I think my engine just took a #$%!!

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by prOk

People honestly want porsche to warranty or throw a discount on a failure of a 10 year old engine? My god. The car itself is only worth 15k or so.

When the 2nd hand market is afraid of buying your out of warranty Porsche, it affects/lowers the resale value. Lower residual values tend to scare off NEW buyers who don't feel like dealing with selling a car that everyone is scared of.
Not all new car buyers trade in their cars, some actually hate throwing away money.
A HIGHLY profitable company has it in their interest to throw out some good will. Promoting a new image of Porsche being a reliable 'exotic' car company that stands by their modern(liquid cooled) line of cars can only help the bottom line.
These stories of people buying their modern cars and getting the shaft does them no good. But when you consider the average income of a new Porsche buyer is well into the six figures, Porsche thinks it can put all their eggs in this high net worth basket and tell those in lower economies to have a nice day and don't let the service department door hit you in the ass on the way out. Porsche made that mistake back in the 90's when they sold less than 1,000 Carreras in North America in one production year.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

When the 2nd hand market is afraid of buying your out of warranty Porsche, it affects/lowers the resale value. Lower residual values tend to scare off NEW buyers who don't feel like dealing with selling a car that everyone is scared of.
Not all new car buyers trade in their cars, some actually hate throwing away money.
A HIGHLY profitable company has it in their interest to throw out some good will. Promoting a new image of Porsche being a reliable 'exotic' car company that stands by their modern(liquid cooled) line of cars can only help the bottom line.
These stories of people buying their modern cars and getting the shaft does them no good. But when you consider the average income of a new Porsche buyer is well into the six figures, Porsche thinks it can put all their eggs in this high net worth basket and tell those in lower economies to have a nice day and don't let the service department door hit you in the ass on the way out. Porsche made that mistake back in the 90's when they sold less than 1,000 Carreras in North America in one production year.

I consider a car that is still selling for about 40% of it's original price after 11 years to hold it's value very well. I've got a '98 Mitsubishi that was $28k new, now it's worth about 17% of that. I see no evidence in the market that the RMS/IMS/ whatever else failures are effecting new or used Porsche sales or prices. I think the change from air to water cooling has effected used prices more than anything else by holding the air cooled cars above a normal depreciation rate.

[Perfectlap]

Yeah but I think that the average used car buyer will have allot more confidence buying a 10 year old Mitsubishi vs. a 10 year old Porsche.
That's a problem.
I personally know at least 10 guys, maybe more, have the money to buy an at least 4 year old Porsche but want nothing to do with replacing an engine or some other $5K+ repair. These cars simply don't inspire long term confidence in the 2nd hand market and dealers holding used Porches on the lot are sweating out "of warranty bullets" until there is a sale...They are very happy to see Porsches leave the lot ASAP. And let's not forget that Porsche now has the backing of 30% ownership of VW. They can afford to stand by their products.
p.s.
By the way, I think for every Mitsubishi that's lost a ton of residiual value there are example of cars like the S2000 that hold value extremely well. around here 7 year old S2000's with as much as 70K miles are still fetching $14K..not bad for a car that barely averaged 8K units in NA since 1999.

[tholyoak]

Sorry but I think this issue is completely overblown and people get all emotional because of the significant amount of money to fix the problem.

Yes the '99 cars had a problem, only those cars that have very low mileage will still be affected since if they were driven at all most affected cars blew their motors during the warranty period, including mine, since it typically happened before 30k miles.

The RMS issue, is not an issue in most cases, Porsche has never made an engine that didn't drip a little oil. Talk to any air cooled 911 owner. Replace the seal with the latest seal when you need to replace the clutch, no big deal. Again, my opinion is that this is more of a problem on infrequently used cars than ones that are actually regularly driven.

The intermediate shaft failures are pretty rare and Porsche has been pretty good at taking care of them even out of warranty but can you really expect them to honor an engine replacement on a 8-10 year old car? This is another reason I place no value on very low mileage cars as all the problems that would have normally come out during the first 1-2 years of ownership are lingering for the next unsuspecting buyer.

