Some one tried to break in last night!!!!!

[kelly1005]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

1) Your best chance to instantly stop someone is not a center mass shot or a headshot (that you won't make).

I'll chime in here although I usually avoid these threads like the plague...

I keep a handgun for home defense, but I also train with it. I've got 100s of hours of training; last year alone I trained 6 days with a couple instructors for the Richmond SWAT team (Richmond is not the sorta place you would drive a Boxster in). Anyway, we do simunition training which is sorta like really good paintball except that they're fired out of modified real handguns, not toys. They run us through all sorts of scenarios (ATM robberies, home invasions, hostage situations, etc), almost all at night/dark using flashlights against live people. High stress stuff.

Anyway, in all those classes, with 10 people running through each scenario, you gotta figure I've seen a couple hundred events and half of them end in shootouts (sometimes the badguys listen when we tell them to do stuff or just run away). I've seen absolutely 0 head shots taken. I've seen people shot in the head, but never on purpose. Even at our training level it's hard to think head shots under crazy stress. Against paper, yea. Against living breathing people trying to do you harm, nope. The instructors do it, but they're real pros.

One of the instructors has done over 5000 home entries serving warrants and/or getting bad guys. He's also shot and killed numerous people. He's one of many that debunk the myth that a shotgun being racked will stop any serious criminals. If they're brave enough to come into your home, they're brave enough to face a homeowner who didn't think to chamber a round until the last minute. These people are not right in the head and often on drugs, they're feeling no pain and have no fear. Intimidation doesn't work, well placed hits do.

Oh, and all the instructors shoot .45s. All the students end up shooting .45s. I don't know if we're some cult or something, but on the line you see nothing but 1911 pattern weapons. I used to be a glock 23 guy, but gave that up after the first few classes. Once you figure out how to run a 1911, you never go back. There's a reason all those old cranky guys use 'em. They work.

If you're not going to train/practice, I would suggest to avoid any sort of weapons. Just get a dog or two, an alarm and hope 911 gets there in time.

[FrayAdjacent]

I wouldn't go as far as saying 'if you're not going to train, avoid weapons'.

I haven't gone to a DE. Should I avoid Porsches?
Formal training IS an asset... but not a requirement.

I have no formal training with any of my weapons... but I don't think that mattered when I came in 3rd out of 57 shooters in a local IDPA match. I did so through making myself familiar with my weapon, how it shoots, how to reload quickly, and all that.

I'd say it like this - if you're not willing to learn how to use a weapon (through formal training or otherwise), THEN you probably should reconsider having one.

[kelly1005]

Originally Posted by FrayAdjacent

I have no formal training with any of my weapons... but I don't think that mattered when I came in 3rd out of 57 shooters in a local IDPA match. I did so through making myself familiar with my weapon, how it shoots, how to reload quickly, and all that.

You're right, I updated my line to include practice.

I just don't like the idea that people seem to get that they can buy a gun, throw it in a drawer, and suddenly it will save them if needed. That's how innocents get hurt/killed and it's what the media thrives on.

[FrayAdjacent]

You ARE right about that. A gun isn't a magic talisman that wards off evil. It's a tool, and one has to know how to use a tool!

Originally Posted by kelly1005

You're right, I updated my line to include practice.

I just don't like the idea that people seem to get that they can buy a gun, throw it in a drawer, and suddenly it will save them if needed. That's how innocents get hurt/killed and it's what the media thrives on.

[Brucelee]

. "I also have a Remington 1120 semi, as Bruce noted you don't have to aim with sleepy eyes when you have a shotgun. Instead of the glass of wine find a kitchen knife and put it in the dead guy's hand, then call the po po"

Can I have the wine AFTER I put the knife in the guys hand?

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

. "I also have a Remington 1120 semi, as Bruce noted you don't have to aim with sleepy eyes when you have a shotgun. Instead of the glass of wine find a kitchen knife and put it in the dead guy's hand, then call the po po"

Can I have the wine AFTER I put the knife in the guys hand?

Absolutely, my dad was a deputy sheriff worked with a local judge for 25 years. It was actually the judge who told me to put a weapon in the dudes hand, go figure. He has since past away but his reasoning was sound.

[Brucelee]

My brother (retired cop) recommended the 18" shotgun to me, pref a pump 10 guage. However, we debated the pump vs the double barrel.

Either way, you can pretty much be a crappy shot and hit the entire front door just as the perp enters.

Now, here in CA, I would have to hire a defense atty as it isn't clearly legal to kill someone who just knocked down your front door.

Go figure! I'm moving soon, so to H,, with CA.

[Ghostrider 310]

Not legal to kill intruders in NY either, deadly force can only be used when confronted with deadly force. then you have the intangible of a jury, I like the knife idea a lot. Even better if we all never have to choose.

[Ghostrider 310]

I like the colts, I have four. I also have a Baretta too and it's a great gun. I have several family members in law enforcement, one on the federal level. The fed has a glock and my cousin carries a S&W on the local force. Heckler & Koch is a fine weapon too as is the sig sauer. The fed was a Seal team member, he could shoot you dead with any of the above, skill means a lot, brands don't.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by kelly1005

I'll chime in here although I usually avoid these threads like the plague...

I keep a handgun for home defense, but I also train with it. I've got 100s of hours of training; last year alone I trained 6 days with a couple instructors for the Richmond SWAT team (Richmond is not the sorta place you would drive a Boxster in). Anyway, we do simunition training which is sorta like really good paintball except that they're fired out of modified real handguns, not toys. They run us through all sorts of scenarios (ATM robberies, home invasions, hostage situations, etc), almost all at night/dark using flashlights against live people. High stress stuff.

Anyway, in all those classes, with 10 people running through each scenario, you gotta figure I've seen a couple hundred events and half of them end in shootouts (sometimes the badguys listen when we tell them to do stuff or just run away). I've seen absolutely 0 head shots taken. I've seen people shot in the head, but never on purpose. Even at our training level it's hard to think head shots under crazy stress. Against paper, yea. Against living breathing people trying to do you harm, nope. The instructors do it, but they're real pros.

One of the instructors has done over 5000 home entries serving warrants and/or getting bad guys. He's also shot and killed numerous people. He's one of many that debunk the myth that a shotgun being racked will stop any serious criminals. If they're brave enough to come into your home, they're brave enough to face a homeowner who didn't think to chamber a round until the last minute. These people are not right in the head and often on drugs, they're feeling no pain and have no fear. Intimidation doesn't work, well placed hits do.

Oh, and all the instructors shoot .45s. All the students end up shooting .45s. I don't know if we're some cult or something, but on the line you see nothing but 1911 pattern weapons. I used to be a glock 23 guy, but gave that up after the first few classes. Once you figure out how to run a 1911, you never go back. There's a reason all those old cranky guys use 'em. They work.

If you're not going to train/practice, I would suggest to avoid any sort of weapons. Just get a dog or two, an alarm and hope 911 gets there in time.

If you are suggesting that there are guys who can take two rounds from a 10 guage shotgun and keep coming, hey, I'd like to see those guys.

But, you may be right!