To 'S' or not to 'S'
 

To the 986 enthusiasts on this board:

I'm about to take the plunge into my first p-car. I've had a blast (read "perma-grin") test driving a few great boxster examples so far. BUT, I haven't spent enough miles in any one of them to uncover those little nuances you get by driving hours behind the wheel. Plus, the dorky sales guys yapping beside me hasn't helped either - but that's another story.

So....my question to those who have logged a few hours:

If you had the funds for either a 2000-S OR a newer 2002 2.7L, which do you choose?

The valuation on these two are about the same and although I'm hearing "buy the newest Porsche you can afford" - the extra performance of the 'S' is pretty attractive.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience to a newb....

Same boat here.

I have poured all through the forums and taken in a lot of knowledge. Right now I have either a private sale 01' -S with 77,000k Mi. private sale with all history.

or numerous 01'-03' dealer cars with 40K miles all within my budget.

So I know exactly what is going through your mind.

Good luck shopping!

My vote is the S simply for the extra performance.

What are the power numbers on the S and 2.7?
Is what ever the power difference is. Is that number worth getting an older car?

I have a 2.5 so I dont know allot about the 2.7 but I think there are more upgrades for the S.

Wait a few hours and I am sure there will be many people that make better arguments than I for each car.

I'd vote for the S. It's not just the extra horsepower. You also get a very slick 6 speed transmission, third radiator, improved suspension, and brakes that are simply amazing. Of course I'm biased, I have a 2000 Boxster S.

I debated this same issue over and over in my mind too - and almost just as you have presented it. I was immediately taken in by the additional hp of the S cars I drove so I was leaning toward an S. I ran across a good deal on a 2000S - and with matching hardtop - so I snatched it up. I've been very pleased but I've read others comment that the gearing is a bit long for 250hp and that's made me wonder if the shorter gearing of the 5 speed although with less hp would have been a better combination. I would really like to drive a 2.7L again to compare. However, all these thoughts may change once I've had a chance to autocross the car - or it may confirm it. I suspect in mundane everyday driving it wouldn't have mattered much to me whether it was a 2.7 or a 3.2 but for those rare spirited drives, or on the track, or in an autocross it seemed like the 3.2 would be worth it. I'm also wondering now whether I should have tried to find a car that had the sport suspension upgrade. Either way, I know you're going to have a lot of fun with either car.

the gearing may be a touch long, but hey, 97mph in 3rd is quite fun

Go the S you won't regret it! :cheers:

It depends. If the car is going to be a daily driver, I would go with lower miles even if that means not having an S. But if it is going to be a weekend car I would spring for the S, because the high miles won't be as big a problem. It is up to you, both cars are great but if the HP is more important than almost 30k miles less on the car, go for it! :cheers:

Tough decision, there is a great article about this very question on the commentary page of the February Excellence. The article opens with the sentence, "the most thrilling Porsche is not always the sweetest Porsche". I have always wanted the S, bigger brakes and a sixth gear would be nice. However, driven with spirit, my 2.5 will get you a ticket on every outing. Unless you are going to track the car the issue will be how fast do you want to be driving illegally. As someone else noted, when buying used, condition, warranty, options and mileage are more important factors.

Although this is a review of the 987/987S, it may give you some more insight:

http://www.windingroad.com/reviews-page/porsche-boxster-and-boxster-s/

"Over the road, it’s clear the bog-standard Boxster paired with the regular five-speed and seventeen-inch wheels is the enthusiast’s best buy. Not only does the optional six-speed Tiptronic S transmission cost $3210, it also occasionally second-guesses its driver. It’s not that the uplevel S is unreasonably priced—it’s just that standard model’s intrinsic goodness is so total that it’s obviously the best value. In most situations, the S’s horsepower simply isn’t missed, and the base model feels a bit lighter on its feet to boot. Just make sure to go for the DIY cogswapper."

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Either an "S" or "non-S", whichever one you choose I'm quite certain you'll have a "perma-grin" :D in either case!

Good luck with your choice!

Great info guys.

Seeing cars like Gary in BR and Randalls make me feel comfortable that a well maintained 986 will make it past 150k

This purchase is for a 3rd car in the family (along with a Ducati Monster) that I expect that will see approx 7k miles a year. I also plan on keeping it till it disolves (LOL) so resale value is not big to me.

