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Old 08-10-2007, 07:26 AM   #1
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Who would win?

On a closed track of course?

My boxster, stock except
DeSnorkeled
B&B exhaust

Or stock 2004 Infiniti G35 6spd man

In a 0-60 race,

Im pretty sure the G would win but by how much?

thanks
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Old 08-10-2007, 08:28 AM   #2
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Actually, there have been people who have dynoed the B&B, and found that it LOST power. I think the GHL muffler is one of the few aftermarket ones that actually give a bit of a power gain, and that the Factory PSE doesn't give you a gain or loss, but increases sound.


Posts from another board:

"Re: Does anyone like the B&B muffler sound level?

Alan,

I hate to add to the negativity about this exhaust, but I JUST went through this exact exercise with the latest TriFlo. Here is my findings:

1> It's nicely made overall, but it didn't really fit very well, riding along jammed against the little silver 'paint protector pad' that surrounds the exhaust cutout. Could melt, discolor and/or rattle in that area eventually.

2> I dynoed it and lost 4 HP across the ENTIRE rev range compared to stock - a result that is consistent with others that have done the same testing.

3> It sounds great everywhere BUT in the dreaded 2300-2800 RPM range. You must understand that resonation is a characteristic of the ENGINE, not the exhaust. But it IS up to the exhaust to 'muffle' that noise, and only the stock exhaust or stock-based aftermarket exhausts seem to be engineered to accomplish this without loss of power. I know this because I autocross my car WITHOUT an exhaust at all, and though it is quite driveable that way (surprisingly so), it resonates quite badly in the exact same RPM range as above.

So, if its power, a nice sound and NO resonance that your after, then I think that you should probably do as Robert (Agoura Hills, CA) says: get a stock-based aftermarket exhaust or just stay with the stock muffler and spend your money on other areas of improvement like the intake."

And more...

"I was amazed how acceptable the noise is without a muffler. It is certainly LESS loud then the Yo-Buddy Civics with sewage-pipe exhaust tips, and less annoying as well.

I just traveled 3.5 hours each way on the highway for an autocross in Atlanta, and once you're up to speed and can keep it out of the 'Resonation Zone' of 23-2800 RPM, it is quite liveable - IF you like the constant sound of an engine - I do. I don't think that I would suggest this to someone about to get their Boxster inspected or for generic, daily street use, but it wouldn't stop me from driving the car on the street occasionally between autocrosses, either.

As for the Dyno results, we made 4 runs per configuration with the B&B, then without a muffler and then the stock exhaust. I had been driving with the B&B for a few weeks prior to the test, so it had the best chance at being 'acclimated' to the engine management computer. All runs were made back-to-back during stable weather conditions, all within a 2-hour period and the exhaust was the only change that was made. This was a very static test.

You've heard about the results of the B&B in the thread above. This was predicted, yet still disappointing. What wasn't expected was the results the no-muffler runs produced compared to stock. The curves were IDENTICAL up to about 5K, then the stock muffler kept a clean, rounded curve where the no-muffler plateau'ed off and lost about 1.5 HP between 5K and 6500, then converged with the stock curve again from 6500 to redline. There was NO loss of torque at the low end without a muffler, which is surprising.

Honestly guys, this just proves the fact that you CANNOT gain power on a modern Porsche by simply replacing the exhaust. Maybe you could realize some gain by installing an aftermarket exhaust ALONG with changing the air intake, throttle body, engine computer fuel mapping, headers and the FOUR (!!4!!) catalysts that this engine uses. That I will give you.

Until then, you are only making noise..."

To answer your question, on a closed course, you could perhaps take the G35 if the course had a lot of turns perhaps, but on 0-60 sprint, I think you'd lose.
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Old 08-10-2007, 08:45 AM   #3
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Great now i feel like **************** ,

Last edited by blkboxster; 08-10-2007 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:04 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by blkboxster
Great now i feel like **************** , now on a diffrent topic, would sending my Ecu to power chip cause me to get a cel?
LOL. Sorry bout that.

As for the powerchip, I doubt you'd get a CEL. But if you do get your ECU reprogrammed, I think you'd get more out of it if you first do other mods like intake, headers, sport cats or cat bypass pipes, and then the ECU reprogramming. Do the ECU last, so that it takes advantage of the mods.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:41 AM   #5
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Last G35 I saw on track made it 2 laps before it overheated so you might win a 3 lap race.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:41 AM   #6
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http://www.fabspeed.com/Boxster.html

986 Boxster MAXFLO 2ndary Catbypass Pipes $495/set

it says it will fit 2000-2004, is there any for a 1999 box?

and how hard is installation? would i have to take my exhaust off?
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkboxster
http://www.fabspeed.com/Boxster.html

986 Boxster MAXFLO 2ndary Catbypass Pipes $495/set

it says it will fit 2000-2004, is there any for a 1999 box?

