Quote:
Originally Posted by drewman75
Hi All,
Just looking for thoughts on this. I needed some maintenance interval work done plus a new water pump. I decided to use a pretty well regarded shop here locally instead of the dealer to avoid the ridiculous labor charges. The estimate was verbal (my first mistake). I was trusting because of the reputation. And then hours later he called and increased the estimate by $1000. But what am I to do at that point since he has my car and is already working on it. So I felt like I couldn't say anything at that point. Figured when I got the bill I would discuss it. However, much to my surprise, when I got my $3500 ($200 more than then the 'adjusted' estimate) bill for a 'major' maintenance and water pump/ therm replacement, they charged me almost $1700 in labor. Basically did what the dealer does and charge the Porsche 'recommended' labor hours regardless of how much time it took. So basically I paid 14 hours of labor when they had my car for about 6.5 hours. Shame on me for not asking. Nothing I can do about it. But I expected an honest transaction since they came well regarded and I have never in the past had an independent shop do that to me. I have always been charged hours worked. I mean isn't that the entire point of skipping the dealer and using an independent? Anyway, just looking for thoughts? Am I wrong in my thinking? I suppose I just learned a ridiculously expensive lesson since I basically now have to sell the car since it put me way in the hole. But just curious of others experiences and if I got ripped off or if this is now standard practice. Been a while since I have used an indy shop. I felt like I couldn't argue the point since it was my fault for making the assumption and not asking about how they charge labor. And with that in mind, I certainly doubt I have an form of recourse.
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OK, let's clear up a couple of points.
All shops estimate labor based upon "book", or factory fair estimates of how long a job should take. The primary cost differential is the labor rate, most independent shops hourly rates are $50 or more lower per hour than a dealership (that coffee and donuts is not really free, nor are the loner cars, which are typically written off as marketing or advertising expenses internally). It is not at all unusual for the total labor time billed to be more than the time the car spent in the shop, and this is not because of any accounting tom foolery, but because of multitasking. Suppose two cars come into the shop, the first for an oil and filter change, a water pump, and a brake flush; the second is just in for a water pump. The cost for each item on each car is estimated off "book". Both cars go up on the rack at the same time, or car one, the tech puts the oil drain tank under the car and pulls the sump plug, and then puts the coolant catch tank under the water pump and starts the coolant draining. While everything is draining, he starts on the brake system flush. The second car gets the coolant tank under the water pump, and starts the coolant drain. Once the cool is out, the tech starts the pump removal and replacement. You can see what is happening here, one tech is working on three items at the same time, the other on only one, but both customers will be billed exactly the same amount of labor for the water pump replacement. But in the case of the first car with multiple items being done, the total hours billed may not tally with the time the car was in the shop.
The concept of "book" time estimates is the backbone of how shops price estimate jobs. Do more complex jobs seem to favor the shop, the answer is yes, but it is the only fair way to estimate individual jobs consistently from customer to customer. It is also not uncommon for a shop to throw a customer a discount on a multiple item project like changing the AOS while doing an IMS retrofit (it only takes about 15 min. to do the AOS while the trans is out of the car, compared to an hour or more just doing an AOS on an assembled car), but that is up to the judgement of the shop in a given situation.
I would also always recommend getting a detailed written estimate on any major projects, so you know what to expect up front.