Boxster Killer?

[No_Name]

Originally Posted by Porschekid

mid-engine?

Yes, mid-engine. I knew someone would bite. I'll give you a chance to redeem youself if you can explain why that is.

[Porschekid]

Originally Posted by No_Name

Yes, mid-engine. I knew someone would bite. I'll give you a chance to redeem youself if you can explain why that is.

You call it mid-engine because the engine is behind the axle. Everyone else calls it front engine because it is front engine. Every review and write-up of the car I have read describes it as front engine rear wheel drive.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=33&article_id=7579

[RandallNeighbour]

According to the photo, the engine is fully behind the front wheels. So on a technicality, it's a mid engine automobile. Just not where we Boxster owners think it belongs.

Bet it doesn't take the twisties as well as a boxster either.

[No_Name]

I know what other people call it, but would you agree with it? S2000 is as much an FR as the Boxster is an RR. What distinguishes them from either spectrum is the fact that both cars’ engine weight is kept between the F/R axles - thus mid-engine - and its advantage is just as equivalent for both cars. You’ll find the more studious car magazines (Car, EVO, etc.) do cknowledge that the S2000 does have a MR layout but stuck with the FR moniker.

Fwiw, S2000 actually has slightly better weight distribution (51/49) than Boxster. So, RandallNeighbour, your bet has just a good a chance on a Russian Roulette.
Then again, according to SCCA “parking lot” racing…

[No_Name]

OK. So I am a newbie to rear-mid-engine car. Educate me if you will. What makes RMR decisively superior to FMR in handling regardless of everything else such as weight? It has less drive train loss, this I understand and appreciate. Please refrain from “only real midengined configuration that matters is when the engine is behind the driver” type of general statement, b/c frankly it is not convincing. I understand "geek talk" better than I can understand hyperbole.

Thanks!

[MLegere]

Guy's and Gal's,

I will be 47 Yr's old this year;and have driven my fare share of sports cars, SUV'S and trucks. When I went looking for a better sports car (last car 04 BMW MCS)
I drove alot of cars Vetts, Mustang's, S2000, a very nice but some what older NSX; I think you get my my meaning. If bang for the buck is what your about all of the above cars have it. Drive a Porsche at 100 MPH aswell as the other car's and you well soon come to understand that the Boxster just felt so much more at home then any other car I have driven. In the used car market the Boxster is IMOH the best value for the money.

All the other cars I have driven over the Yr's have never come close to the kinda of feedback it translates back to the driver. Live long and prosper!!!!!

Mike

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by No_Name

Yes, mid-engine. I knew someone would bite. I'll give you a chance to redeem youself if you can explain why that is.

wait a minute the S2000 is a MR now? I guess allot of front engine cars will have to be re-examined to see if the engine is actually behind the the shock mounts!

The S2000 was on my short list until I watched top gear's ratings of the best sports cars in the world. Tiff Needell in that Silver Boxster sold me on mid engine.

[kajita]

does that mean my old 350z was mid engine??? clearly with engine past the front struts with 51/49 ratio?
come on now No Name, give me a break....
whats the big deal, front engines arent that bad.... just accept it, s2k is a great car. its just not a boxster, no matter what it can do.

[No_Name]

Originally Posted by kajita

does that mean my old 350z was mid engine??? clearly with engine past the front struts with 51/49 ratio?
come on now No Name, give me a break....
whats the big deal, front engines arent that bad.... just accept it, s2k is a great car. its just not a boxster, no matter what it can do.

You read my mind about the Z. (read my post above) Though I don't think the 300ZX was. The ealier 280Z are more probable, and you remember the rave reviews it had. RX-7 (and 8?) might be another - it's handling is world class in its own right.

I wasn't defensive about it. I stated the S2000 has a mid-engine layout as a fact that it is. Then someone wanted to "call me out."

[No_Name]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

wait a minute the S2000 is a MR now? I guess allot of front engine cars will have to be re-examined to see if the engine is actually behind the the shock mounts!

The S2000 was on my short list until I watched top gear's ratings of the best sports cars in the world. Tiff Needell in that Silver Boxster sold me on mid engine.

Go head, see how many you can find. If you can find 3 or more in the last 20 years, that would be a hell of an achievement. I can't think of any except maybe the early Nissan/Datsun Z models.

You made your purchase decision based on a car video review?!

Nonetheless, mid-engine is indeed :thumbup:

[Lux]

No_name,

Are you on crack? The S2K has better balance than the Boxster? The Boxster has a 44/56 ratio. How exactly is the S2K better balanced? Maybe while it's sitting still but that's about it. Please explain...and I'd love to hear this.

In the meantime, let's go thru some physics and let's have you refute these claims I'm making:

1. Boxster has a lower polar moment of inertia due to the motor's c/g being closer to the driver. Lower moi makes the car pivot easier (e.g. slalom). All this relative to the S2K. True or false. Explain.

2. Boxster's 44/56 ratio is superior to S2K.
2a. During acceleration, the weight is transferred more on the rear wheels.
2b. During braking, the heavier rear allows the rear brakes to be more efficient.
True or false. Explain.

So you think my comments make you go hmmm? I think you better check yourself.

BTW, short of working for Honda, what makes you so sure that there will be '06 and '07 model S2K's? As far as I'm concerned, your "rumor" of there being cars is just as valid as other rumors of the S2K going into extinction.

