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Old 03-28-2008, 01:53 AM   #1
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Porsche 911 Turbo - Dead Last?

I just got the latest issue of Road & Track. The title of the issue: Outrageous! Nissan's GT-R Spanks Porsche 911 Turbo and Corvette Z06.

They tested the three cars at Buttonwillow raceway with Steve Millen at the controls. Laptimes for each: Nissan 1:56.9 (84 MPH Avg); Porsche 2:02.1 (80.4 MPH Avg); Corvette 2:02.2 (80.3 MPH Avg). They ranked the Nissan first, Corvette second and the Porsche dead last.

Now, I am sure that with all the technical enhancements in the GT-R, I could turn much faster laps than in the Porsche Turbo. With the ATTESA E-TS (try explaining that to your friends) the Nissan practically drives itself. However, I am not sure that it is a good thing. The excitement and pleasure of driving is that you are the one who is controlling the car. There is a sense of accomplishment when you can push it to its limit (or in my case somewhere generally around the limit) and adjusting your line with throttle inputs, brakes, steering.... so on and so forth. It seems that all you need with the Nissan is to point the car and mash the throttle as much as your courage allows.

I also have a problem with their subjective ratings (always did). They rated the Porsche dead last in driving excitement, brakes, handling, exterior styling and ergonomics/controls. They also rated it second best in engine and steering. I have not driven a Z06 or a 911 Turbo. However, I have driven a current Corvette as well as a 911 Carrera S. I thought the handling, driving excitement, steering, brakes, fit/finish, ergonomics and exterior styling of the 911 S was far superior than the Corvette.

Last and most important point - the GT-R is UGLY
It is just massive with awkward lines and angles. The Corvette is just rather plain. (Not to offend any Corvette owners... current styling does not invoke any feelings - good or bad; and makes me long for the Vettes of the 60's)

I guess I am biased but even with the test results... I would choose the 911 Turbo.

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Old 03-28-2008, 04:42 AM   #2
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Maybe they liked having 2 GT-Rs for the price of one 911 turbo?
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:27 AM   #3
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I will agree that the GTR is fugly...certainly fast but fugly. And it is a Nissan.
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:45 AM   #4
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+1 on ugly.
Bet they sell all they make - a lot of horsepower and technology for the price.
But the looks???

Wonder if $70 is the true cost, or if it is under-priced figuring they'll sell enough extra Altimas and Maximas to make up the difference, and since many will sell for a premium anyway?
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:00 AM   #5
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Sure would be interesting to see resale figures on all three cars at 1, 3, and 5 years as a percentage of MSRP. I'm pretty sure the rankings would be reversed, with the GT-R a distant third.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:06 AM   #6
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A guy that comes into my work put one on order through a dealer and he'll be paying $90K. I think it's ugly and can think of lots of other cars I'd rather have for that price. They may not perform as well but, they sure look alot better.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:55 AM   #7
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Perhaps the day is coming soon when Porsche will have to abandon the protection of the feelings of 911 owners. Let's face it, they could make a super Cayman that would compete in a far more favorable manner, I guess overall sales and proftiability as always guides the decisions of Manufacturers.
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:45 AM   #8
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Well. clearly the Nisan is the fastest lap car, assuming the mag folks can run a timer.

The rest is all just opinion, which is fine.

Specific to looks, I have to say I have grown tired of the 911 style. It is fine to uphold tradition but man, lets generate some imagination for a change.

Hey, your next gen 911 will actually look more like our OLDER last generation car? We are paying stylists to do that?

Ah, what does this spell for 2015?

Again, just an opinion, but I would like to see some original styling out of these guys.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:00 AM   #9
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911 Turbo wasn't as nimble as I thought it would be. granted it was a 996 and not the 997. But I haven't heard of it being radically different albeit radically EXPENSIVE! I'd much rather look forward to a few 10/10's laps in the Z06, that stance and footprint reminds of an LMP.

