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Old 02-01-2008, 11:34 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by racer_d
For daily street driving, simply get "the best one you can afford" and not get hung up on the "S/NonS" side of things.

Over the years, I have learned that DRIVER skill is way more important than a few HP or brake sizes. I have happily passed 911 drivers with my 100hp 914 at the track. I have happily passed 300hp 911s with my 200hp 911 and yes, I have happilly passed Boxster Ss with my base Boxster.

So.. buy the best Boxster you can afford to. If you have specific goals that would be rewarded by having more gears, bigger brakes (not necesarily better, just bigger), a 3rd radiator and a few more hp, then go for the S!
What's your point? And I bet a 1997 Protege with a better driver than you can pass you in a Boxster S. But does that mean that the Protege will be more fun to drive?

And what about Ferrari drivers. Why buy a Ferrari when a great driver in a Porsche can pass it on a tight track?



I'm tired of people saying that it's not worth getting the better car because X car can be faster on a race track with a superior driver. Duh...but that doesn't mean that you won't have more fun with the better car.

There's a big difference between the Boxster and the Boxster S. Unless you're trying to prove to people that you can be faster around a race track with a less powerful car, get the S if acceleration is important to you.

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Old 02-02-2008, 07:29 AM   #42
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Diamonds

I have always answered this type of ? with the diamond formula..... I.E. From a distance most diamonds the same size look alike. But as you get closer you notice things like price, resale, and peace of mind. By peace of mind I mean, how you as the owner will always feel about that particular diamond. Or in this case that particular Porsche Boxster or maybe even an S. Both look great. Both perform great.
But.... If you bought a standard Boxster would you ever regret not buying an S instead?! I have always over bought when it came to cars. They almost alway out resale the lesser vehicle as does a diamond with a better color, cut, and clarity. Yes a better driver in a lesser car could out drive you if your skill didn't match his or hers's. But how often does that occur? Where? I drive 60 miles each day with my S and generally stick to the back twisties here. It's me and the S alone. When I make a mistake the S covers me on it. I'd like to think that the standard Boxster would do the same. But really I dont care because I purchased the S to satisfy my diamond formula. I also dont get pestered by those S2000 owners with license plates that say Boxster Bait. When im on the freeway they see the S on the back and avoid the spanking. So to conclude.... Think about diamonds when it comes to an S or not to S.... They look alike from a distance but.....
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:58 AM   #43
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I debated the same when I bought mine.

I ended up buying the non-S because it was plenty fast enough for me, coming from SUVs, trucks, and sedans. After owning it a year, I wish I would have gone S, you get used to the nonS quickly and that 0-70 merge onto the interstate would be much more fun if you could do it a second quicker.

I would go S, if you are like me, you will spend the difference between the two cars in mods anyway, a larger motor is the best mod you could wish for.
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Old 02-02-2008, 05:45 PM   #44
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Hello.. I am a newbie here..

here is my dilemna..

brand new 08 Boxster Limited Edition - $53000 out the door price

used 06 Boxster S - $49000

brand new 08 BMW Z4 M - $53000 out the door price...

any suggestions? the Limited Edition is such an eye catcher! and the Z4M is absolutely set on rails and pins you back in your seat in every gear.

I'm lost.. don't know what to get!!
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:37 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfurman
Hello.. I am a newbie here..

here is my dilemna..

brand new 08 Boxster Limited Edition - $53000 out the door price

used 06 Boxster S - $49000

brand new 08 BMW Z4 M - $53000 out the door price...

any suggestions? the Limited Edition is such an eye catcher! and the Z4M is absolutely set on rails and pins you back in your seat in every gear.

I'm lost.. don't know what to get!!

1- 2007 Boxster S with 295HP; get one with a few more miles you'll find it for 50 000$

2- BMW M Z4 roadster: that thing is a blast. The engine is almost too powerful for the chassis, oversteer everywhere...and the noise at 7800rpms....orgasm...
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:13 PM   #46
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There is not a World of Difference between the 'S' and base cars. That is, the 'S' doesn't blow the base car away.

The concept car and the 1st 4 years production (55,604 units) were all base cars. If these were not up to snuff, Porsche would never have even gotten to produce the 'S'.

Stay in gear a little longer, and you have the 'S' until you reach the stratosphere on the tach anyway.

Since '00, Porsche Boxster production has been 50/50 Base/'S', so there is a satisfied market with the Base.

