Boxster S tuning
 

So, I have bee searching regarding options as far as ECU tuning for my wife's boxster.

Maybe I am out of line, but I have a 996tt, and it seems like there are a TON of tuners out there.

So who are the tuners?

Powerchip
Fabspeed
Kevin at UMW
Evo MS

Who am I missing?

If you go in this direction, mostly what you will be missing is $. Most reflashed DME's add very little in he way of actual performance, regardless of what their ads say. And while they do trick the DME into not throwing codes, more than one of those in your list cause problems at annual emissions inspection time because of the way they keep the car from throwing codes.

So let's see: Large expense, little real gains, lots of problems; not a recipe for a good nights sleep.............

Interesting...

I guess I expected something a little better than that.

Most people do, but that is the lay of the land. We recently had a 996TT with one of those reflashed DME's in because it would not pass the state "advanced" emissions test for inspection. State said they could not read one set of the O2 sensors, yet on the Durametric system, the car looks fine. We reflashed the car back to stock, and the car passed without problem. Some these aftermarket flashes do some weird things to keep the car code free, but the state system catches it.

Over the years, we have had a chance to see cars run on the dyno, then re flashed and run on the dyno again. The real world differences were not all that great. When we questioned the companies sell the flash, the response was always the same: The car still needed this, that and the other thing before the flash would deliver big numbers. Even with everything they said the car needed, the numbers were still not all the big.

The owner of 996TT that failed inspection decided to leave the OEM program in place, and after multiple track sessions, the car's track numbers were no different, the owner said he did not feel any difference in the car.

While I respect your advice, I feel like the second post sort of groups all tuners and cars in the same boat.

I realize what is done to turn off O2 sensors and state emissions reading as "not ready"

I am by no means a newbie to the tuning world.

However, if the owner of the 996t didn't think there was much of a difference and (I am assuming you run a repair shop, maybe I am incorrect) you didn't either.

You need a different tuner.

I have found in the world of Porsche, there are many who are purists, and while I respect that as well, I am not one.

In the case of a normally aspirated engine like the boxster, there's really nothing to be gained from an ECU tune alone. In fact, even in cases when a complete exhaust modification has been performed, to include plenum, throttle body, air intake ect..., the only real benefit to having an ECU tune at that point, is to adjust the air/fuel ratios in order from the ECU to adapt to the new changes. With that said, the only performance gains that one should expect to see, are perhaps an improvement in throttle response, better fuel economy, along with a slight blip hp/torque figures.

ok...that's more inline with my experience...

crossed my fingers that the boxster had something left from the factory. Oh well

FYI, all things considered, FVD/Brombacher provides one of the best ECU tunes for the 986 boxster.

FVD, Porsche Tuning, Motorsport, Accessories, Motortuning, Sportfahrwerk, Felgen, Bremsen, Leistungssteigerung, Boxster, Carrera, Turbo

Now...I've had VERY different experience with FVD on my 996tt.

Hmm .. how so ?

Oh it does, once you punch it out to 4.0 liters. Until then there is not much performance tuning that is easy to find. ECU tune on a stock Boxster motor is a well documented dead end.

My 996t is an FVD stage 4 car...er was.

Originally I contacted them about updating the tuning. They told me "no need" even though the tuning was quite old. (I came from a heavily mod'd BMW 335i with all bolt ons +meth and n2o)

In BMW world...tuning updates were happening all the time, so I thought I'd check.

FVD told me nothing left except cracking open the motor...first doubt crept into my mind.

Then i started digging...my DME's VIN was different than my car and there was no fueling provisions for my 5 bar fuel pressure regulator on a tune that was running nearly 1.2 bar!!!

No negative direct dealing with them what so ever, but I just felt my car could be much better. I have slowly started replacing FVD stuff, like I built my own exhaust for it and now it's tuned using bigger injectors, rather than the band-aid FPR approach.

Ditto. In fact, a person would be better off tossing the $800- $1000 for an ECU tune out the window in hopes that a homeless person got it.

I contacted Kevin at UMW and he straight up told me without race fuel...not tons of improvement.

Although I am sure I could get some throttle response from it. His is priced at 545.

Sorry to hear that you had a less than positive experience with FVD. In my opinion, they're one of the every few highly regarded tuners that still continues to provided high quality performance solutions (albeit expensive) for the 986 boxster.

What mods have you done to your boxster so far ? Or, what plans do you have ?

