HP, how much can a LIL 2.5L take? How do they Blow?

[pk2]

Originally Posted by JAAY

...If you do the water injection on it there will be no issues with heat at all. It is very reliable and safe to run more boost. As a matter of fact the damn thing runs too rich anyway. ....

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JAAY,

Glad I found you & Have fun with the 3.4. Hate to pester you, but you’re the first person I’ve heard of that has messed with this sort thing in the same way I’ve been planning to.

I’d come to the conclusion on my own that H20/methanol would do the trick nicely and then some, but I’d not heard of anyone doing it. Only lot’s of horror stories of catastrophic blow-ups, (likely due to detonation).

I was planning to “pulley” just up to 6 PSI, a little nervous though with all the urban lore. Thus this thread. Did you have it on good advice that a 7lb boost wouldn’t hurt you with the h2o/meth injection (or was it an educated/extrapolated conclusion)? What sort of WI system did you opt for; a simple progressive stage 2 type? or a Stage 2 with MAF input (or similar feedback)?

And finally, were you concerned at all with stress on any of the internals? I know it will have a wear out faster, but as long as it doesn’t go boom I’m alright with it.

Thanx a ton, PK

BTW, Are you doing anything to your 3.4 or are you leaving it more or less stock.

[JAAY]

I never did the kit on the boxster. On my eclipse I have a boost activated kit on it with a 50/50 mix of water and alcohol. The 3.4is only getting headers and exhaust of what I already have and a sport clutch. I am hoping to get a motor in January. I may put a 6 speed in it too

[David N.]

BTW guys, Willow is nice but remember, yer driving a BOXSTER! Leave the fast track for the rocket cars and try out Buttonwillow for some real corner-country

-David

[Gary in BR]

I am only running 6 injectors.

With the supercharger and the turbo the ecu was reprogrammed. GIAC did the sc program and Turbowerx writes his own programs. So to answer the question I am not running an AIC.

From my memory FVD was selling different cams for the 2.5 I do not know if they are still available.

I am sure as the priced of 2.5 Boxsters drop the tuner market will get more involved, by this I look at history. I have had my car almost 7 years and when I first got going desnorking and a cold air intake was it, then the exhaust systems came on the market. Now look at muffler and headers, how many combinations are there??

The 1st generation of superchagers and turbos where very expensive and an engine swap was 20-30k. Now it seems you can have your choice for around 10k.

I will imagine the few of us on this board working on more power for our cars are not the only ones doing this. Within a few years there will be more mods for our cars and more power.

I for one would love to see more power out of my 2.5 so I will continue working toward that goal.

PK,
I believe the IA supercharger runs 4.5 psi and I know I am running 6psi with the turbo. If you pulley up to 6 with the sc I would look into doing an intercooler of some sorts. I am basing this on the IA not having an intercooler and they stopped at 4.5 the turbo is running 6 and is cooled.

I know you did some intercooler research, what have you decided to do? I assume the water/meth injection??

At one time you where wanting me to measure my intercooler, do you still need those numbers??

[JAAY]

Lets just fix the power issue with a 125shot of nitrouse and pray everytime you squeeze. Cost would be under five hundred and fast install with real results

[pk2]

Originally Posted by JAAY

Lets just fix the power issue with a 125shot of nitrouse and pray everytime you squeeze. Cost would be under five hundred and fast install with real results

Honest,

I like the Idea of a seamless power on demand. Living in a mass sprawling metropolis, you got get your jollies when & where you find them. A surprise lack freeway traffic, an empty sweeper of an off ramp, forgotten old side streets. or some semi protected hilly twistys.

It would seem a tank of gas will use about a gallon of H2O/meth. Funny thing, and give me your opinion: I’ve “heard tell” of people happily using windshield washer fluid for there WI. I presume it’s because it’s a nice blend of alcohol and H2O. I haven’t looked into how clean the water is or its percentage in the mix and what else might be in there.

Regards, Peter

[pk2]

Originally Posted by Gary in BR

I am only running 6 injectors.

With the supercharger and the turbo the ecu was reprogrammed. GIAC did the sc program and Turbowerx writes his own programs. So to answer the question I am not running an AIC....I am sure as the priced of 2.5 Boxsters drop the tuner market will get more involved, ... Within a few years there will be more mods for our cars and more power.

I for one would love to see more power out of my 2.5 so I will continue working toward that goal.

PK,
I believe the IA supercharger runs 4.5 psi and I know I am running 6psi with the turbo. If you pulley up to 6 with the sc I would look into doing an intercooler ...
I know you did some intercooler research, what have you decided to do? I assume the water/meth injection??

At one time you where wanting me to measure my intercooler, do you still need those numbers??

Gary,

Funny I had the same thoughts regarding ageing Boxster prices and the availability of aftermarket parts. It’ll be a blessing and a curse. First time I see a primer grey Boxster, I’ll hang mine up.

I kinda figured your setup was a holistic approach. A reprogrammed ECU, fine tuned with all pertinent components in place is pretty ideal. But, to your question about remapping the ECU, if the mods you make are significant, without having the ECU remapped with your mods in place, you might not be getting all you can.

As to the intercooler, if your rolling around down there, I’d be curios about its size and that of the inlets, I haven’t ruled it out completely. WI (water/alcohol injection) just seems to be better suited for my setup. (That’s the short answer).


The long: The problem is the length/volume of air between the blower and the cylinders. To plumb an IC (intercooler) in on my setup would mean a lot more plumbing plus the intercooler volume = a lot more volume of air/fuel to compress, this takes time… read lag. Since my torque is quite low-end (opposite that of a single turbo), and this where the lag would be most pronounced, it could be pretty screwy with an IC, compressed torue curve.

