oil leak so I removed the trans....
 

It looks like I have a RMS leaks but I like to take a peak at the IMS. Can I just remove the cover or do I need to lock it in place and mark everything to remove and reinstall the cover?

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n...116_160939.jpg

Thanks for the advice and info...

Allen

If you want to pull the IMS plate, you MUST lock down everything unless you are looking to part out your engine components...period.

+1 with a bullet. Otherwise bad things are likely to happen.

Bummer more labor.

So
1. Remove the IMS cover bolts, rotate motor until holes in the ims holes are solid and insert set screws to hold IMS in place

2. Remove front engine compartment access door, remove the upper cam plugs, mark their placement with a marker.

3. Remove IMS cover.

4. reinsert cover when satisfied or replace bearing as per instructions.

Nope...you'll need to lock the cams in place. Follow the 1st part of the IMS replacement instructions up where it tells you how to remove the flange. PS: If you've gone that far, you might as well replace the OEM bearing with an aftermarket one since you'll have done most of the work anyway in getting to the bearing.

How do i go about locking the cams?

Actually this one is not one of my cars. Its for a old forum member (who I will not name) who is on a tight budget.

Yes I recommended it to him, no, as long as it is not leaking or obviously failing he will not do it or the clutch even though it is this far apart.

We all have our limits as to what we can afford. He has set his.

I would recommend reading the various technical articles about IMS bearing replacement on here, and pelican parts before you tackle the job. Or better yet have someone who's done it before do it or at least help. Especially since it's someone else car....if they're on a tight budget they will hate buying a new engine (ask me how I know)! Good luck!

Start with this: http://www.imsretrofit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/imsretrofit.pdf

You are going to need some special tools (cam locks, TDC pin, etc.) in order to do this, and you need to follow the above instructions to the letter except for pulling the bearing, which I would also strongly recommend doing as well as you will be 80% of the way there when you stop otherwise.

Stop it you're scaring me........ This is one of those operations that go horribly wrong (timing slips) and you cannot back out. The nightmare scenario, engine failure. If you go in, plan the entire operation end to end (including contingency bearing replacement) using published directions on doing it or leave it alone. No surprises, no real time learning. If you find the bearing is loose, will you change it? Then why not source a 6204 for a few bucks and plan on changing it out in kind if you go in? You can get another NSK or pick another manufacturer.

I think Ben Franklin said "penny wise and pound foolish."

It's a budget thing...

Well this is a 2001 model and I believe it is a double roller, Will two 6204 bearings fit? what is the alternative option?

If there is one maybe I can offer it to him. :cheers:

And yes when there is no money to spend and it is the only car you have to drive... There are not a lot of options.

If it's an '01, it likely has a single row IMS bearing.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z...117_190225.jpg


The cover looks pretty shallow ins't this a indicator of whether I have a single or double roll bearing? :confused:

That is a dual row set up.

Thats what I was afraid of. Is there a inexpensive alternative in the bearing market that I can use?

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Sorry, but I do not believe in using the cheapest bearing available in an application that could end up costing you $15K+ if it fails.

Just looking for alternatives for the guy. Its not all good times for everyone.

You have a PM...

I gotcha. I hear ya loud and clear, believe me.

Ummmmm "will two 6204 bearings fit?" Are you kidding?

You are clearly lost on this procedure, and have added that you're trying to do this as cheaply as possible.

Porsche's are not cheap cars- while they can be cheap to purchase these days (used), they are not cheap to own.

I get that you're trying to save a "friend" money here, and that's fine and dandy, but what kind of favor are you going to be doing him when his motor blows up after the fact?

If you're not willing to learn to do this the right way, obtain the proper tools, and get rid of this "as cheap as possible" mindset, you need to tell your friend to find someone who knows how to do this properly, and won't do it while trying to save a buck.

I'm not new to Porsche, nor am I new to working on cars. just looking at the possible alternatives. The guy is on hard times, on this board it does not happen to every member, but it does happen to some. Some how he is stuck with the car as his only driver. I'm just doing what I can for him.

Right now it appears the best alternative is the Pelican M96 Intermediate Shaft Bearing kit, it can be purchased for less than $200. Whether it is something the the member has in his funds to do is something he has to decide.

Yeah, that almost makes sense: Take out the strongest OEM design and replace it with the weakest. You want to save money, pull the IMS flange off, pop out the rear seal and put the car back together. Eminently better than installing a steel single row bearing and a spacer....................

