OT - Attention All Cigar Smokers!!

[Lil bastard]

I'm sure many of you are aware that the first TAX (of many) that Obama has signed into Law was the SCHIP Bill (State Children’s Health Insurance Program).

This program, while argueably laudible, uses the sale of Tobacco products to fund it (let's not do something smart like taxing cereal, which children actually eat, and which would provide much more funding to the program, but I digress).

This Tax goes into effect @12:01am 4/1/09.

It will equal 52.75% of the manufacturer's price (capped at $40.26 per cigar - cigars of $80 or more). This is a 32.05% increase over the current tax and is retroactive to all existing shop inventories as of 12:01am on 4/1/09.

So, now is the time to stock up and fill your humidors. Not only will you save the Tax, but vendors are right now offering very nice deals in order to reduce their inventries by the April 1st deadline.

Unfortunately, this will negatively affect sales and probably force many cigar stores out of business, cost jobs, and further depress our current economic climate.

But hey, such is the price of Socialism I guess. Can't wait til the Dems cast their predatory eyes toward motoring enthusiasts and collectors - it's gonna happen!

[Brucelee]

Classic liberal strategy: Tax something you think is "BAD" and deserves to be stamped out.

Of course, they are hoping you keep buying cigars, as they want the money. Imagine if it actually worked and NO CIGARS were sold at all. That would mean no money for the kids healthcare.


OWWWWWW that would be bad, or good?

[unklekraker]

sheesh..al these new tax laws that getting signed makes me want to be a caveman again :troll:

[bkiersz]

The cigar shops and martini bars that cater to the cigar crowd here in Michigan thought they had won when the smoking ban was shot down. Guess they celebrated too soon.

:ah:

[Brucelee]

With the economic sky falling, folks need their diversions. This is not the time to try go cold turkey, too much bad news! :chicken:

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by unklekraker

sheesh..al these new tax laws that getting signed makes me want to be a caveman again :troll:

As long as the cave has ample parking for the boxster, I think you'll do fine :dance:

Now go make a fire and grunt a lot when you finally get it started.

Then reinvent the wheel and pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaase improve on the design this time.

BTW, I will fill the humidor soon. I only smoke three or four a year, but I might as well buy ten year's supply and just keep the humidor nice and moist.

[bigb]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

.....
It will equal 52.75% of the manufacturer's price (capped at $40.26 per cigar - cigars of $80 or more). This is a 32.05% increase over the current tax and is retroactive to all existing shop inventories as of 12:01am on 4/1/09.

.....

If I understand the above correctly, then the 32.05% increase over the current tax means that the current tax rate is ~40% of the manufacturer's price? So, to take your example, on a cigar costing $80, the current tax is ~$32, while the tax under the new code will be ~$40?

Just trying to clarify what the numbers mean

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by bigb

If I understand the above correctly, then the 32.05% increase over the current tax means that the current tax rate is ~40% of the manufacturer's price? So, to take your example, on a cigar costing $80, the current tax is ~$32, while the tax under the new code will be ~$40?

Just trying to clarify what the numbers mean

OK... to clarify, this tax affects all tobacco and tobacco related products. Here is a list of these products, along with their current and revised tax costs:

• Product Current Rates Through March 31, 2009 / Rate April, 1 2009

• Cigarettes 39¢ per pack / $1.0066 per pack

• Large Cigars 20.719% of mfgr. price; cap of 4.875¢/cigar / 52.75% of mfgr.
  price; cap of $40.26 /cigar

• Little Cigars 4¢ per pack / $1.0066 per pack

• Pipe Tobacco $1.0969 per pound / $2.8311 per pound

• Chewing Tobacco 19.5¢ per pound / 50.33¢ per pound

• Snuff 58.5¢ per pound / $1.51 per pound

• RYO; Cigar Wrappers $1.0969 per pound / $24.78 per pound

• Cigarette Paper 1.22¢ per 50 papers / 3.15¢ per 50 papers

• Cigarette Tubes 2.44¢ per 50 tubes / 6.30¢ per 50 tubes

source: NATO - Nat'l. Assn. of Tobacco Outlets

Another concern of mine is that this tax will not be fully utilized for it's stated purpose, similar to the gains the Gov't. got from the Tobacco lawsuits. Some of that money went into building schools, roads and so on. A neat little trick the Gov't. uses is that if the revenues are not fully budgeted for a specific purpose, the 'unused' portion is then returned to the Gen'l. Fund. State Lotteries are prime examples. In my state, the wording on the Lottery Bill was that the proceeds were to be spent on Education and the Elderly. Last year, the state took in $250M in Lottery revenues, but only budgeted $60M each for Education and Elderly, $120M total. They then added the remaining $130M to the Gen't Fund to spend on all the pet projects they couldn't fund with taxes and other revenues.

Woodrow Wilson's VP, Thomas Marshall was immortalizrd by coining the phrase: "What this country needs is a really good five-cent cigar." I bet he never imagined that cigar taxes would rise to $40 per cigar! Just another Liberal Socialist idea gone wrong because the Fat Cats will still enjoy their cigars, they'll just pay the tax. But the little guy will be forced to give it up.

[bigb]

Many thanks for your detailed explanation - that clarified the confusion I had

[stephen wilson]

OK, if someone can afford to smoke $80 cigars, they can afford to pay the $40 tax!

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

OK, if someone can afford to smoke $80 cigars, they can afford to pay the $40 tax!

You're point being ...........?