If you gotta have the most, go for the 'S'. The Brakes are better but the Base's brakes are more than adequate for street and occaisional track driving, the 'S' brakes are pretty much overkill. Interior appointments are better (to some). More power up top, but how often do you live there?

There is more power/torque, but the point is moot in everyday driving.

Whichever you choose, be prepared to still be blown away by 5.0 stangs, WRXs, and Vettes (not to mention the wave of Aftermarket massaged Civics, Integras, etc.). Neither of the Boxster itinerations are gonna be Pinks winners when compared to some of the other offerings out there.

At the end of the day, you're buying a singular car. Buy the one which is in the best shape for the least $$, but then, don't look back. And don't buy until you can do this.

Is the 'S' better? Yes. Is it worth the price differential? Only you can say. Drive several of both models and then decide.

If you're swayed by what others think, then game over - go for the 'S'. But, if you're looking for the most bang for your buck in a Boxster, then it's up to the individual car. A ********************ty 'S' (and there's lots of them out there) will make for a much poorer Porsche experience than a well sorted Base model.

But, research the H*ll out of the car to insure that the Boxster, any Boxster, is actually the right car for you. It isn't the right car for everyone which helps explain the flood of used ones (both Base and 'S') which are constantly on the market - these cars are not generally kept longterm. You may actually be happier with a Vette, Stang or other import, again, only you can decide.

And, take your time. The one thing the world is not short of is used Boxsters. Good Luck!

Last edited by Lil bastard; 02-02-2008 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:23 PM   #47
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Is it okay with you to have the slowest Porsche of the last ten years? If not, get an S.
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Old 02-03-2008, 08:00 PM   #48
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This is going to piss a lot of people off so listen to the first part please! lots of great car loving great driving women out here on 986 forums and we (men) salute you. Ok there was a post saying 50/50 non-s/S models, can you find a percentage of men to women owning these and while your at it look at slk's and Z's? Ill bet you find a much larger % of women driving the base models. My assumption on this is that most women say oh it looks so cute I'd look just darling in that. That being the non S. What really got me thinking about this is when I first purchased my S. All, and I mean all, of my car buddies (and theres alot of them) called my car a girls car. A. I hate convertable's B. Boxsters are pussy C. boxsters are cute. Thats how most people (motor heads) think along with my self. Only after moding my car and giving these peeps a ride (i can drive) did I wipe off that smirk. People probably wouldnt even talk to me if I had a non-s (unmodded), not because of what I spent but because the lack of testicles. So to sum it up if you cant aford an S buy a 944T if you can get the S. So to all non-s, non-modded car owners. Just remember, its cute! Sorry if your mad at me, its not me your mad at, dont shoot the messenger. I just did for you what your friends couldn't. .... the only reason I posted this is because Im sick of reading to S or not to S, it seriously comes up once a month [no thats not a non-s joke].
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:04 AM   #49
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I might have the best of both worlds. I've got an 01 base, that has been upgraded to a 3.2 motor. I've got the bigger motor, but the 5 speed transmission.

I bought the base and had an absolute blast, but always found myself upgrading something. Suspension, interior appointments, etc. Was forced to do the biggest upgrade when my 2.7 spun a rod bearing. At that point, the cost was the same for a 2.7 or 3.2, so I opted for the additional horses and additional torque of the 'S". Couldn't be happier with that decision, granted, I would not have switched if I didn't have to, as I didn't miss what I hadn't experienced, but now that I have the bigger motor, I wish I had it from day one. The car has a lot more torque from 3,000 - 5,500 RPM or so, and that's the range I typically drive in so its suited better for me. I have not approached the top end speed of either the 2.7 or 3.2, so I can't comment on that aspect of it.

They are both brilliantly capable of putting a smile on your face, and both have limits higher than most people will be comfortable pushing, but in my experience, and I've had both engines, the 3.2 is more fun.

Good luck in your quest,

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Old 02-04-2008, 05:06 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mn box s
Just remember, its cute!
I have had way more men ask what kind of car it is because they think it looks cool than women who think it looks cute. Also, I always get men saying/yelling "Nice Porsche" as I'm driving around because they appreciate the car. Women never do that.

Sounds to me like you and/or your friends may be overly sensitive to this issue. Do your friends drive 4x4s with big tires?

Last edited by saaber; 02-04-2008 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:34 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saaber
I have had way more men ask what kind of car it is because they think it looks cool than women who think it looks cute. Also, I always get men saying/yelling "Nice Porsche" as I'm driving around because they appreciate the car. Women never do that.

