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SD987 · 05-12-2006, 07:30 PM

You're kidding me right? The problem with citing Wikipedia as a definitive source of information, is in the very nature of the site, as fully disclosed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Who_writes_Wikipedia

Unlike other encyclopedias, the volunteer authors of articles in Wikipedia don't have to be experts or scholars (though some certainly are). They can be anyone, including you! Volunteers do not need to go through any formal process before creating an article or editing an existing article. Many people have created or edited articles in Wikipedia. They come from countries around the world and are of all ages and backgrounds. Anyone who contributes to this encyclopedia is called a Wikipedian.

The best way to decide whether a particular statement is accurate is to find independent, reliable sources to affirm that statement, such as books, magazine articles, television news reports, trade journals, or web sites. For more guidance on evaluating the accuracy of Wikipedia articles, see Wikipedia:Researching with Wikipedia.

The Volkswagen Beetle passage you cite was added to Wikipedia by someone who picked up on the claims made by Paul Schilperoord in 'The Engineer' magazine, which if you do a little research on the matter, caused a bit of a buzz but wasn't substantiated. You can read the translation of the original Dutch press release and the Autoweek message board thread, which put the question on the radar of a few automobile sites, here.

http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.jspa?forumID=17&threadID=12968

MNBoxster's original question was who was the 'Father' of the Volkswagen Beetle, not who designed it. There is significant evidence that Hitler spawned the idea and whether that is considered 'Fatherly' is debatable. This is discussed in a gazillion places and stated (as an example, not a definitive source) by Csaba Csere in this CNN transcript:

ARENA: For more on the Beetle legacy, history, and what all this could mean for Volkswagen we are joined by Csaba Csere, editor-in- chief of "Car and Driver" magazine from Ann Arbor Michigan, welcome.

CSABA CSERE, "CAR AND DRIVER": Glad to be here.

ARENA: So, did I hear right, this idea was spawned by Adolf Hitler?

CSERE: Absolutely, shortly after Hitler came to power in 1933 he decided he wanted to put Germany on wheels just like the Ford Model-T had done to Americans only there was no inexpensive, affordable, reliable car in Germany.

However, there is also evidence that Hitler had a hand in the design. The following link is to the 'Hitler Historical Museum', which describe the circumstances under which Hitler conceived the car and a sketch of the vehicle:

http://www.hitler.org/artifacts/volkswagen/

If you read the page, I think you'll agree that sounds pretty "fatherly".

And of course, there are numerous "historians" who pretty much give F. Porsche all the credit for the Beetle, except for the idea of the car. The general storyline can be read in this sample:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/bv/beetle.htm

You see, the key to good trivia is asking a question with a definitive answer that isn't open to debate or interpretation. This rule would apply to both the phrasing of the question and it's answer. Question 2 is an example of good trivia. Question 1, was not, hence my post at 16:08.

05-12-2006, 07:30 PM	#8
SD987 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 874	You're kidding me right? The problem with citing Wikipedia as a definitive source of information, is in the very nature of the site, as fully disclosed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Who_writes_Wikipedia Unlike other encyclopedias, the volunteer authors of articles in Wikipedia don't have to be experts or scholars (though some certainly are). They can be anyone, including you! Volunteers do not need to go through any formal process before creating an article or editing an existing article. Many people have created or edited articles in Wikipedia. They come from countries around the world and are of all ages and backgrounds. Anyone who contributes to this encyclopedia is called a Wikipedian. The best way to decide whether a particular statement is accurate is to find independent, reliable sources to affirm that statement, such as books, magazine articles, television news reports, trade journals, or web sites. For more guidance on evaluating the accuracy of Wikipedia articles, see Wikipedia:Researching with Wikipedia. The Volkswagen Beetle passage you cite was added to Wikipedia by someone who picked up on the claims made by Paul Schilperoord in 'The Engineer' magazine, which if you do a little research on the matter, caused a bit of a buzz but wasn't substantiated. You can read the translation of the original Dutch press release and the Autoweek message board thread, which put the question on the radar of a few automobile sites, here. http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.jspa?forumID=17&threadID=12968 MNBoxster's original question was who was the 'Father' of the Volkswagen Beetle, not who designed it. There is significant evidence that Hitler spawned the idea and whether that is considered 'Fatherly' is debatable. This is discussed in a gazillion places and stated (as an example, not a definitive source) by Csaba Csere in this CNN transcript: ARENA: For more on the Beetle legacy, history, and what all this could mean for Volkswagen we are joined by Csaba Csere, editor-in- chief of "Car and Driver" magazine from Ann Arbor Michigan, welcome. CSABA CSERE, "CAR AND DRIVER": Glad to be here. ARENA: So, did I hear right, this idea was spawned by Adolf Hitler? CSERE: Absolutely, shortly after Hitler came to power in 1933 he decided he wanted to put Germany on wheels just like the Ford Model-T had done to Americans only there was no inexpensive, affordable, reliable car in Germany. However, there is also evidence that Hitler had a hand in the design. The following link is to the 'Hitler Historical Museum', which describe the circumstances under which Hitler conceived the car and a sketch of the vehicle: http://www.hitler.org/artifacts/volkswagen/ If you read the page, I think you'll agree that sounds pretty "fatherly". And of course, there are numerous "historians" who pretty much give F. Porsche all the credit for the Beetle, except for the idea of the car. The general storyline can be read in this sample: http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/bv/beetle.htm You see, the key to good trivia is asking a question with a definitive answer that isn't open to debate or interpretation. This rule would apply to both the phrasing of the question and it's answer. Question 2 is an example of good trivia. Question 1, was not, hence my post at 16:08. __________________ http://i7.tinypic.com/24ovngk.jpg http://i7.tinypic.com/24ow0id.jpg 06 987S- Sold Carrara White / Black / Black/Stone Grey Two-tone 05 987 5-speed - Sold Midnight Blue Metallic / Metropol Blue / Sand Beige 06 MB SLK350- Lease escapee Iridium Silver Metallic / Black We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true. - Robert Wilensky Last edited by SD987; 05-12-2006 at 07:34 PM.