[stephen wilson]

My point is, the tax isn't as high as these intentionally inflated prices would seem to indicate. I normally stay out of political discussions, so I guess I'll stick to that policy!
Steve

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

My point is, the tax isn't as high as these intentionally inflated prices would seem to indicate. I normally stay out of political discussions, so I guess I'll stick to that policy!
Steve

Well, I oppose taxes on basic moral principle. To me, I can see the value of the cigar and choose to pay or not pay. On the tax, I have no choice and I can't see any value.

Having said that, I don't smoke!

Still, I don't see any reason to stick it to folks just because they have the dough. Using that logic, anyone with less, can take from anyone who has more.

I think that is called robbery.

[stephen wilson]

I see your point. I do smoke Cigars occasionally. It suppose use taxes would be better if spread across all "non-essential" goods, not just the "bad" ones. Hell, I think a "flat tax" is a good idea, combined with use taxes. What's more fair then a percentage of what you earn? Most of us work hard, but some are compensated much better for it.

[Lil bastard]

The universal inevitabilities are Death and Taxes, no question about that.

But, we're not talking about a New tax here, just a disproportionate Tax Increase.

Seems to me that the 'New Guy's' priorities are a little messed up. Tax increases, Abortion, Stem Cell research, Food Stamp increases, Peace Treaties w/ N. Korea (or otherwise playing right into their hands) IMHO, shouldn't necessarily be #1 on the Runway when the Dow is below 7k and unemployment is the worst since the Great Depression.

But, that's a political discussion and my only purpose was to give some of our guys a heads-up about a significant price increase coming soon so they can maybe save a few bucks.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

I see your point. I do smoke Cigars occasionally. It suppose use taxes would be better if spread across all "non-essential" goods, not just the "bad" ones. Hell, I think a "flat tax" is a good idea, combined with use taxes. What's more fair then a percentage of what you earn? Most of us work hard, but some are compensated much better for it.

Fair has nothing to do with the US Tax system. The folks who take the most from the govt normally pay in little or nothing. So, fariness is in the eye of the beholder.

The great shell game of the govt is to never have anyone question them about what they are up to. If you have a strong stomach, just look at how the feds spending always goes up, irrespective of what else happens in the world.

My basic question is, WHY IS THAT?

Just a thought.

[sd_boxster]

Regardless of your political affiliation, it has to chafe you that a staggering percentage (the number is hotly debated, but it's somewhere between 40 and 50 percent) of "tax units" (single people or married couples) pay no taxes or receive a refund of 100% or more of tax they do pay.

That means that roughly 50% of eligible voters pay no tax, yet get a say in how the income of the other half gets spent.

Rather than just outlawing tobacco, slapping another tax on this non-necessity is another way to get into our wallets.

I own my own business. I pay tax on any money I have left over at the end of the year. I pay tax on the money I pay my employees. I pay "use" tax - every year - on stuff I already own. I pay property tax - every year - for the privilege of living in the home I bought with post-tax dollars. If I buy gas or tobacco, (I do buy the former, I don't the latter, but I digress), I pay a HUGE percentage in taxes. Finally, if I die and leave my money to someone else, it gets taxed yet again.

I am a patriot at heart, and I think the USA is a fantastic place to live. However, hearing that the "rich pay no taxes" makes me want to start swinging a tire iron.

The irony of paying a higher cigar tax is that money will now get burned up twice - once when you fire up your Ashton or Don Carlos, and again when the tax money gets frittered away on some social program you won't qualify for because your income is too high.

[23109VC]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

OK... to clarify

• Large Cigars 20.719% of mfgr. price; cap of 4.875¢/cigar / 52.75% of mfgr.
  price; cap of $40.26 /cigar

• Little Cigars 4¢ per pack / $1.0066 per pack

so for the guy who just goes in to buy a nice cigar to smoke/enjoy - we CURRENTLY pay a MAX of 4.8 CENTS per cigar...but the new cap will be $40... and the tax rate will essentially more than double... so if a cigar costs $10, and the tax was about $2, now your $10 cigar is going to run you 12-13 bucks..

i see it this way - when I used to hit the cigar shop and figure I could get about 5 cigars for $50 - now i'm only gonna get 3-4.

can someone explain how my cigar smoking logically shoudl be taxed to benefit this program??? why not tax people who have kids...

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by sd_boxster

Regardless of your political affiliation, it has to chafe you that a staggering percentage (the number is hotly debated, but it's somewhere between 40 and 50 percent) of "tax units" (single people or married couples) pay no taxes or receive a refund of 100% or more of tax they do pay.

That means that roughly 50% of eligible voters pay no tax, yet get a say in how the income of the other half gets spent.

Rather than just outlawing tobacco, slapping another tax on this non-necessity is another way to get into our wallets.

I own my own business. I pay tax on any money I have left over at the end of the year. I pay tax on the money I pay my employees. I pay "use" tax - every year - on stuff I already own. I pay property tax - every year - for the privilege of living in the home I bought with post-tax dollars. If I buy gas or tobacco, (I do buy the former, I don't the latter, but I digress), I pay a HUGE percentage in taxes. Finally, if I die and leave my money to someone else, it gets taxed yet again.

I am a patriot at heart, and I think the USA is a fantastic place to live. However, hearing that the "rich pay no taxes" makes me want to start swinging a tire iron.

The irony of paying a higher cigar tax is that money will now get burned up twice - once when you fire up your Ashton or Don Carlos, and again when the tax money gets frittered away on some social program you won't qualify for because your income is too high.

I am totally with you. The agony is that even though we pay for most of what is spent on others, we still get pissed on by Obama for not paying our fair share. That is such a joke. You could at least say, "hey lets tell the truth, if these birds don't keep making the jobs and dough, you slackers are done for."

It will never happen btw. It is kind of sad.

[stephen wilson]

What income bracket pays zero taxes, or receives 100% refund? They must be making $30K or less.