10-08-2014, 11:44 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 311
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Had and alignment - skittish?
I bought new rear tires and had an alignment recently. The numbers look in spec but I know there's a lot to the set up and impact of wear and performance. Mine's a DD right now. After the alignment the car feels, well, kinda skittish. I drive a lot at 80+ mph on a pretty flat concrete toll road (and have since I got the car). It feels like it could dart off one direction or the other but it never has. The back end kind of scoots sometimes, just a little left or right. Is it because something is kinda wacky or is the set up good and I'm just not use to the responsiveness?
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2003 S, 6 Speed, PCM, PSM, Bose, Litronics with washers, on its' second LN IMSB, comfort top, UDP, 987 engine mount, 997 RMS, Koni Sport Shocks, H&R springs, Techno brace, comfort blinkers, nin8six windscreen, particlewave light up cubby
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10-08-2014, 12:18 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami florida
Posts: 1,591
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Your alignment numbers look very good. This leads me to believe the problem might be a mismatch between old front and new rear tires. Are the tires exactly the same front to rear? Also new tires can be very squirm for t he first couple of hundred miles.
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Current car
2000 Boxster 2.7l red/black
Previous cars
1973 Opel Manta
1969(?) Fiat 850 Convertible
1979 Lancia Beta Coupe
1981 Alfa Romeo GTV 6
1985 Alfa Romeo Graduate
1985 Porsche 944
1989 Porsche 944
1981 Triumph TR7
1989 (?) Alfa Romeo Milano
1993 Saab 9000
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10-08-2014, 12:30 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 311
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Thank you. No, the front and back are not exactly the same, I'm planning on replacing the fronts very soon. I never had a car where I had to worry about the squirmy tires in the first few hundred miles .
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2003 S, 6 Speed, PCM, PSM, Bose, Litronics with washers, on its' second LN IMSB, comfort top, UDP, 987 engine mount, 997 RMS, Koni Sport Shocks, H&R springs, Techno brace, comfort blinkers, nin8six windscreen, particlewave light up cubby
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10-08-2014, 02:58 PM
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#4
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On the slippery slope
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin and Palm Springs
Posts: 3,793
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I just had new tires put on all around (Hancook Ventus V12 evo2) and alignment done
Mine handles great and sticks like glue
Here are the settings I had them use
Front
Camber -.2 on both
Toe 0.0 on both
Rear
Camber -1.6 on both
Toe +0.05 on both
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2004 Boxster S 6 speed - DRL relay hack, Polaris AutoTop DIY
2004 996 Targa Tip
Instructor - San Diego region
2014 Porsche Performance Driving School
2020 BMW X3, 2013 Ram 1500, 2016 Cmax, 2004 F-150 "Big Red"
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10-08-2014, 03:26 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 137
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What tires did you put in back? Are they up to spec? If the sidewall is not as stiff as the fronts, it may cause this (speed rating same?).
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Current: 2000 Boxster S....2018 Clubman JCW
Previous: '71 914 2.2 - TX license plate: "E-GO"....'73 914 1.7....'74 914 1.8....'73 914 2.0 - Saturn yellow with all original 2.0 options- R.I.P..... '74 914 1.8 with 916 body kit.... '72 914 1.7 - my very first car
Also: '09 Cooper Clubman....'90 Miata.... '80 MGB.... '76 TR-7
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10-08-2014, 06:35 PM
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#6
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Certified Boxster Addict
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,669
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I am going to guess that the new toe settings might be part of the cause. Your car went from having very high toe in to nearly zero toe.
Zero toe tends to free up the car and can feel skittish or darty and require almost constant corrections to keep the car driving in a straight line. On the positive side, zero toe also reduces understeer and greatly improves corner turn in.
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1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
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10-08-2014, 09:06 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebell914
What tires did you put in back? Are they up to spec? If the sidewall is not as stiff as the fronts, it may cause this (speed rating same?).
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Went with Michelin Pilots A/S 3 in the back. Pilot SS in the front. I believe they are up to spec.
__________________
2003 S, 6 Speed, PCM, PSM, Bose, Litronics with washers, on its' second LN IMSB, comfort top, UDP, 987 engine mount, 997 RMS, Koni Sport Shocks, H&R springs, Techno brace, comfort blinkers, nin8six windscreen, particlewave light up cubby
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10-08-2014, 09:08 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone
I am going to guess that the new toe settings might be part of the cause. Your car went from having very high toe in to nearly zero toe.
Zero toe tends to free up the car and can feel skittish or darty and require almost constant corrections to keep the car driving in a straight line. On the positive side, zero toe also reduces understeer and greatly improves corner turn in.
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Which toe are you referring too, front or back? It does feel like it requires more constant correction, especially since I drive in a (relatively) straight line most of the time.
__________________
2003 S, 6 Speed, PCM, PSM, Bose, Litronics with washers, on its' second LN IMSB, comfort top, UDP, 987 engine mount, 997 RMS, Koni Sport Shocks, H&R springs, Techno brace, comfort blinkers, nin8six windscreen, particlewave light up cubby
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10-09-2014, 09:03 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 156
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I did not see any mention of tire pressure. Tire shops frequently inflate to a higher limit for better tire wear. It would not be improbable that they inflated from and rear equally. Over inflated fronts will give a bouncy ride. Mine are 29 psi front and 35 psi rear.
