986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

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-   -   '09 Engine swap (http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/18861-09-engine-swap.html)

dmcutter 11-20-2008 03:41 PM

'09 Engine swap
 
Hmmm....direct injection, 310 hp, no IMS issue...so what would be involved with swapping out my old fashioned '04 3.2 for one of those puppies? :rolleyes:

silver arrow 11-20-2008 04:23 PM

Money and lots of it :D

vincesf 11-20-2008 07:09 PM

My suggestion is wait until they work out the kinks, as you may be swapping one potential problem with another.
vincesf

Cloudsurfer 11-20-2008 10:28 PM

While I'm sure this can be done, and people will figure it out, it all comes down to the cost/ benefit equation. Also, I agree, the new motors will likely have their own issues- though, in Porsche's benefit, I doubt they'll be as severe as the IMS problems.

renzop 11-21-2008 06:22 AM

You'd be better off buying a new one
 
Figure it this way - $12000 for the new motor. $4000 for the new computer. $5000 for installation and engineering to make it all work. That's $21K and you would still have a car that's worth $20K and has no warranty.

Or you can buy a new S for $65K and sell your old car for $20K. Total out of pocket will be $45K and you will end up with a car with a resale value of $60K and has a 4 year 50K mile warranty.

Its hard to find an upside to the engine swap.

kabel 11-21-2008 06:35 AM

Let me fix that for you:
Quote:

Originally Posted by renzop
Its hard to find a fiscally responsible upside to the engine swap.

:D It's not always about the money

(ironically from a guy with not a lot of money :p )

ekam 11-21-2008 06:40 AM

I'm so tempted to visit the dealer in Feb when these babies are in.

renzop 11-21-2008 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kabel
Let me fix that for you:

:D It's not always about the money

(ironically from a guy with not a lot of money :p )

No, it is not always about the money. But what other upsides would there be to doing the swap?

1) Ease of transaction - the new car is easier to obtain than the development process for a new engine swap

2) Reliability - the new car is new all over not just the engine. With the swap you have a bucket of old used parts surrounding a new engine. The new car comes with a warranty.

3) Handling - the new car offers wider wheels and better suspension tuning, better brakes, more sophisticated PSM and ABS

4) Interior comfort - the new car offers more room, more comfort, better ergonomics and .... drumroll please - cup holders.

The only upside I think you can give to the swap is it will be a conversation piece and the owner can take pride in doing something different. That's of very dubious value (IMHO)

Regards,
Alan

silver arrow 11-21-2008 08:35 AM

The thing that keeps me in my 986 and thinking about a Raby engine or egine swap is that I think the 986 is just a nicer looking car. For some reason the look of the 987 never struck a cord with me. That brings me to the best, most expensive solution of all. Rebody a new 987 with carbon fiber 986 body work. :D It's a win-win-lose situation. You get the best looking Boxster and it'll be lighter than a regular 987, a great interior and drivetrain and lose lots of money.

JP-s-in st. louis 11-21-2008 08:54 AM

FYI I have my 3.6 for sale that has the latest version of IMS.

Paul 11-22-2008 04:40 PM

The point of using a 2009 motor is the fact that it does not have an Intermediate Shaft unlike your 3.6.

dmcutter 11-22-2008 07:16 PM

He gets it! Not to mention that I like the dash on my 986 better than the set up in the 987, and I spent all that money on my KW coilovers...

silver arrow 11-25-2008 09:22 AM

How do you like the KW's

Allen K. Littlefield 11-25-2008 10:14 AM

[QUOTE=silver arrow]The thing that keeps me in my 986 and thinking about a Raby engine or egine swap is that I think the 986 is just a nicer looking car. <<<<<<


Exactamundo! I love the look of the 986. I did add the '03/04 "facelift" side vent covers and clear lights fore & aft on my '02 gives me just what I wanted in looks. The cost of a new crate 3.2 from Porsche is as much or close to what a Raby engine would be and you have a better engine. Hope I never have to do an engine swap but if it happens I think Raby may be getting a phone call from me.

AKL :dance:

Lil bastard 11-25-2008 12:08 PM

[QUOTE=Allen K. Littlefield]
Quote:

Originally Posted by silver arrow
The thing that keeps me in my 986 and thinking about a Raby engine or egine swap is that I think the 986 is just a nicer looking car. <<<<<<


Exactamundo! I love the look of the 986. AKL :dance:

I agree, I think the 986 is the better design. If you look at cars through the years, the initial design almost always gets it right, or nearly right.