With WI, I don’t increase the volume of air/fuel to compress at all. It also doesn’t matter where I put the hardware; just need a hole into engine compartment for a water line and a couple of wires. As best I can tell, it every bit as effective as an IC, maybe even better.

The trade off is that mine would be an active system needing to be fed, nurtured and maintained and yours is completely passive. The extra plumbing/volume in you IC system is probably negated because your turbo’s might well be a “2 Stage” deal; one works the low-end & when it fizzles, the other kicks in and works the top end (total speculation on my part, but I know they do it)

I’m with you, I’d like to tap all the “squirt” out of this “little 2.5” I can. My sc is supposed to be at maxed out 4.5.psi to. I think that must be the cut off before detonation sets in and when you need to start some IC or the like.

Anyway, that was breathy..

Regards, PK

P.S. If that’s all confusing (and it probably is), think of it this way, what would it take you to blow a little beer bottle up to 2 psi, not much. Now blow a 5 gallon jug up to 2 psi…. lungs = blower, bottles =air fuel volume, (tubes, IC, etc.)

[Gary in BR]

Originally Posted by pk2

As to the intercooler, if your rolling around down there, I’d be curios about its size and that of the inlets, I haven’t ruled it out completely. WI (water/alcohol injection) just seems to be better suited for my setup. (That’s the short answer).



P.S. If that’s all confusing (and it probably is), think of it this way, what would it take you to blow a little beer bottle up to 2 psi, not much. Now blow a 5 gallon jug up to 2 psi…. lungs = blower, bottles =air fuel volume, (tubes, IC, etc.)

I will be under there in the next few days. Measuring for my bottom brace.

Your PS explanation is brilliant, makes everything nice and easy.


I think someone needs to try the nitrous Jaay brought into this conversation. Now that would be an interesting combo. I would hate to be mid corner and the nitrous kicks in...


Speaking of Primer Grey Boxsters.....no I'm kidding...I hang out with a few Honda Acura tuning guys and most of them would not want to mod a Boxster because all of the parts are 5 - 10 times more expensive and they are unable to pull the high horsepower numbers as easily.

Have a safe new years.

[JAAY]

just got home from work. Happy new year. 6speeds, I would love more info on whoever you know that has them. As for the 3.6 I do belief that there is a lot involved with that swap and lot more cash also. I nkow we are all made of money and bought boxster because the gt2 is just a girls car or a cgt is just too slow LOL. Just joking, price is a factor to me. Time for bed the lady is calling, happy day 1 of 2008

[Gary in BR]

PK,


Read this thread, there is a link to a guy who did meth/water on his Porsche.

Post what ever info you find.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112475

[pk2]

Originally Posted by Gary in BR

IYour PS explanation is brilliant, makes everything nice and easy.


I think someone needs to try the nitrous... I would hate to be mid corner and the nitrous kicks in...


Speaking of Primer Grey Boxsters.....no I'm kidding...I... parts are 5 - 10 times more expensive and they are unable to pull the high horsepower numbers as easily.

Have a safe new years.

Gary,

Funny my little Postscript upstaged the preceding rambling paragraphs. As to nitrous, I’m personally more interested in power on demand as opposed to temporary power…seems like nitrous is really just good for a drag or 2.

True about mod prices for p=cars, thinking about volume+affordability of Boxsters might sometime justfy reasonably priced aftermarket stuff. But that never happen with my old 928…don’t know where they all went.

WI!

I stuck a toe in the WI waters today and it turned into a bit of a plunge. I bought a (standard issue) Sureflow 150/100 PSI meth/h20 pump on the cheap off ebay, great. So Then going back forth with the guy a bit, he winds up throwing in a bunch of bits and bobs that add up to about 85% of what I need for a complete a basic H2O/meth set up. (I’ve got another 50%, needed to make it work as good as any, (just need some brain power to make it work, a hack but one that’s been done)

So your turbo(s) is running 7 PSI with an intercooler. So if you can do that, I should to, with H20/meth cooling. That’s if I can “pulley” it up without over-revving the Super.

So, I’m committed. Round up a few more parts, pick a few more brains and I think I’m on my way to the Holy Grail, 280 +.

Regards PK

Ps, how did you extrapolate hp from your documented whp? Is there a rule off thumb for conversion? Yours is supposed to 290 hp @ 7 psi and mine is supposed to be 270-280 @ 4.5 psi. Must be a rule of thumb for that to; claims/actual=…)

[Gary in BR]

If I said I am running 7psi I made a mistake its only 6psi.
The last two days with the weather here so cold (its around 30!!) I have seen and felt 6.5psi. and 7 once or twice.


I think there is a rule of thumb for the whp to crank conversion. I think its 1.14 times the dyno number but I am not sure at all.

Here is how I did it:
Porsche claims 201 at the crank my base line dyno showed 164

164 times 1.22 is about 201.

226 times 1.22 is 275 crank.

I will assume right off the bat someone has a better way of finding these numbers but this is the "logical" way to me.

[pk2]

Originally Posted by JAAY

I never did the kit on the boxster. On my eclipse I have a boost activated kit on it with a 50/50 mix of water and alcohol. The 3.4is only getting headers and exhaust of what I already have and a sport clutch. I am hoping to get a motor in January. I may put a 6 speed in it too

Hey Jaay

From what someone posted here, the 3.4 has plenty of kick. But why not a 3.6?

I have a contact somewhere who rebuilds 6 speed that are mate-able to a 2.5 if your interested, it sounded like they could one fit to anything you want.

Regards, Peter