As for the car doing most of the driving for you like the Nissan. I'm not so sure that's a bad thing. Going that fast in a car with that much oopmh is fun no matter how you slice it. And the average non-professional driver will rarely get close enough to the limit to even know what its like to miss the last few tenths that automation will rob you of taking credit for.

and I'm sure reliability for Nissan will squash that of the Chevy and the expensive to fix German.

p.s. I'll take the Audi R8 over either of the three. Looks like Bugatti Veyron(sp?)
at 1/10 the price. The others look like glorified version of their entry level models.
You have to look close to tell the difference between their entry level versions.

p.s.s
this thread needs pics
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:53 AM   #10
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The GT-R is blindingly fast. It had a similar experience at Nurbergring. Blind is a good thing 'cause it is monstrous looking.

I am actually surprised the 997 Turbo outran the Z06 at Buttonwillow. It has tons of HP and grip but it's heavy and not usually a great track car. They are often found at the bottom of a track day results page. Novice drivers who bit off more than they can chew I think.

Steve Millen is a great driver. He is a former rally and offroad guy back in my day who later got into open wheel, 24hr Le Mans, and other series and always did very well.
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:25 AM   #11
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I had a 911T (996) version. I have to say I did not care for the car all that much. Didn['t hate it, just didn't really like it.

Tight inside, not really a good touring car, felt heavy.

Yes, it did run hard when you got on it but all in all, not a very satisfying car to own, at least to me.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:57 PM   #12
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Hey, how would a GT3 fare against a 911 Turbo? Would it be faster around the track than the Turbo?
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:22 PM   #13
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A Stock TT is not as quick at most tracks as the "sharper" and lighter GT3.

As for resale value, thats a tough one two.. You can get a 2001/2002 high mileage 996TT for 50K. Thats less than 1/2 original MSRP. Heck, 993 TTs still trade at or above that mark. When you build more cars (and the 996TT was built in large buckets full compared to the 993) resale value drops.

I'd be curious how many "ad" pages in the new issue are for Nissan though

Sometimes the most expensive isn't the fastest fellas.. afterall, we all know the boxster would spank a Turbo if it had similar hp
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:04 PM   #14
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racer, it's not about the ad pages, the Nissan beat all comers on the Nurrenburg ring, it's ugly but very capable.
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Old 03-29-2008, 08:14 AM   #15
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I'm not too surprised. Even Excellence is luke warm over the 997 turbo. They site the same issues with suspension tuning and slight turbo lag. The hard truth is that the 997 turbo is a very fat, very fast boulivard cruiser. Two tons on a 911 isn't something Porsche should be proud of.
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Old 03-29-2008, 09:50 PM   #16
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I don't care if the Nissan is faster. I'll take the Porsche any day.
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Old 03-30-2008, 05:03 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucelee
Again, just an opinion, but I would like to see some original styling out of these guys.
Agreed... The guys at Zuffenhause needs to work on trying to make the current Porsche look fresh but still timeless and beautiful.

I still would take the 911 turbo over the Nissan (Ideally the GT3).

Perfectlap, you have an old photo. That is the pre-production model. The actual production model is more angular and even more ugly (if that is possible)
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Old 03-30-2008, 07:27 AM   #18
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Styling wise, I enjoyed the work on the 944, 968 and 928. Over time, I think these designs have aged well.

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Old 03-30-2008, 08:18 AM   #19
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I've driven a Z06 and instruct for PCA Chicago region. 911 turbos are fast, but very heavy; you can feel the weight behind the wheel. The Nissan should stay on the playstation games where it belongs. Now I have to wonder why they didn't compare these to a GT3 or even a GT3RS? Would have kicked the snot out of it.
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Old 03-30-2008, 08:27 AM   #20
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If they are going to compare the best that two companies,Nissan and Chevy have to offer why don't they compare the best that Porsche has to offer?! Wouldn't the 997 GT2 be the only thing that would be fair to compare in this comparison?

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