[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

these are completely contradictory recommendations coming from an oncologist.

Dr. Gundry now recommends eating as little animal based protein as possible. He's embraced the view that most of your protein should be coming from plants as he now says that the hormonal overload of animal products is not significantly diminished if you rely on grass fed or grass finished meat vs supermarket type meats.

A long term study of vegetarians found that "liquid meats" (eggs and dairy) basically nullify the advantages of a vegetarian diet as cancer, stroke, heart disease and dementia/ Alzheimers risks are not any lower in vegetarians who consume dairy as opposed to full on meat eaters. For this reason Dr. Gundry recommends NEITHER. He's basically saying try to be as vegan as your palate will tolerate by reducing the frequency and portion size of all anmimal products. He feels the hormonal risk of animal meats and dairy outweigh the protein benefits. In his view antioxidant deficiency is a far bigger concern than protein deficiency and puts you at greater risk of metastatic cancers. bottom line you have to stick with fruits, vegetables, and the grains that are on his low lectins list. It's a pretty limiting universe granted but if you understand the basic fuel source of cancer cells you realize that the higher the level of IGF-1 in your diet the more cancer cells will take advantage of this to fuel their own growth at all four stages.

50 years ago there was a study that found Europe's shortage of meat immediately after World War II resulted in a significant decline in cancer diagnosis. As meat came back into the food supply the cancer rates began to tick up. These studies were not followed up aggressively because the end game of recommending people eat more fruits and vegetables is not nearly the profit opportunity of developing a cancer drug. it is virtually impossible to link any meat product to a specific cancer because of the variation in people's genetics and activity levels. But the one thing all blue zones (where people live well into their 90s and 100s WITHOUT cancer, stroke, heart disease, dementia and Alzheimers) is that most of their diets are plant based and they avoid a great deal of processed carbohydrates (breads and cereals) and cut out sugar as much as possible (a well known fuel for cancer). Another big factor is the strength of their 'micro circulation'. This is the ability of your small vessels to transport blood to every vital part of your heart and brain. Eating a certain acid found in rosemary plant and a few others apparently clears out these blockages in these tiny vessels that get worse over time and lead to inflammation which is basically the entry point of dementia, hypertension and stroke. This micro circulation can be measured and in certain populations like the Aciorolla Italians the micro circulation of the population over 80 years old is on par with a 20 year old. Allegedly these Italians are sexually active well into their 80s and few wear eye glasses... pretty amazing.

The reason I've read about Dr. Gundry, Dr. Dean Ornish, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, Dr. Joel Fuhrman, Dr. Michael Gregger, Dr. Neal Barnard is that my father has late stage prostate cancer. He also has advanced dementia and hypertension. These have all been dropped balls by his physicians so I research literally every course of treatment and dietary recommendation. I'm frankly dismayed half the time by what I'm told. Nutrition shockingly is not an intensive part of their curriculum. Shocking because nutrition plays a huge role in all your health risks. the last straw for me was after his primary physician and several other well known specialists failed to detect a DVT bloodclot in his right leg that had been mainfesting symptoms for a lengthy period. which led to a stroke a year and half ago and he slowly lost the ability to walk and is now incontinent. He's been on Lurpon hormone deprivation (continuous not intermittent) since his very well known urologist mistook a benign enlargement for a malignant one and didnt realize until AFTER his BPH prostate surgery where the part of the prostate not removed was the part with aggressive cancer cells (Gleason 7-10). Two years later the PSA started shooting through the roof.

But his physical strength is impressive. He's never been iron deficient. His bloodpressure is like a swiss timepiece in its regularlity. His physical strength is the first thing healthcare workers comment on. He was taken out of hospice despite being on a full time urinary catheter bag with multiple comorbidities. His PSA test has been bullseye on the money after now five years of the hormonal treatments. For those who arent familiar with prostate cancer, the more testosterone you make the more the cancer cells have to feed them essentially. So for the last many years we have avoided animal products, or kept them to bite sized portions and satisfied his protein with brocolli, beans, lentils, sweet potatoes, (any vegetable with an edible skin is cooked in Instant Pot to remove the lectins) and and never leave out the raw vegetables antioxidant powerhouses like red cabbage, red onion spinach and pressed garlic. Just to repeat, Lupron as a cancer medication is basically like chemical castration. You are not making any testosterone in the traditional way your body produces it. Yet my father, who has been stuck in a bed for a year and half, has maintained his baseline of physical strength, particularly in his core and upper body on a largely plant based diet.

At any rate keto diets can be done and are with plant sources for protein. which makes it a win win for weight loss and disease prevention. There is no debating that animal proteins offer far quicker effect in the body and you'll have to do a lot less plant chewing by piling on the meat. but understand that these quick results have a doubled edged sword quality. First your sodium intake will ramp up and that is the real danger not really the fat. In fact carbohydrates are deadlier in the long run than dietary fats and a far better predictor of heart disease and stroke. But sodium is still the leading killer, a country mile ahead of high cholesterol. Excessive sodium's destruction to the heart's mechanics are much harder to repair with medications than the damage of cholesterol which is easily remedied with diet and exercise and statin medications as a last resort. Another big risk not often discussed are all the pesticides fed to livestock vs what you find in fruits and vegetables. A single serving of beef can have 12 times the pesticides of fruits and vegetables. That's because you're consuming a lifetime's worth of pesticides fed to the animal on that one portion vs. the pesticide found in a single crop cycle for the broccoli right next to it. Consuming a significantly higher amount of pesticides will not show up on your standard blood tests ordered by your primary physician. Nor will increasing your hormonal levels beyond your specific genetic breaking point (where dormant cancer cells start to use the excess hormone as a fuel source) become visible as an early stage cancer in these blood tests. Separate specific tests are required. My view is that meat based keto diet can be useful to get you to a certain point if you've been struggling to shed weight. But once the weight is off move towards eliminating the meat drastically and move towards intermittent fasting to burn through your glycogen stores during the day so you are fat burning while you sleep and all the way up towards lunch. Dr. David Sinclair of Harvard University who is a well known researcher on ageing seems to believe that (assuming you are otherwise healthy) you should not eat until you feel a hunger pain as this in his view seems to rev up your body's immune system.

As a prostate cancer patient, Gleason 7-9, Radical Prostatectomy, Radiation and Lupron, I have an idea of what your father is going though. My thoughts are with him. I was diagnosed and operated on 7 years ago, been off radiation for 6, off Lupron for 5 and my PSA has been undetectable since ending radiation. *Keeping fingers crossed*

I've already eliminated added sugar, but being Italian pasta is my weakness. What you wrote made me realize that I have to be more serious about other things I can do, diet-wise. And I thank you for that. Funny how doctors love to push pills, but don't tell you these things.

Best wishes to your father and mother, as I understand she's going through some things as well.