Sounds to me like you and/or your friends may be overly sensitive to this issue. Do your friends drive 4x4s with big tires?
His friends drive ricers .
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:39 AM   #52
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I drive a base, and have never had any problems. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think you need to find some new friends if they wouldn't talk to you just because you bought a base, instead of an S.

In my experience, most of the guys I know drives trucks, but they have never bad mouthed my car because they all like sports cars. I just have to take them for one short drive in the base, and they want to trade in there truck for one. Then there a few guys with big 4x4's (like your friends, right?) who think there truck is way better than a sports car, and you just have to accelerate past them from a stoplight, to make them shut-up.

Honestly, most people don't even think twice about what car you are driving, and it shouldn't matter what other people think as long as you are happy.
I am happy with my car, and who cares what everyone else thinks. I am the one that has to drive it!
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:45 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques79
What's your point? And I bet a 1997 Protege with a better driver than you can pass you in a Boxster S. But does that mean that the Protege will be more fun to drive?

And what about Ferrari drivers. Why buy a Ferrari when a great driver in a Porsche can pass it on a tight track?



I'm tired of people saying that it's not worth getting the better car because X car can be faster on a race track with a superior driver. Duh...but that doesn't mean that you won't have more fun with the better car.

There's a big difference between the Boxster and the Boxster S. Unless you're trying to prove to people that you can be faster around a race track with a less powerful car, get the S if acceleration is important to you.
Jacque my points were

1) Do you really notice the 2-3ft stoppng advantage of the S on the street?
2) Do you notice the cooling advantage of a 3rd radiator when driving on the street?
3) Do you notice any benefit to a 5 vs 6spd on the street?
4) Perhaps the Ss TQ and HP can be noticed, and is noticiable on the track when you get to about 100mph, but does the average driver discern between a 5.2 vs a 5.9 second 0-60 run? I doubt it.

I didn't say it wasn't worth getting an S. I simply said to get the "newest and best" version one could afford.

If the original poster has no intention of driving the car on the racetrack, where in my experience the base boxster has way more potential than people give it credit for, then why buy an "S"? In the 1960s, Porsche sold 30,000 912s (essentially a 911 with a 4cyl) vs the approx 10,000 911s. In the 1970s, Porsche sold 120,000 914s vs about 50,000 911s... Porsche sold another 150,000 or so 944s compared to a much smaller 911 production. For some people, even if money is not an object, having the "fastest" or "best" Porsche out there is not a requirement.

And yes, even the Boxster S is a chick car
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:17 AM   #54
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They are both great cars. If you are jonesing for more power while driving a base model you will soon be jonesing for more power with the S. It never ends. It's not the car that feels weak. It's the driver.

What privileged lives we lead that so much energy is spent on which Porsche to buy while others around the world are facing genocide, famine, Aids, abject poverty, civil war etc. Be thankful for what we have.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:11 AM   #55
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IMO a much better question to ask that will potentially impact you every time you drive is not "S" or "no S", but glass or plastic rear window. It's one of the few issues that I wish I had researched better before buying my 2001.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:56 PM   #56
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Not as pissed as I thought. Yes I have friends that drive ricers and some of them I'd rather have than a GT2... seriously. Yes even the S is a chick car and thats why to really pull the full potential of both cars lies under modifying. That is what brings most of us here (omg just like the ricers) and, problems with the type. Its porsche and we dont see as much as a lot of auto forums. Yes, I love it when I see a lady driving a nice car. Do I notice the difference between 5/6-speed cars heck yeah but mostly when Im driving my 5-speed and try to go to sixth out of habit. I do agree arguing about Porsches is better than starving, and I try not to forget that. Well that was fun we should do it again in about a month.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:04 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil bastard
The Brakes are better but the Base's brakes are more than adequate for street and occaisional track driving, the 'S' brakes are pretty much overkill.

Boy I could not disagree more. Aside from tires, if there was only one area I could upgrade on a car it would be the brakes. The ability to brake a few feet sooner could be the difference between saying "PHEWW!!! THAT WAS CLOSE!" and a seriously bad day that can't be undone. I once read a report that said that 70% of car accidents would be avoided if a driver had just one extra second of reaction time or half a car length.

The other great investment in Pcar ownership would be to enter a few autocross events with your local Porsche Club. After a mere twelve laps on an autocross course you have become a 1000% better Porsche driver on the open road.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:10 AM   #58
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Today, I feel as if I have S brakes on my base boxster.

