986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners - View Single Post - Child seat

Daylorb · 11-29-2011, 01:19 PM

Thanks - great feedback. Another thing to consider...

Lets assume for a minute there is a head-on collision. Lets assume the deployment of the bag happens without incident. So now the bag is deployed - doesn't it provide benefit to the child? It must be safer to have a successful deployment and have an airbag than have it completely turned off?

Take it to the extreme - would it be safer to drive around with an inflated airbag all the time in front of your kid? Probably... which means it is the deployment that is the risk.

If that is the case - then it comes down to the likelihood of having a deployment that hurts a child that is properly fastened, more than 10" away, seatbelt on/etc. vs. the likelihood of the benefit of having an airbag there to cushion the collision.

Interesting how all of the statistics are back from the 90s before next gen/cold airbags were even on the market. I found this interesting quote included from the head of the campaign to get back seat riding for children:

But in 2000, fatalities declined to only nine -- even as the number of vehicles with passenger-side air bags rose to more than 80 million.

But Hurley said the drop in fatalities should not diminish the dangers of air bags for children.

"Small children are still being injured or killed because they were seated on the lap of an adult unrestrained in the front seat," he said. "So while the campaign has been successful, our work is not done."

Interesting stats here: http://www.carseatsite.com/statistics.htm. Some noteworthy...

Booster seats reduce injury to 4-8 year olds by 59%. (So boosters are a key...)

Booster seat use among 4-8 year olds increased from 4% in 1999 to 27% in 2004 (and no one was using boosters really pre-2000!)...

Therefore they were not properly restrained...

More interesting info here: http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/airbags.html. Including this comment:

"Occasionally, the energy required to quickly inflate airbags can cause injury. This used to be a serious concern with frontal airbags, but, thanks to new government requirements, airbag injuries are becoming a thing of the past. Fortunately, even with older airbags, most of the injuries that occur are minor scrapes and abrasions, and serious injuries and deaths are relatively rare.

NHTSA estimates that during 1990-2008, more than 290 deaths were caused by frontal airbag inflation in low-speed crashes. Nearly 90 percent of the deaths occurred in vehicles manufactured before 1998, and approximately 68 percent were passengers. More than 90 percent of the passenger deaths were children and infants, most of whom were unbelted or in rear-facing child safety seats that placed their heads close to the deploying airbag. More than 80 percent of people killed were unbelted or improperly restrained.1

Unbelted occupants are likely to move forward if, for example, there is hard braking or swerving before a frontal crash. These occupants can end up on top of, or extremely close to, the airbags as they begin to inflate. Short and elderly drivers can be vulnerable to inflation injuries from frontal airbags because they tend to sit close to the steering wheel.

Side airbags also have the potential to cause injury. However, side airbags typically are smaller and deploy with less energy than frontal airbags.

Three people were seriously injured by inflating side airbags during 1995-2008, according to NHTSA's Special Crash Investigations. No children are known to have been seriously or fatally injured by a side airbag.

A recent field study of children in side crashes found no increased risk of injury to children age 15 and younger associated with side airbag deployment. This study did not assess the effects separately for head and torso airbags."

Another data point on side airbags:

As of 2008, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has investigated over 1,500 crashes where SABs deployed. Sixty of the crashes involved children (ages 13 and under). NHTSA has reported only one child who has been injured by a side airbag; a 3-year old sitting unrestrained in the front seat (of course you wouldn't let your 3-yr-old ride in the front seat, let alone unrestrained!) who sustained minor facial skin lacerations from the side airbag cover. No children are known to have been seriously or fatally injured by a side airbag. A recent study of children in side-impact crashes found no increased risk of injury to children age 15 and younger associated with side airbag deployment. NHTSA continues to closely monitor real-world SAB deployments involving both children and adults.

11-29-2011, 01:19 PM	#8
Daylorb Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Austin Posts: 22	Thanks - great feedback. Another thing to consider... Lets assume for a minute there is a head-on collision. Lets assume the deployment of the bag happens without incident. So now the bag is deployed - doesn't it provide benefit to the child? It must be safer to have a successful deployment and have an airbag than have it completely turned off? Take it to the extreme - would it be safer to drive around with an inflated airbag all the time in front of your kid? Probably... which means it is the deployment that is the risk. If that is the case - then it comes down to the likelihood of having a deployment that hurts a child that is properly fastened, more than 10" away, seatbelt on/etc. vs. the likelihood of the benefit of having an airbag there to cushion the collision. Interesting how all of the statistics are back from the 90s before next gen/cold airbags were even on the market. I found this interesting quote included from the head of the campaign to get back seat riding for children: But in 2000, fatalities declined to only nine -- even as the number of vehicles with passenger-side air bags rose to more than 80 million. But Hurley said the drop in fatalities should not diminish the dangers of air bags for children. "Small children are still being injured or killed because they were seated on the lap of an adult unrestrained in the front seat," he said. "So while the campaign has been successful, our work is not done." Interesting stats here: http://www.carseatsite.com/statistics.htm. Some noteworthy... Booster seats reduce injury to 4-8 year olds by 59%. (So boosters are a key...) Booster seat use among 4-8 year olds increased from 4% in 1999 to 27% in 2004 (and no one was using boosters really pre-2000!)... Therefore they were not properly restrained... More interesting info here: http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/airbags.html. Including this comment: "Occasionally, the energy required to quickly inflate airbags can cause injury. This used to be a serious concern with frontal airbags, but, thanks to new government requirements, airbag injuries are becoming a thing of the past. Fortunately, even with older airbags, most of the injuries that occur are minor scrapes and abrasions, and serious injuries and deaths are relatively rare. NHTSA estimates that during 1990-2008, more than 290 deaths were caused by frontal airbag inflation in low-speed crashes. Nearly 90 percent of the deaths occurred in vehicles manufactured before 1998, and approximately 68 percent were passengers. More than 90 percent of the passenger deaths were children and infants, most of whom were unbelted or in rear-facing child safety seats that placed their heads close to the deploying airbag. More than 80 percent of people killed were unbelted or improperly restrained.1 Unbelted occupants are likely to move forward if, for example, there is hard braking or swerving before a frontal crash. These occupants can end up on top of, or extremely close to, the airbags as they begin to inflate. Short and elderly drivers can be vulnerable to inflation injuries from frontal airbags because they tend to sit close to the steering wheel. Side airbags also have the potential to cause injury. However, side airbags typically are smaller and deploy with less energy than frontal airbags. Three people were seriously injured by inflating side airbags during 1995-2008, according to NHTSA's Special Crash Investigations. No children are known to have been seriously or fatally injured by a side airbag. A recent field study of children in side crashes found no increased risk of injury to children age 15 and younger associated with side airbag deployment. This study did not assess the effects separately for head and torso airbags." Another data point on side airbags: As of 2008, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has investigated over 1,500 crashes where SABs deployed. Sixty of the crashes involved children (ages 13 and under). NHTSA has reported only one child who has been injured by a side airbag; a 3-year old sitting unrestrained in the front seat (of course you wouldn't let your 3-yr-old ride in the front seat, let alone unrestrained!) who sustained minor facial skin lacerations from the side airbag cover. No children are known to have been seriously or fatally injured by a side airbag. A recent study of children in side-impact crashes found no increased risk of injury to children age 15 and younger associated with side airbag deployment. NHTSA continues to closely monitor real-world SAB deployments involving both children and adults. Last edited by Daylorb; 11-29-2011 at 01:45 PM.