and how hard is installation? would i have to take my exhaust off?
00'+ Boxster were equipped with an additional set of cats that the 97-99's didn't have. So no,there aren't any cat bypass pipes like you want for the 2.5L engines.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkwatt
00'+ Boxster were equipped with an additional set of cats that the 97-99's didn't have. So no,there aren't any cat bypass pipes like you want for the 2.5L engines.
Actually, the secondary cat bypass pipes that Fabspeed sells replaces the set of cats that are connected to the muffler (which the 97-99 models also has), so in theory, you could probably also install them, but then you wouldn't be running with ANY cats on the car anymore, and so that would be illegal. The 00+ models still have a set of precats that are connected to the headers, so you still technically have cats if you install the fabspeed bypass pipes on the 00+ models.
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Old 08-10-2007, 03:27 PM   #9
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My wife has a 05 Infiniti G35 6sp manual, no mods. I've got a 2000 Boxster S with an EVO intake, modified muffler, and modified cats. I'm happy to report that the 986 S pulls away at any speed. Before I had the 2000, I had a 1999. As you know, the 2.5 doesn't really come to life until it hits 3500RPM...the G35 would be gone by then
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Old 08-11-2007, 10:44 AM   #10
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I have not dyno'd it yet, but I am inclined to think the FabSpeed exhaust, which deletes the secondary cats and does flow very well, could offer somewhat of a power bump, especially when combined with good headers. Unfortunately, I am also coming to the conclusion that the only way to get a resonance free exhaust is to stick with stock.

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Old 08-11-2007, 01:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxtaboy
Actually, the secondary cat bypass pipes that Fabspeed sells replaces the set of cats that are connected to the muffler (which the 97-99 models also has), so in theory, you could probably also install them, but then you wouldn't be running with ANY cats on the car anymore, and so that would be illegal. The 00+ models still have a set of precats that are connected to the headers, so you still technically have cats if you install the fabspeed bypass pipes on the 00+ models.
The manifold - 2nd catpipe(1st on a non e-gas) mounting points differ from the non e-gas to e-gas so I don't think the 2nd cat bypass pipes would fit on a non e-gas anyway. The opposite end that connects to the 'u' pipe should fit though(since the mufflers are interchangeable from 97-04.5').
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Old 08-11-2007, 01:48 PM   #12
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how does the B&b exhaust make the car produce less power?
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.fro
My wife has a 05 Infiniti G35 6sp manual, no mods. I've got a 2000 Boxster S with an EVO intake, modified muffler, and modified cats. I'm happy to report that the 986 S pulls away at any speed. Before I had the 2000, I had a 1999. As you know, the 2.5 doesn't really come to life until it hits 3500RPM...the G35 would be gone by then

Out of curiosity, how do you think a 2.7L would do compared to the G35 6sp?
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:14 PM   #14
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Had an encounter with a G35 last week.. My friends, I won by far, and I had a passenger.. We did it 4 times and I came out first every-time..

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Old 08-11-2007, 08:42 PM   #15
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Having previously owned a 2004 G coupe (sold it to buy Box, of course) I think the Box would sneek by
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Old 08-11-2007, 11:51 PM   #16
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"I have not dyno'd it yet, but I am inclined to think the FabSpeed exhaust, which deletes the secondary cats and does flow very well, could offer somewhat of a power bump, especially when combined with good headers. Unfortunately, I am also coming to the conclusion that the only way to get a resonance free exhaust is to stick with stock."

I also thought that, and tried several mufflers. I finally got the Dansk sport muffler, the one that looks like the stock Boxster muffler, but has a higher flow rate. Gives a nice tone, and no resonance.

Ed
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Old 08-12-2007, 06:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaudanova
Out of curiosity, how do you think a 2.7L would do compared to the G35 6sp?
The 2000-2004 2.7L Boxsters are quoted at around 6.4 seconds from 0-60. Let's say official Porsche numbers are a bit high, and argue that it can be as low as 6.0 seconds. Even then, the 07 Infiniti 0-60 sprint in manual transmission is quoted at 5.5 seconds, and the automatic version at 6.1. The new 08 G37 does it in 4.9. Even the 07 base Boxster takes 5.7 sec. to 60, so the Infiniti still has the edge in a 0-60 sprint.
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Old 08-12-2007, 06:47 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by blkboxster
how does the B&b exhaust make the car produce less power?
Porsche's engineers and their subcontracted engineers are hired to specifically design and tune the exhaust to cancel out the resonance and to maximize performance (ie. not lose power). They do this very well....witness all the other aftermarket exhaust makers that may make good sounds, but fail in canceling out the annoying resonance drone.

The ones that cancel out the resonance best are the aftermarket ones that actually are shaped just like OEM exhaust (eg. the Dansk units, the original Cargraphic units, among others).

Most of these aftermarket exhausts claim that they give you 10-15hp just by bolting them on, but in reality, actually makes the car LOSE power. Witness that in the post above, even with the freest flowing muffler (no muffler at all), the car still made slightly less power at certain points than when having a muffler installed, so it proves that the car needs a little back pressure to give maximum power. The key then, is how to design a muffler that creates that maximum power potential while still doing what a muffler should do- cancel out the drone.

Simply put, B&B did not put the extensive hours of research the OEM engineers/designers would have in designing the muffler. They simply would examine an OEM muffler, utilize a universal fit can that gives more sound, weld on the appropriate mounting brackets/u-pipes to make it fit at the OEM mounting points, put on some nice shiny dual tips, and then call it their sports exhaust, and market it for the aftermarket.

However, don't sweat it. I'd say that at the end of the day even a 4hp loss is not a big deal if you enjoy the extra sound you get from the muffler.
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