PS:
My comment of "the only midengine that matters has to be behind the driver" is "not convincing" to you? Just because you refuse to be educated. You come in here spouting off about how great the S2K is and now about how it's better balanced. If you wanted to learn, you should have just asked why m/r is better than f/r.

Meanwhile, you haven't provided any facts to back up your claim. Feel free to go into "geek talk" as you put it. I'm a mechanical engineer. Bring it.

Again, refute my points. Otherwise, cut the ****************.


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[No_Name]

Great points. Certainly lot more productive than hyperbole made earlier. I'd be sure to find time to resond tonight. Thanks

[No_Name]

OK. I see my posts are being butchered and put in to wrong context. If I may, I like to recap what I’ve posted in cliff notes. You can go back to verify if you like.

QporscheQ: “…Honda and Nissan sales will be in the millions. So does it really surprise you that there is a 10:1 S2K to Boxster ratio at SCCA? Your Boxster has a lot more Porsche overhead money in it then some guy's Honda or Nissan… One of the things that I really like about my Boxster is that in terms of the automotive world there really aren’t all that many of them (or us owners). I don’t want a car that everybody else has..."

What he said there is just wrong, so I made the below response: “Wait a minute. There are between 8 - 9,000 S2K's for US in each production year. Boxster, began production in '97, outnumbers the S2K on the road. If it is exclusivity that you seek, you bought the wrong car. Despite that, the number of S2K's in my local auto-x and SCDA track events far outnumbers the 911's and Boxsters combine, though not quite as drastic as the 10:1 ratio aforementioned for the SCCA. I'll leave it to you to figure out why that is.

I also said this: “As for overhead, S2K is the only other RWD car in the company and it shares zero parts w/ its siblings. Everything from its x-bone frame to its mid-engine layout to its interior is designed from scratch... with great success. They were also built - hand-assemble, I might add - in a Japanese plant dedicated to only the S2K and NSX. So they are not exactly saving much money from labor or shipping either.” This was in light of (overhead) cost, not proclaiming S2K’s mid-engine layout is equal to better than Boxster’s.


Lexuspilot: “When someone asks what kind of car I drive, I say "Porsche"....that's it.
Who wants to say "Honda, but it's a S2000, know what that is? It doesn't share components with other hondas, and it outnumbers the other cars at my SCCA"

My response: “That's OK b/c not everyone needs to be a "brand-whore." You see, some people enjoy a car for what it truly is, not how it reflects upon them. Those are the people that I'd like be associated with and be friends with. Sadly, your notion typifies many sports car owners nowadays.” I didn’t “get all high and mighty calling people brand whores.” It was a direct response to Lexuspilot alone, to say that not everyone cares about brand name as much as he does.


Lux: “And seeing more S2K's at the autocross? BFD. Maybe more Boxster owners prefer the track to driving around in parking lots. Here's the bottom line...the S2K is being discontinued even with a modest price of $30K.

I promptly clarified “SCDA events are road course track events. They run on NHIS, LimeRock, and Watkins Glen.” I still see more S2K’s there than 911 and Boxsters combine. Then you started the “discontinued” talk, based on rumors, to suggest that S2K “don’t sell well.” I said, “There probably won’t be a 2nd gen. S2000. Even if there was, no one would know about it b/c Honda keep info tightly sealed. I’ll bet you dinner though that there will an MY06, and then I’ll bet you dinner again there will be an MY07 S2000.”


Lux: “BTW, short of working for Honda, what makes you so sure that there will be '06 and '07 model S2K's? As far as I'm concerned, your "rumor" of there being cars is just as valid as other rumors of the S2K going into extinction.”

My response: Even most people who work for Honda are kept in the dark about future model plans. My assumption is based on this: Honda just moved MY05 S2000’s production to a different plant to make room for the new RL. From a financial standpoint, I don’t see them move a production infrastructure hundreds of miles just to extend its life for one more year, esp. one that builds less 15,000 units world-wide. I am still willing to bet dinner on it.


Lux: “Porsche is a boutique car maker. They deal with low volumes by having higher prices. An S2K that only sells in the 20K volume range at $30K is a failure for a manufacturer like Honda.”

False presumption, to which I replied, “the plan for S2000 was 5,000 units/year for US. It ballooned to what it is (8-9k/yr) due to stronger demand than expected. I can’t say Honda is disappointed with its success.” You can look that up.

All through out, I was correcting misconceptions about the S2K. I did not say one thing to discredit the Boxster itself. But I get the impression that everyone thinks I am bashing it. I have no incentive to do so, as I have only 2 more months in the S2000 before it will be retired in favor of the 987 BS.


Lux, I appreciate you found the time to list the advantages of rear-mid-engine car. I do owe you a constructive response for further discussion in return. Let me gather my research and respond to you tomorrow night as time has run out on me this evening.

[Lux]

No_name,

I like how you recapped everything and ignored the main issue here. Classic troll moves. You're bashing owners and Boxsters on a Boxster enthusiast site as per your quotes below (if I may do a little recapping myself):

1. That's OK b/c not everyone needs to be a "brand-whore." <--- That's insulting a member.

2. I can tell you one thing though: all S2K drivers can drive a stick; no bimbo-blonde, trophy-wife, blvd-cruisers there. <--- Again, how is this not bashing Boxsters and owners? Ever think there might be some tiptronic owners on this site?

I don't know why you're even buying a Boxster with all of your comments...unless you're just trolling. You should just go find that '06 S2K and save yourself from being the only Porsche at the track.


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