911 vs Boxster S

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NickCats

I was looking at the specs and wondering if the base 911 is considerably faster than the Boxster S and if so, why :

2007 911 Carrera
$73,500.00
0-60 in 4.8 sec ( manual )
325 hp / 273 ft-lb torque
3075 lbs curb weight

2007 Boxster S
$58,910.00
0-60 in 5.1 sec ( manual )
295 hp / 251 ft-lb torque
2987 lbs curb weight

This equates to the 911 having .1056 hp / lb and the Boxster S having .0987 hp / lb ( a difference of only .0069 hp / lb )

It the 911 worth the extra $15,000 strictly from a performance standpoint ?

Thoughts ?

Nick

Echoing what perfectlap said.... you are comparing a coupe to a convertible. Compare apples to apples and a boxster to a 911 cab. I scratch my head when people/magazines compare a coupe to a convertible especially when they don't have to. 911 coupe vs boxster S.....or boxster S vs covette coupe?? What's up with that? Now whats a 911 cab run these days?? 80 grand?? 0-60 time is what a 1/10 sec faster than a 3.4L boxster S? The reasons to buy a 911 are shrinking as we speak.

[racer_d]

Again.. from a "numbers" standpoint, the 911 isn't "worth" it... but cars like this should be bought on "emotion" and "desire" and there are still many folks who would answer the question by driving a 911.

While comparing apples to oranges, driving my 2000 Boxster at the track is "easy" .. but driving my 1978 911 was much more "rewarding".

[NickCats]

PL,

Regarding the Cayman S, all specs are the same as the Boxster S except price ( $59,100 ) and weight ( 2954 lbs ).

Adam, the reason I was using the Boxster S and 911 coupe is due to price. 911 cab puts you in the $80k price range, $25k more than the Boxster S.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys ( and also to cfos and flyadesk for the rant on specs ).

Nick

[hdpt73]

i'd buy a cayman over a 911. nicer curves, engine in the right place. but if i had the money i'd buy a 911 turbo over anything porsche makes.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NickCats

PL,

Regarding the Cayman S, all specs are the same as the Boxster S except price ( $59,100 ) and weight ( 2954 lbs ).

Adam, the reason I was using the Boxster S and 911 coupe is due to price. 911 cab puts you in the $80k price range, $25k more than the Boxster S.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys ( and also to cfos and flyadesk for the rant on specs ).

Nick

I know this is blasphemy to the porsche purists, but porsche needs to kill the 911 and let the boxster/cayman take it's spot. I know change is tough, but lets face it, the engine is in the wrong place and if they are truly a performance car company then they know what to do.

[David N.]

I don't mind them offering both. I just mind them limiting the Boxster's power to protect the supposed "relevance" of the 911. Why not tune all your cars to be the best they can be?

-David

[thomschoon]

Originally Posted by David N.

I don't mind them offering both. I just mind them limiting the Boxster's power to protect the supposed "relevance" of the 911. Why not tune all your cars to be the best they can be?

-David

it is all about price point, the 944 turbo was faster then most of the 911's and the 986 S is very close, but you cant insult the Carrera owners by having the entry level machine be faster, same reason there wasnt a coupe for so long. If you look at the Porsche company vision, they will be moving into more markets to capture more market share, but it will always be up scale not down as the margins are better. In the end the 911 is the model that keeps the company profitable year over year which is what the shareholders want.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by thomschoon

it is all about price point, the 944 turbo was faster then most of the 911's and the 986 S is very close, but you cant insult the Carrera owners by having the entry level machine be faster, same reason there wasnt a coupe for so long. If you look at the Porsche company vision, they will be moving into more markets to capture more market share, but it will always be up scale not down as the margins are better. In the end the 911 is the model that keeps the company profitable year over year which is what the shareholders want.

2 things, the 944 turbo was more expensive than the garden variety 911 of the same year, and Porsche almost went out of business in the eightys/ninetys, the Boxster was a key product that pulled them out of the toilet.

[JCL12]

Originally Posted by thomschoon

In the end the 911 is the model that keeps the company profitable year over year which is what the shareholders want.

Are you sure about this? The largest sales by volume is actually the Cayenne, but I certainly don't know what thier margins are per unit...I'd be interested to see a profit-by-model pareto of thier entire line. I'd assume all lines are in the black!

Also, let the 911 owners complain all they want about 986/7/944 bringing poor donkeys to Pcar, but what about an SUV? Not only filling the line with a "soccer mom" car, but its also the lowest MSRP thing they make.

[pteam]

Originally Posted by David N.

I don't mind them offering both. I just mind them limiting the Boxster's power to protect the supposed "relevance" of the 911. Why not tune all your cars to be the best they can be?

-David

Well if they made a boxster to 911 specs and engine then it would be 15grand more.