I will start a new thread so as not to hijack this one. I am curious about your thoughts on this particular 01'-S

ignore the "unles you are going to drive on the track" talk.
The extra oomph of the 3.2 comes in very handy in daily driving like when passing cars, merging on highway ramps and I'm a big proponent of having the best brakes available (that don't cost $10K to replace).

I could have bought a brand new 986S and a few higher mileage one or two year old S models when I was shopping around, but when I found an extremely low mileage 2000 S that was fresh out of warranty I thought this was a perfect match.
I'm a propenent of getting the lowest mileage S model that has a full service history and ideally one that comes with an extended engine/trans warranty.

My first p-car was a non S, within three months I sold the non S and picked up an S. IMO, night and day between the two (power, interior upgrades, bigger brakes, suspension). Plus, car searches for used Boxster's seem to return many more non S's, so, from a resale perspective, the S is the way to go. Either way, you will love your Box, good luck!

You gotta get what you want.

From my perspective, I originally went shopping for a 2001 S. I drove several S and base models. All the S models I drove were pretty thrashed or had a bunch of cheesy boyracer mods. Then I found this car: older than I wanted but a pristine, one owner 98 base model. It had flawless service records and was garaged at home and at work. I have not been disappointed. For me car condition was more important than HP. If I found an S in such good condition I would have bought it though.

Side note: I do regularly track my car and have no trouble running right with the S models or 996's for that matter. The fastest 986 times are still being laid by a pair of stock base Boxsters in our area.

I test drove both... and wound up with a 2000 non-S. I liked the previous owner and the history (that had everything to do with my purchase) I'm not a horsepower guy, I just wanted a third car for top down weekend drives on the country roads. I'm completely happy with it! I figured if I ever wanted a really fast car I'd look at a Corvette etc... I feel guilty though for only driving it 2000 miles it's first year. I need to correct that this summer!

It really depends on your driving habits and what it is you enjoy. The first Boxster I drove was a 2.5l tiptronic and it just didn't do anything for me. The S put me back in the seat a bit and was like wow. With a few mods its like really wow. But I am more of a g-force junkie. I like the feel of acceleration and the S does that while doing everything else right.

Life is short...get the S :cheers:

I would opt for getting an S if it is within your budget. Find a clean Boxster S, and you will be amazed at how great the car this car truly is.
vincesf

What I am really amazed with is the quality and thoughtfulness of the responses! Thanks (and do keep 'em coming).

Awesome forum you got here - look forward contributing as an owner rather than from the outside looking in.

Purchase is just a few weeks away when my wife is out of town. Pix will be forthcoming.

Me thinks you spoke too soon. Seen my thread about stripped out caliper bolt heads?

I wonder what my car would look like today if I had owned it brand new and kept it for ten years. A LOT better than it is today, that's for sure!

BTW, mine had a new engine put in it at 80k, just before I bought it. No idea why it was replaced, but it was brand new.

PS - GET AN S.

If I had the guts I would buy a high mileage, non-S, drop a 3.4 in it and then make the appropriate mods to the suspension and the brakes. The S seems to be an off-the-shelf happy medium of what I wish I could have and what I perceive the base as being (key word being "perceive").

As seen driving with Randall and NickCats, I don't think the difference is as big as I thought it would be. NickCats autocrosses quite a bit with me and he is only a few seconds behind me which I think is primarily the difference between my R compounds and his tires. Randall, and the other base models, held their own at last years Tail of the Dragon trip.

When I originally bought my car I was looking at a base model but fell in love with the white face gauges, six speed (worthless in my opinion) and the bright red calipers.

To sum it up if I can't do what I mention in my first sentence I would probably opt for the S simply due to my perception of having more power, awesome brakes, a few styling cues, and the fact that the S is on the rear trunk.

:cheers:

Thought long and hard about it myself.... went with the S.... couldn't be happier.

I have never driven a non S Boxster but I have driven a base 987 Cayman and wasn't impressed with the engine mated to the 5 speed transmission. The acceleration felt very dull.

In contrast my 2000 Boxster S pins me in my seat in the first few gears. This is probably due to the bigger engine and more torque along with the 6 speed tranny that allows different gearing.

