Porsche Plans to buy out VW!

[porsche986spyder]

Found this article today...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a9Lo8OSwVZhw&refer=home

[blinkwatt]

Stuttgart, Germany-based Porsche first bought a stake in Volkswagen two years ago, saying it wanted to protect a strategic partnership between the two carmakers. Since 2002, Volkswagen has built the body of Porsche's Cayenne sport-utility vehicle, which shares a platform with the VW Touareg and the Audi Q7.

Volkswagen, now Porsche's largest supplier, will also build the body of the Panamera sports car, which goes on sale in 2009.

Why does Porsche insist on having someone else build their cars? I thought they were called PORSCHES not VOLKSCHE.

[racer_d]

Originally Posted by blinkwatt

Stuttgart, Germany-based Porsche first bought a stake in Volkswagen two years ago, saying it wanted to protect a strategic partnership between the two carmakers. Since 2002, Volkswagen has built the body of Porsche's Cayenne sport-utility vehicle, which shares a platform with the VW Touareg and the Audi Q7.

Volkswagen, now Porsche's largest supplier, will also build the body of the Panamera sports car, which goes on sale in 2009.

Why does Porsche insist on having someone else build their cars? I thought they were called PORSCHES not VOLKSCHE.

If not, the boxster would cost $100K and a Carrera closer to $150K. Porsche learned wisely in the 1990s how to protect itself. Bet you didn't know BMW supplied sheetmetal to porsche in the 1990s did you? The German autoworld is a bit ancestuous (sp?) when you have VW Group, Diamler-Benz, BMW and Porsche all in country the size of Oregon.

The other advantage in the ever "greening" of the Euro auto insdustry is it allows Porsche to use credits banked by 80mpg VW Lupos, for instance. Plus the ownership of VW contains the poison pill that prevents takeover from some other company/entity.

[RandallNeighbour]

I wouldn't call one German car maker using another's sheet metal incestuous.

Here's what I learned about Germans:

In Germany, there are two world-class printing press manufacturers that are fierce competitors. Mann-Roland and Heidelberg.

I can't remember which company had the problem, but one or the other had nearly 60% of their workforce out of the factory and flat on their backs with the flu or a stomach virus or something like that.

The fierce competitor shut down their factories two hours early the next few days because their workers wanted to help another German company from looking bad and losing too much money. One company's workers drove an hour or two away and worked a second shift for days on end ... for the competition.

All this to say, the German brand and keeping Germany running like a well-oiled machine is more important that castle-building one's personal empire. It's all about the kingdom, not the castle to a German.

So, bringing this little story back to the thread topic, I think these German auto makers probably care more about the good of the nation over thinking about their own company running another German auto manufacturer out of business.

[If I'm not mistaken, this happened with GM or Ford workers with Chrysler years ago, didn't it?]

On a completely different note, the airline industry is creating alliances and there will probably be only 4 or 5 airlines in 20 years. The same thing will happen with automakers too I think. It's just much easier to make dependable cars on a large scale.

Thoughts? Comments? Objections?

[Perfectlap]

makes sense...have VW make the cheap stuff, sheet metal, glass, plastic, ac, etc. and then Porsche puts in the expensive goodies (engines, wheels, brakes).

p.s.
Panamera looks lame, like another big Lexus sedan. I was hoping for a car to go head to head with the Maseratis

[blinkwatt]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

makes sense...have VW make the cheap stuff, sheet metal, glass, plastic, ac, etc. and then Porsche puts in the expensive goodies (engines, wheels, brakes).

Isn't BBS already supplying wheels to both?

[djomlas]

they about making money, so y not?
as long as we dont end up w vw steering wheels...

we already share the same climate controls from the inside

[John Y]

If you've seen VW flat-bottomed rims. like in my GTI, I don't think you'd mind. Thicker too, and better leather than a stock Boxster steering wheel.