I put on new cross drilled rotors and pagid pads and replaced the 104k mile, 11 year old brake lines with stainless steel ones and bled the system with ATE blue and the car has never had better braking... and they're not even seated yet.

Mark, who has ceramic brakes on his 987S was impressed and he test drove it before I did...

Perfectlap, you're right. S brakes are bigger and do stop better. However, I'd love for you to drive my base boxster with new rotors and pads and SS brake lines and tell me how it compares. I am impressed.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:41 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour
Today, I feel as if I have S brakes on my base boxster.

I put on new cross drilled rotors and pagid pads and replaced the 104k mile, 11 year old brake lines with stainless steel ones and bled the system with ATE blue and the car has never had better braking... and they're not even seated yet.

Mark, who has ceramic brakes on his 987S was impressed and he test drove it before I did...

Perfectlap, you're right. S brakes are bigger and do stop better. However, I'd love for you to drive my base boxster with new rotors and pads and SS brake lines and tell me how it compares. I am impressed.
What they can do with pad material is pretty amazing. Dialing in initial bite, ultimate friction, heat resistance and dust reduction.

Ultimately, the S brakes' only real advantage is the increase in fade resistance because of the larger surface area. Otherwise, the braking of the two systems should be about comparable.

Last edited by blue2000s; 02-05-2008 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:46 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlap
Boy I could not disagree more. Aside from tires, if there was only one area I could upgrade on a car it would be the brakes. The ability to brake a few feet sooner could be the difference between saying "PHEWW!!! THAT WAS CLOSE!" and a seriously bad day that can't be undone. I once read a report that said that 70% of car accidents would be avoided if a driver had just one extra second of reaction time or half a car length.

The other great investment in Pcar ownership would be to enter a few autocross events with your local Porsche Club. After a mere twelve laps on an autocross course you have become a 1000% better Porsche driver on the open road.
Taking your arguement to it's logical conclusion, why should anyone be even satisfied with the big Brembo 'S' brakes? Shouldn't everyone be upgrading to the PCCB ceramics for $13k? And even then, they could just as well come up that one foot short in an emergency.

So it really becomes a cost/benefit arguement, how much improvement per $ spent. To me, given the cost of the upgrade ($6k), it is not a good C/B. That is, unless you track the car, or need to make up for a feeling of inadequate brakes (which really isn't the case). I'm not saying you can't do the upgrade, if that's your thing, go for it. You can feel better, or think it's cooler, and that's OK, I'm just saying that the performance gain doesn't justify it.

But, even putting the big Brembos on a base model won't duplicate the stopping distances of the 'S' simply because to further improve brake response for the 'S' model, Porsche’s development engineers increased the transmission ratio of the brake servo by 18%, helping to apply the brakes in a shorter time and in the process reducing pedal forces. So, unless you also swap the vacuum booster, you only gain a couple feet at best on a converted Base model.

The base Boxster brakes have an average stopping distance of 119ft. vs the 'S' model's avg. of 112ft., vs the overall avg. stopping distance of all cars at an est. 185ft.. (source: http://www.jmu.edu/safetyplan/vehicle/generaldriver/stoppingdistance.shtml ) . And this avg. assumes that the car is unloaded (except for the driver), has brakes in good condition, on dry, hard, approximately level stretches of highway free from loose material, in other words ideal conditions. Anything less, and the stopping distance increases. So, there are many times when (given differing circumstances) the Base car will outperform an 'S'.

So it is not at all inaccurate to classify the Base model's brakes as adequate, in fact, you can make the arguement, given that they're stopping distance is that of an average car, that they are really more than adequate. The main advantage to the big Brembos is on the track, where repeated application of the brakes results in less fade than the single monoblocks of the Base.

You are correct that reaction time is critical to achieving the shortest stopping distance. Given an average car length of 15 ft., with either the Base or the 'S', you need to be on the brakes (@60mph) 7+ car lengths (7.4 for the 'S' vs 7.9 for the Base) before the car in front of you to assure you're not going to collide. But, you also need to factor your reaction time to this. At 60mph, your car is traveling at 88 ft./sec. With a reaction time of .75 sec. (considered avg.) you've added another 4+ car lengths (66') to the equation.

All the upgrades in the world won't improve this reaction time. Rather than spend $6k on an upgrade, most owners would be better served in improving their reaction times. If you spent 5 min./day on a reaction tester like this one for example: (http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php ), you'd most likely gain much shorter stopping times than simply swapping the hardware.


Last edited by Lil bastard; 02-05-2008 at 07:42 PM.
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