'Facelifts' are usually the product of trying to update (or contemporize) the car with the trends of that period without a total redesign. The look is 'tacked-on'. Many times, it's also just the design studio's way to justify their salaries. This process almost always 'freezes' the 'facelift' more definitely to a specific period than the initial design.

I think the vent covers is a good case-in-point. Personally, I do not like the newer ones. I feel they add an angular dimension to an otherwise 'fluid', or curving, original design.

But, think about contemporary styling of that day - everything was going 'angular' , the F-117 look - think wheels, the 'stealth' Cadillacs, Scion's, etc. In fact, Cadillac actually selected this look after their focus groups listed the most modern design as the Stealth Fighter (which was actually a crude '70's design, but not introduced to the public until the '90's by which time it had already been superceded by the much more fluid B-2).

As a design, I believe the original 986 will age much better than the later cars. In 20 years the original 986 will still look 'right' while the later cars will look more dated. But, that doesn't make it right or wrong so far as people's own personal choice is concerned.

I've also started a fund for a Raby motor. I just hope that this fund, my needs, and a Raby 'Tiptronic-friendly' motor all intersect the same point in time. :)

vincesf 11-25-2008 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul
The point of using a 2009 motor is the fact that it does not have an Intermediate Shaft unlike your 3.6.

I'm sure the new motor, minus an Intermediate Shaft is a very fine engine; however, version 3.0 with an IMS may turn out to be more reliable than version 1.0 without an IMS.

vincesf

silver arrow 11-25-2008 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil bastard
I agree, I think the 986 is the better design. If you look at cars through the years, the initial design almost always gets it right, or nearly right.

'Facelifts' are usually the product of trying to update (or contemporize) the car with the trends of that period without a total redesign. The look is 'tacked-on'. Many times, it's also just the design studio's way to justify their salaries. This process almost always 'freezes' the 'facelift' more definitely to a specific period than the initial design.

I think the vent covers is a good case-in-point. Personally, I do not like the newer ones. I feel they add an angular dimension to an otherwise 'fluid', or curving, original design.

But, think about contemporary styling of that day - everything was going 'angular' , the F-117 look - think wheels, the 'stealth' Cadillacs, Scion's, etc. In fact, Cadillac actually selected this look after their focus groups listed the most modern design as the Stealth Fighter (which was actually a crude '70's design, but not introduced to the public until the '90's by which time it had already been superceded by the much more fluid B-2).

As a design, I believe the original 986 will age much better than the later cars. In 20 years the original 986 will still look 'right' while the later cars will look more dated. But, that doesn't make it right or wrong so far as people's own personal choice is concerned.

I've also started a fund for a Raby motor. I just hope that this fund, my needs, and a Raby 'Tiptronic-friendly' motor all intersect the same point in time. :)


My car should need a clutch soon, so I'm planning on trying to take a preventive approach to the engine problems. Excellence had a great article about the M96 engines and Raby rebuilds and upgrades. When I do the clutch I'm going to update to the Raby IMS if available and most recent RMS. ( I also understand that the double IMS bearings can't be replaced without taking engine apart, I don't know which my car has. It's a 2000 base Boxster. ) I'm going to do more frequent oil changes, add one of Raby's oil baffles and an oil cooler to try and extend the life of the engine. It has 62,000 on it now and I would love to get 120,000 out of it before having to do a complete rebuild.

EE3racing 11-25-2008 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renzop
Figure it this way - $12000 for the new motor. $4000 for the new computer. $5000 for installation and engineering to make it all work. That's $21K and you would still have a car that's worth $20K and has no warranty.

Or you can buy a new S for $65K and sell your old car for $20K. Total out of pocket will be $45K and you will end up with a car with a resale value of $60K and has a 4 year 50K mile warranty.

Its hard to find an upside to the engine swap.


As the years go by this equation is likely to improve for the used Boxster owner. Accidents & mistreatment will produce a pool of donor vehicles so it's not out of the question for those among us who can't afford to buy a new one. I think the suggestions in last months Excellence for the M96 combined with a careful selection of conrods and pistons could produce a real sleeper for the older Box owner and a true performance gain for much less money than an 09 unit.

BYprodriver 11-25-2008 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silver arrow
The thing that keeps me in my 986 and thinking about a Raby engine or egine swap is that I think the 986 is just a nicer looking car. For some reason the look of the 987 never struck a cord with me. That brings me to the best, most expensive solution of all. Rebody a new 987 with carbon fiber 986 body work. :D It's a win-win-lose situation. You get the best looking Boxster and it'll be lighter than a regular 987, a great interior and drivetrain and lose lots of money.


+ 1 on 986 looks over 987


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