Look at Porsche's engine history, no engine was without trouble. Magnesium case 2.7s pulled their head studs, 3.0L had collapsed tensioner issues, blown CIS airbox issues, 3.2S had broken head stud issues and valve guide wear issues, 964s had valve guide issues, 993s have SAI and valve guide issues. I don't hear the aircooled guys whining about their engines being junk. These motors were >$30k if you wanted to replace one from Porsche, and rebuilds were not a cheap proposition. Now you can buy a 3.8X51 from Porsche for ~$12k including a core charge. Quite a deal.

The M96 engines are putting out close to 100hp/L, while getting very good mileage and very low emissions, in my opinion these are great motors. Yes their have been some hiccups along the way, but that is nothing new in Porsche engineering history. Again if the cars were driven, most of the issues would have sorted themselves out during the warranty period.

Just my $0.02.

Todd

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by tholyoak

The RMS issue, is not an issue in most cases, Porsche has never made an engine that didn't drip a little oil. Talk to any air cooled 911 owner. Replace the seal with the latest seal when you need to replace the clutch, no big deal.

There's another source of RMS failure beyond the seal itself being poorly made or fitting loosely or stretching due to heat and age, etc.

It's easy to assume that seal itself is bad and just needs replacement (Dealers often make this assumption when they replace a RMS under warranty). Porsche did make a bunch of crappy ones in the early years of the 986 and 996, but they still have RMS issues with the 997's and the 987's.

But that's not the entire nature of many RMS leaks by any means.

The shaft being out of round causes the RMS to wear out prematurely, stretching it and even tearing it in places. My MY97 had its engine replaced before I bought it... although I have no records, I wonder about this very thing as the cause for my engine replacement.

So, we have two problems surrounding the RMS issue. Crappy first, second, third, and even fourth generation rear main seals; and crappy manufacturing going on inside the engine which causes the RMS to fail.

Just thought I'd throw in this mix to add one more reason for RMS failure and how to attack the problem if you have more than one RMS failure in a relatively short time span.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by tholyoak

Sorry but I think this issue is completely overblown and people get all emotional because of the significant amount of money to fix the problem.

Yes the '99 cars had a problem, only those cars that have very low mileage will still be affected since if they were driven at all most affected cars blew their motors during the warranty period, including mine, since it typically happened before 30k miles.

The RMS issue, is not an issue in most cases, Porsche has never made an engine that didn't drip a little oil. Talk to any air cooled 911 owner. Replace the seal with the latest seal when you need to replace the clutch, no big deal. Again, my opinion is that this is more of a problem on infrequently used cars than ones that are actually regularly driven.

The intermediate shaft failures are pretty rare and Porsche has been pretty good at taking care of them even out of warranty but can you really expect them to honor an engine replacement on a 8-10 year old car? This is another reason I place no value on very low mileage cars as all the problems that would have normally come out during the first 1-2 years of ownership are lingering for the next unsuspecting buyer.

Look at Porsche's engine history, no engine was without trouble. Magnesium case 2.7s pulled their head studs, 3.0L had collapsed tensioner issues, blown CIS airbox issues, 3.2S had broken head stud issues and valve guide wear issues, 964s had valve guide issues, 993s have SAI and valve guide issues. I don't hear the aircooled guys whining about their engines being junk. These motors were >$30k if you wanted to replace one from Porsche, and rebuilds were not a cheap proposition. Now you can buy a 3.8X51 from Porsche for ~$12k including a core charge. Quite a deal.

The M96 engines are putting out close to 100hp/L, while getting very good mileage and very low emissions, in my opinion these are great motors. Yes their have been some hiccups along the way, but that is nothing new in Porsche engineering history. Again if the cars were driven, most of the issues would have sorted themselves out during the warranty period.

Just my $0.02.

Todd

This is basically an excuse-rest for Porsche. Our engines have alwasys leaked, so buck up and suck up?

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

These cars simply don't inspire long term confidence in the 2nd hand market and dealers holding used Porches on the lot are sweating out "of warranty bullets" until there is a sale...They are very happy to see Porsches leave the lot ASAP.

But this would effect resale prices if it were true and it doesn't appear that it has.