I am extremely satisfied with the acceleration of my 2000 Boxster S, and I have owned such cars as the Honda S2000, a 2001 BMW M Coupe (315HP) and a highly modified Subaru WRX.

The price difference in the used market between a clean S and non S isn't really big...what's 2000$ more over 4-5 years worth to you? IMHO the HP difference vs the difference in price is in your favor...

You'll kick yourself if you don't get the S!

I use my Boxster S in every day city driving and the extra low end torque really helps zip in and out of traffic, along with those spirited highway runs where the engine feels like it can pull forever!

986 non S and S , of course get the S

987 non S and 986 S will be a diffterent story.

While shopping for my Boxster, I drove as many as I could including 986, 986S, 987, & 987S. The two "S" models were great. The base model 987 was very close behind the 986S in terms of feel and performance.

There are two main reasons why I prefer the S models -- torque and the 6sp. The 6sp tranny shifts much nicer than the 5sp (in my opinion). The torque for the larger engines in the S models is very obvious and makes for a much more responsive throttle in typical driving.

Buy the S.

Best advice I can offer is to drive as many cars as you can. Even if they aren't ones you think you may buy. Use dealers for this, since they often have several different years, models, and equipment levels in stock. You'll quickly learn to tell what a Boxster should feel like. Then when you find the perfect one (in terms of color, equipment, etc.) you will be able to feel right away if the car is at top health (in terms of engine, tranny, suspension, shifting feel, etc.).

In my shopping, I found 30k mile cars that felt like crap and 60k cars that ran and rode much better. I ended up buying a 92k mile car that felt absolutely perfect (and had only 25k on a replacement engine).

Pcar - this is good advice on all points especially about the feel of the car. Don't forget the pre purchase inspection as others have probably already said.

^funny thing is I have gotten into the habit of skipping 5th gear. Seems like I always need either 4th or 6th but rarely 5th.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's my story.

I looked for an earlier 986 S. I drove one, and liked it, but i felt the suspension a bit rough (it very well could have been the age of the 986). IIRC, it had 40k miles and was in decent condition.

Then I drove a 987 base. Acceleration, braking and handling were on par or better than the 986S, but the suspension was far mor compliant (w/ 17s). Then the dealer found me an 05 987 w/ 19s and the right set of options and I was hooked. The lower profile tires sharpened the steering response (but harshened the ride). Another plus was that the suspensions are the same with the 987 base and S.

I've put approx 5k miles on the car since May, and have loved every one of them. I used to think that I wouldn't be happy with anything but and "S", but I am wrong -- happily.

Jason

Loud and clear!!

The S owners on this board are either really opinionated or REALLY love their cars.

LOL ...... awesome!

Yup and just like when I owned my 944, the big boys want the rest of us to de badge our no go show boats.

Yes, S owner must really like their cars, but quite frankly I have driven non-S model Boxsters and thought they are great as well. The handling and balance of the car is truly exceptional. I would take a regular Boxster over any Lotus Elise, Honda S2000, BMW Z4, Mercedes 350 SLK, and Nissan 350Z. The S is an added bonus, provided it fits your budget.
vincesf

986, 987, S, non-S
 

Last year (late-January/early Feb) I went on the hunt for a replacement for my 01 Guards Red non-S. I initially started out looking for an 04 S ideally the special edition model. I found both a special edition S and a non special edition S at the same dealer and travelled the 2 hours for some shopping. While there I spotted a new 06 non S nicely equipped with full warranty less than 200mi on the clock and the price was less than the 04 S and 04 special edition S. CPO was already done so no bargaining there. Dealer wanted/needed to move the 06 so I got a great deal.

What did I gain?
1. Full Warranty.
2. 987 Improvements, interior, trunks, etc.
3. New tires/brakes/clutch/RMS/top/etc.
4. Better gas mileage.

What did I lose?
1. 6 speed.
2. about 15 - 25 Hp
3. 30 ft-lbs
4. dings, chips, scratches from the PO.
5. 10-25K of potential PO abuse.
6. Crappy replacement tires.

I can sing the pluses and minuses of each of these gains and losses. It will depend on what you plan on spending and getting a 986 S is probably a better bet than a 986 (although I loved my 01). An 05 987 vs. an 02/03 986 S may be a whole different story. Drive em all; research on porscheusa, edmunds, kellys; then make the right choice for you.