Kudos to you for helping a friend on a limited budget, but just remember a good deed often does come with punishment. The single row bearing will go in place of the double row, it comes with a spiral locking clip to prevent is from moving. At thispoint I would strongly urge the replacement with a single row and a locking clip if for no other reason that in case this friend who is strapped for cash decides sell his car, it will be worth more and sell faster with an IMS replacement. And of course do the RMS. If the clutch aint slipping then he wont get any more for it on the used market but the IMS is a real selling point. Pelican has the single row and quite a good set of instructions. I did mine with only the directions on the pelican site and while its not a novice job it is a reasonable task.

When we do a PPI on a car that should have had a dual row in it that was replaced with a single row steel bearing kit, we count it as a deduct item against the purchase price, and strongly recommend the potential buyer replace it with a dual row ASAP.......

It's funny you all refer to him as a friend. He just a forum member local to me needing some help. I decided to install the IMS for no additional labor even thought there is definitely additional time required to install the parts.

I would not back away from working on that IMS. I'd turn and run. My 2 cents.

I'd have to agree with that. Experience has taught me that there are few things worse than trying to do a favor for someone who's prime consideration is not spending one penny more than they absolutely have to. Almost guaranteed to end in tears. Perhaps his best bet is to put it back together and dump it to buy something he can afford.

Oldboxster makes a valid point - No good deed goes unpunished.

When I was a young mechanic and I would freak when there was a scary unknown job, my older senior lead tech would say...

"it just nuts and bolts... nuts and bolts"


Of course its a little harder to say that now like when I do things on a BMW that requires a computer to accept the new part. Today even after a battery install you are suppose to program the computer to accept it!

I paid a 'European' shop with a 'Porsche trained' mechanic $100/hr to do my IMSB replacement and the valves got bent. It took them another month to fix it!:troll: They said they had 80 hrs into by the time they were done. And I tell everyone I can about it! Then they forgot to tighten all of the clutch cover bolts so I had to redo the clutch job 6-7000 miles later!

Round peg...


round hole



Square peg...



square hole


It's not brain surgery, but it one does have to take attention to details...

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Exactly. If you're trying to save this guy money, don't touch the thing, as trying to make this better, while trying to save money just ain't gonna work.

Better yet, I'd walk away from the deal and tell him that since he clearly can't afford to maintain this car, that he should just sell it to someone who can and buy something that he can afford.

Wishing you the best on this adventure if you proceed. If you find the bearing is good or bad this forum is a great resource for you to use. If you so much as remove the IMS cover, you should follow the excellent directions provided you earlier in this thread to the letter. Heretic alert! Stop reading if you abhor heretics! really, stop now! Heretic portion use at your own peril: If you decide to replace the bearing, replace the double bearing with a similar double - source a new bearing with the information embossed on the grease seal - the cheapest, Ahem, most cost effective option... Google the bearing number and you will have a plethora of options. Your challenge will be getting the bearing out (special tooling $$$), retrieving the stud that the bearing is on, (I pressed out my single easily with a vise and some wood tooling) putting the new bearing/stud together (freezer/hairdryer) and getting that assembly back into the IMS (Freezer + more special tooling $$$). Best of luck with the double. The letters on the grease seal tell you what type of seal is used, the single is "sealed" on both sides. I assume the double is as well. I *mainly* copied the original questionable design in my bearing replacement. The down side is that whatever you do even if you so much as open up the IMS cover to look at the bearing, you will "own" this bearing, and this engine in the future.

well that's long done, and gone... on to the next Porsche!

:D

Bearing pics?

Have to go out and take a look at it, but it felt good to me.

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I have been doing some research on ball bearing failure, and there is one test you can perform with a bearing in place.
Remove the seal and check how loose the cage is (also called a separator or retainer). On OEM single row bearings, check that the cage is not able to touch either the inner race or outer race. If it can, a bearing failure may be close.
I haven't done as much research on double row bearings, but on OEM double row bearings, the cage is a bit different. It is easy to see if it can touch the inner race, but you have to look very closely at the cage to see if any part of it can touch the outer race.
These checks should be performed on new bearings before installation. On single row bearings, you want to check that the cage cannot be pushed more in one direction than any other direction. In other words, it should remain fairly well centered.