track---probability tells us the more you are exposed the higher the risk --- just like Craps, eh?

Flame suit on --- fire away

Take care,

Ed

PS: I have a MOMO seat and BK Rollbar available if you are interested...

I am in total agreement with you... if you are going to a 6 point harness you should have a HANS type device as well as proper roll over protection (cage). I have heard some discussions around the idea that you are better off without a helmet in a street car on the track unless you have a HANS device.

I put a set of RECARO's in the car for the track season, but stick with the 3 point belts as I have the airbags in the car active, and haven't put a full cage in so I prefer to be able to duck a bit if the car were to go over. Even without the 6 point belts I don't move around in the seats, they are far to tight for that to happen!

Topless · 03-20-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdex

I am in total agreement with you... if you are going to a 6 point harness you should have a HANS type device as well as proper roll over protection (cage). I have heard some discussions around the idea that you are better off without a helmet in a street car on the track unless you have a HANS device.

I put a set of RECARO's in the car for the track season, but stick with the 3 point belts as I have the airbags in the car active, and haven't put a full cage in so I prefer to be able to duck a bit if the car were to go over. Even without the 6 point belts I don't move around in the seats, they are far to tight for that to happen!

I Agree. A three point allows some torso movement to duck and protect your neck in a crash or rollover. Once you are locked in with a 6pt harness your neck becomes the weak link.