And this deal should mean that instead of lagging years behind VW, Audi and others, it will be much easier for Porsche to cost-effectively acquire/develop technologies like FSI, DSG, etc (still conspicuously missing from our cars) and maybe have the financial resources to develop all new models and new model ranges more quickly, as was pointed out below. Sounds like a win-win to me, hopefully for VW too.

VW builds low-priced cars for reasons that I will assume are obvious; it doesn't mean they are 'cheap' in respect of the technology used.

Other than the two examples above which put the VW family of brands at the head of the class in those important respects, consider some of the similarities under the skin - Engine management system - pretty critical to the car's performance and character, right? Motronic 7.8 in both my VW and my Box.

[RandallNeighbour]

FSI? DSG?

Spell it out for this old man, please. What cool features am I NOT dreaming about that I should be dreaming about owning in future automobiles?

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

FSI? DSG?

Spell it out for this old man, please. What cool features am I NOT dreaming about that I should be dreaming about owning in future automobiles?

Randall, I Googled it and got Florida Space Institute and Dubai School of Government.

[racer_d]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

Randall, I Googled it and got Florida Space Institute and Dubai School of Government.

FSI = Direct fuel injection - controlled fuel metering into each cylinder for more efficient burn and more hp. It is coming to Porsches in 2008 iirc

DSG = Dual Sequential Gearbox - ie a clutchless manual transmission. Porsches Tiptronic is an automatic with manual control. DSG is a true Manual box, without a clutch pedal, controlled with electronics.

[tkn]

Maybe now they can discontinue that horrible Cayenne, dump the Panamera, and get back to being a niche sportscar manufacturer...

But probably not...

[timothy]

Or maybe something diabolical! Porsche Rabbit anyone?

But seriously, why is VW at the forefront of these developments and not Porsche? Is P-dog too busy expanding their product line and therefore relegated to playing catch-up on FSI, DSG, etc? Perhaps it was their plan all along to acquire instead of develop.

Originally Posted by racer_d

FSI = Direct fuel injection - controlled fuel metering into each cylinder for more efficient burn and more hp. It is coming to Porsches in 2008 iirc

This should be called DFI...not FSI.

[John Y]

Originally Posted by timothy

Or maybe something diabolical! Porsche Rabbit anyone?

But seriously, why is VW at the forefront of these developments and not Porsche? Is P-dog too busy expanding their product line and therefore relegated to playing catch-up on FSI, DSG, etc? Perhaps it was their plan all along to acquire instead of develop.

Because a company like VW has the people, the resources, and investment capital to develop these technologies faster, that smaller outfits usually don't.

[John Y]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

This should be called DFI...not FSI.

In Porsche's case, there is an acronym for it that starts with a 'D' - I don't remember the other two letters, though...I think it IS DFI.

VW and Audi refer to theirs as FSI, because it stood originally for "Fuel Stratified Injection" - describing what would happen to the fuel charge in the combustion chamber in an ultra-efficient burn mode that allowed for maximum fuel economy. It's typicall labeled as "Fuel Straight Injection" now, referring to the fact that the charge is sent straight (direct) into the combustion chamber, not introduced at the base of the intake manifold just above the intake valves, like in a non direct injection car. I don't know if current-production VW/Audi cars with FSI still have the lean-burn mode or not.

[Brucelee]

Piech is a meglamaniac and has been after VW for some time now.

He made a pledge several years back that Porsche would NEVER seek to own VW and that he would resign from the VW board some time ago.

Didn't keep those pledges.

Hmmm.

[racer_d]

In a recent Autoweek, FERRARI was quoted as looking into the AUDI FSI system as it currently is the superior system. So, it wasn't just Porsche who missed out. Considering how much cost the development of some of these programs carry, it clearly is more economical to wait for someone to perfect the system and copy it, than to create it yourself.

Porsche had a forerunner to DSG called PDK. It was used in the 962 race cars (on a prototype level, not aware of any 962's actually running such a system.) This allowed for a clutchless manual. In the end, it was deemed too expensive to adapt to road car production (ie 1990s Porsche - which was nearly bankrupt).

[fatmike]

And, maybe the end up some obvious things like bluetooth & a stereo that works too?