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10-09-2014, 11:30 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opus69
I did not see any mention of tire pressure. Tire shops frequently inflate to a higher limit for better tire wear. It would not be improbable that they inflated from and rear equally. Over inflated fronts will give a bouncy ride. Mine are 29 psi front and 35 psi rear.
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Good point I'll fill up today and check them when I do.
__________________
2003 S, 6 Speed, PCM, PSM, Bose, Litronics with washers, on its' second LN IMSB, comfort top, UDP, 987 engine mount, 997 RMS, Koni Sport Shocks, H&R springs, Techno brace, comfort blinkers, nin8six windscreen, particlewave light up cubby
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10-09-2014, 11:56 AM
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#11
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Certified Boxster Addict
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coaster
Which toe are you referring too, front or back? It does feel like it requires more constant correction, especially since I drive in a (relatively) straight line most of the time.
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Both front and rear toe were reduced. Front to zero and rear to nearly zero. That was the biggest change that saw in your alignment numbers and so I am not surprised that you notice it.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
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10-10-2014, 07:18 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Severna Park, MD
Posts: 97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone
Both front and rear toe were reduced. Front to zero and rear to nearly zero. That was the biggest change that saw in your alignment numbers and so I am not surprised that you notice it.
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This. 12 degrees toe would have required effort to turn that car. Dialing it back makes it respond like a Porsche and not a econo appliance....
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10-10-2014, 08:32 AM
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#13
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On the slippery slope
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin and Palm Springs
Posts: 3,793
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Maybe some bump steer?
__________________
2004 Boxster S 6 speed - DRL relay hack, Polaris AutoTop DIY
2004 996 Targa Tip
Instructor - San Diego region
2014 Porsche Performance Driving School
2020 BMW X3, 2013 Ram 1500, 2016 Cmax, 2004 F-150 "Big Red"
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10-10-2014, 09:34 AM
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#14
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Registered Boxster abuser
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: socal
Posts: 1,014
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When I used to do alignments. Zero toe was a no no unless the car was a track car. If I had to guess... about 70 percent of abnormal tire wear is due to incorrect toe in followed by camber.
You have to realize that toe is set in a rest state. All suspensions have some type of movement even new. as soon as you start moving the toe will try to toe out especially under braking. If your car tends to be more skittish under braking you have too little toe and most likely worn components causing a excessive toe out condition under braking.
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10-10-2014, 09:37 AM
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#15
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Registered Boxster abuser
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: socal
Posts: 1,014
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Of course lack of toe will also allow the car to change direction easier at the cost of tire wear.
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10-10-2014, 05:12 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 414
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Personally, I would not have accepted that left rear toe number. It should be changed to match the right rear toe.
I just had my alignment re-checked today at zero toe in front, and 0.03 toe in on each side in the rear, and it is dead on steady as a rock on the highway.
Your front camber sucks, but that is another thing entirely.
Good luck.
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Kippis
986S
991S
Van Diemen RF97
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10-11-2014, 12:51 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthservices
If your car tends to be more skittish under braking you have too little toe and most likely worn components causing a excessive toe out condition under braking.
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Which components are candidates? I'm considering putting a M030 suspension on and wondering what else to replace while in there.
__________________
2003 S, 6 Speed, PCM, PSM, Bose, Litronics with washers, on its' second LN IMSB, comfort top, UDP, 987 engine mount, 997 RMS, Koni Sport Shocks, H&R springs, Techno brace, comfort blinkers, nin8six windscreen, particlewave light up cubby
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10-11-2014, 12:53 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAP1DOUG
Your front camber sucks, but that is another thing entirely.
Good luck.
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I assume that's because it is at the limit? Tell me more, I'm looking into doing some suspension work.
__________________
2003 S, 6 Speed, PCM, PSM, Bose, Litronics with washers, on its' second LN IMSB, comfort top, UDP, 987 engine mount, 997 RMS, Koni Sport Shocks, H&R springs, Techno brace, comfort blinkers, nin8six windscreen, particlewave light up cubby
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10-11-2014, 01:45 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SLC
Posts: 209
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I'm in agreement with Lap1Doug that you should have never walked out of the shop with that much difference from side to side in rear toe. They should have been spot on both sides.
Aside from that - You have gone from a more straight line friendly street set up to something more track suited. Perfectly acceptable for many on the street but it definitely requires more attention.
If it really bugs you take it back and get a little more toe in on both ends. This time with exact measures on each side.
Unless you have aspirations of driving on a track don't worry about camber. Your tires will last longer. You didn't give us any mileage on your car. It is possible the rear toe links are worn, but I would attribute your new found "twitchiness" to the alignment.
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10-11-2014, 02:48 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxD
Unless you have aspirations of driving on a track don't worry about camber. Your tires will last longer. You didn't give us any mileage on your car. It is possible the rear toe links are worn, but I would attribute your new found "twitchiness" to the alignment.
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Thanks. No track plans at the moment. 102k on original parts I believe.
__________________
2003 S, 6 Speed, PCM, PSM, Bose, Litronics with washers, on its' second LN IMSB, comfort top, UDP, 987 engine mount, 997 RMS, Koni Sport Shocks, H&R springs, Techno brace, comfort blinkers, nin8six windscreen, particlewave light up cubby
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