Also theyre never going to kill the 911, just forget that idea. lol

[djomlas]

Originally Posted by Adam

I know this is blasphemy to the porsche purists, but porsche needs to kill the 911 and let the boxster/cayman take it's spot. I know change is tough, but lets face it, the engine is in the wrong place and if they are truly a performance car company then they know what to do.

the engine's been in the wrong place forever, and they know it too, but there will never be the end of 911

[racer_d]

C'mon now.. to purists, Porsches are air cooled anyway

[iflyadesk]

Originally Posted by Adam

I know this is blasphemy to the porsche purists, but porsche needs to kill the 911 and let the boxster/cayman take it's spot. I know change is tough, but lets face it, the engine is in the wrong place and if they are truly a performance car company then they know what to do.

I don't know how many 911 guys you've hung out with, but I've had someone say to my face that the Boxster and the 944 were the biggest mistakes Porsche ever made because they brought cheap losers into the Porsche elite.

There is a lot of ego feeding that takes place in the upper half of Porsche's line. These guys almost prefer the cars to be more expensive because it makes them feel more exclusive. You will never lose that element. I for one am almost surprised that the Boxster is still around. Their profit margins are much lower, and it would elevate the prestige and exclusivity of the brand to keep our "mere middle class blood" out of the pure bread line.

This is also why Ferrari will never bring back the Dino.

Of course, I instructed a corporate group once that had a bunch of 911 guys. After a member smashed up his beauty real bad at the track, we discussed renting race cars. We got them all in spec miatas, and after the initial disgust of the thought of driving a mere miata, they could not shut up about how fun and fast those little cars were. This is how I feel about the Boxster. It is loads of fun, whereas the 911 is just fast.

[MartinJ]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/204171/ferrari_420_dino.html

[iflyadesk]

I recently read in a car magazine (I know that's ridiculously vague, but my memory escapes me at the moment) an interview with the CEO of Ferrari. He said under no uncertain terms that there would not be a Dino. The reason cited was keeping the prestige level of Ferrari high.

Now that doesn't mean he was telling the truth or that things won't change. I just wouldn't hold my breath.

[986Rick]

Originally Posted by MartinJ

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/204171/ferrari_420_dino.html

Call me silly, but it looks like the Ferrari guys have allot of lines off the Cayman on that thing.

BTW- totally agree about the fanboys vs car guys. It's all about the driver at the level most of us compete at. For example: I have a friend that regularly puts the beatdown on Corvette Z06's in his Turbocharged 96 Miata in the modified street class at local motocross events. Makes most eyes pop out. His car is hella scary fast. Dynos at something like 250HP @ the wheels.

on a cur guy topic--It's weird sometimes going from my old beater (stock miata), to the BoxS. In a way, I wish I had some attributes of my Miata on the BoxS...Most notably the tight, fast steering box. While everything else is faster on my p-car, going from my miata to it , from a steering standpoint, feels like going from a schitzophrenic mouse to a lathargic cow.

Hmmmn...I wonder if there are tuning mods for faster steering on a Box out there...

-R.

[meerzee]

Excellent post. It is entirely true when dealing with the 996/997 elite crew.
Remember my "Boxsters Suck" thread where my 11 year old nephew reminded me how my Boxster sucks. "Boxsters suck!" From an 11 year old. (my personal rant) --- I have always thought was funny and directly related to his dad's comments I am sure (GT3, Viper GTS, Lambo owner), so what do you expect right?

Well, amazingly I moved to a new subdvision in Mandeville with houses in
400-600k range and neighborhood kids actually had an entirely positive reaction. Heck, I even drove it to work across the causeway and got it above 4k (just to clean the carbon) LOL -- a few times....I think I briefly hit 110 while avoiding a "pacer convention" with a few drivers...it was a fun couple seconds anyhoo...

I don't thnk we will ever lose the "entry level image" when it comes to the purists, but I love my car for exactly what it is....a fun distraction and toy that just makes me smile each time I drive it...and that to me is truly priceless.....

Originally Posted by iflyadesk

I don't know how many 911 guys you've hung out with, but I've had someone say to my face that the Boxster and the 944 were the biggest mistakes Porsche ever made because they brought cheap losers into the Porsche elite.

There is a lot of ego feeding that takes place in the upper half of Porsche's line. These guys almost prefer the cars to be more expensive because it makes them feel more exclusive. You will never lose that element. I for one am almost surprised that the Boxster is still around. Their profit margins are much lower, and it would elevate the prestige and exclusivity of the brand to keep our "mere middle class blood" out of the pure bread line.

This is also why Ferrari will never bring back the Dino.

Of course, I instructed a corporate group once that had a bunch of 911 guys. After a member smashed up his beauty real bad at the track, we discussed renting race cars. We got them all in spec miatas, and after the initial disgust of the thought of driving a mere miata, they could not shut up about how fun and fast those little cars were. This is how I feel about the Boxster. It is loads of fun, whereas the 911 is just fast.