Yes I would love a 987 S but it is hard to find one that is appropriately equipped (I do not like too many gadgets that are overpriced and drive up the cost) without ordering one which usually precludes a great deal. But again it would take a really nice 04 986 S special edition to make me think twice about my decision.

Final note: 05 and 06 S's are not showing up used too much yet. But .... a large number of Boxster leave their first owner at the 2.5-4 year point (fear of no warranty, kids, 3-year lease, who knows?) For 05/06 987's, we are there so expect more to become available start showing up on the lot.

Hope this helps.
ATB,
Tom

PS My wife still drives a 2002 -- 986 non-S she wants a Cayman S but I don't want to finance a new police building.

My .02

I went through the same decision dilemma. For me, I wanted the power/suspension of the S but preferred the styling of the base (black gauges, single exhaust tip, black vs. silver trim pieces).

In the end, I found a low mileage garage queen base (02/Seal Gray/Black/sport pkg) at a good price and went for it.

I love the car but do wish it had more power below 3-3.5k rpms. Above that, the power is adequate. Otherwise, the car is a blast.

I can't see trading it for an S since I know I have a good one.

However, I'm thinking about moving to the Cayman (I have another convertible already). Unfortunately, I'm back to the same decision - base or S. I really can't afford the S now so I'm wondering if a base 987 Cayman will give me close to a 986 S feel. Crap - it never ends :confused: :)

what really matters is the 6 speed and the brakes. Figure how much a six speed swap would be then the s-brakes and that alone will make you decide what way to go not to mention the 3.2 over 2.7. as said before no offense but I wouldnt wast my time with the non, but the ones I have driven were nice.

mn box s is probably right,

A base 986 Boxster is just a slow worthless POS and a total waste of time.

But wait! Before we jump to conclusions perhaps we should compare recent run times from some of best drivers in the country. Compare the best Base Boxsters with the best Boxster S, Cayman S, GT3, and TT's. The results may surprise you: http://www.pcasdr.org/parade/results/ParadeAX.htm

At speeds over 120mph the more powerful cars have a decided advantage. At real world speeds (less than 100mph) the Base Boxster is hard to beat.

I find my 6-speed to be one gear too many. It's a marketing upgrade more than a performance one. You're not missing anything there.

On the brakes, they are fantastic, but from what I've seen of the 2.5/2.7L brakes, they're great too.

I actually like to push my sports cars and the more power, the more restrained you have to be with your driving. I find the S to be a constant exercise in constantly holding back. I can't imagine what the guys driving Vipers must go through. For day to day, the non-S is probably more rewarding.

In an AX, the base won't give much away at all. However, if you look at the really fast times for "base" Boxsters in that list, they are in the Modified class. Meaning, better brakes, upgraded suspension, more horsepower. The base is a popular car in AX because it has such a great chassis, and can be bought cheaper than an S, leaving more money for mods.

Put an unmodified base and S on a road course, and you'll see a greater advantage for the S. It won't be night and day, but it will be faster. It'll also be carrying more speed at the end of the straights, so it will get you in over your head a little quicker, demanding a bit more skill to drive.

IMO, the S is more pleasurable to drive in normal daily traffic mode because of the increased torque. But that's not where either one really shines though, is it? ;)

They are both great cars. Enjoy what you've got, or whatever you get.

For daily street driving, simply get "the best one you can afford" and not get hung up on the "S/NonS" side of things.

Over the years, I have learned that DRIVER skill is way more important than a few HP or brake sizes. I have happily passed 911 drivers with my 100hp 914 at the track. I have happily passed 300hp 911s with my 200hp 911 and yes, I have happilly passed Boxster Ss with my base Boxster.

So.. buy the best Boxster you can afford to. If you have specific goals that would be rewarded by having more gears, bigger brakes (not necesarily better, just bigger), a 3rd radiator and a few more hp, then go for the S!

That performance grid is sweet vindication, big LOL to the post that said the 2.5 lacked passing & merge ability. My first car was a 1.1 Opel Kadette, a sewing machine motor would have propelled it at a greater velocity. After reading this months Excelllence, I just hope my 2.5 sleeved, low milage motor doesn't blow up as apparently many others have...So far it runs like a clock, never had a RMS leak either...



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