We are specialty shop handling mostly performance oriented vehicles, including Porsches; and yes, we lump most tuners together (including some you have not mentioned) simply because experience with their products for M97/97 and Metzger engine Porsches have led us to that conclusion. On normally aspirated Porsches, most tunes simply do not do much; on the Turbo cars, jacking up the boost, changing the injector pulse width and playing with the ignition timing are kind of standard stuff. But when an owner, who also happens to be a DE instructor ( so he knows how to drive), cannot get a consistently faster lap time out of a very expensive DME flash on a 996TT with extensive mods over the same car with the factory program, you have to start asking yourself if they are really adding all that much................

Boxster S tuning
 

I'm sorry, one anecdotal experience of someone I have no knowledge of and hearing second hand does not justify saying tunes don't make much difference.

Obviously every car and every tuner (meaning person who writes programming, not some generic flasher product) are different.

A tune is also related to what changes someone makes on a car. In fact many rewrites of programs are required on many modifications. Ex. You can't run different fuel systems, different turbos, different cams without programming.

A lot depends on a ecu's range of values whether it can compensate adequately for a given modification.

As I see, a nearly stock boxster with minor bolt ons does not benefit much from tuning.

My other porsche would not run without reprogramming.

I have built several vehicles in which the "flash" as you call it made drastic differences and I have had cars that the benefit was non existent. (My e39 m5 for example)

It'll just have full exhaust and intake. Not a big deal. Ill probably leave it at that.

Do you mind me asking what specifically you've done ?

What you think of my background is irrelevant; do a search, here and on other sites, ask some major league engine builders; we have run them on the track and on the dyno, they don't do much. These are Porsches, not Corvettes or BMW's; they have pretty unique programming in their DME, and are fairly well tuned as delivered from the factory. End of story....................

Go spend you money how ever you want.

I'm sorry, by no means did I intend for this thread to become adversarial and I did not mean to insinuate anything about your background.

I think maybe I came across in the original post as a newbie regarding modifications, wherein I can see why you feel the way you do.

I am however completely aware of the marketing hype that is involved in many (not all) claims as to power increases.

The original post was more to understand where a boxster lies as far as tuning. As you have said and others, it is pretty well tuned from the factory and seems to be able to do well with minor bolt ons.

However I stand by the fact that a general broad statement is similar to a stereotype and there are in fact cases in the car modifying world where alterations in tuning capabilities are required.

I am afraid my justification for that argument was construed as a pissing match..

I apologize for that, and again thank you for your comments.

Good information

Here's what I did:

http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/47555-tuned-modified-2000-boxster-s.html

"Tuning" is really a vague term that might be causing some of the confusion here.

NA Boxsters with no or little mods will probably not see a big difference in power from a "tune". These engines already constantly monitor and change intake cam timing, have a type of variable intake tube length, and in later years change valve lift. NA car tunes usually bump timing up in places, remove speed limiters, turn on fans sooner, change WOT mode triggers, throttle response on e-throttle, etc. If done correctly, these can make the engine feel more responsive, if not necessarily faster.

Forced induction engines (Porsche or otherwise) can see a huge difference in HP along with the aforementioned improvements. Higher boost levels, less bleed-off, injector upsizing, and higher timing charts specifically for higher octane, all can support much higher power numbers.

Where tuning really takes off is when it is done for that specific vehicle over a period of time (not just on a dyno for 5 minutes). My previous daily driver was a 2000 Grand Prix GTP. Supercharged 3.8L V6 with an automatic. Stock was 240 hp, maybe 280 ft/lbs. I had the basic mods on it (smaller pulley, CAI, DP back exhaust, UP) and saw nice increases. But it was not until I starting custom tuning it that it woke up. I used HPTuners for that car and over a month period, made the car feel completely different. Having a permanent wideband and gauge installed, along with mini laptop plugged in and constantly logging allowed me to set up multiple histograms to chart and record all sorts of data and filter it out at my desk. Dialing in all my sensors one by one, getting all my long term fuel curves to be within 1.5% everywhere, experimenting with WOT triggers, removing the electronic bleed, adjusting WOT a/f ratios, and adjusting ignition timing for optimal power without knocking all were done without a dyno. The car became so "tuned" that I could unplug the regular O2 sensor and drive normally and stay near 14.7:1 without the correction from that sensor (verified with the wideband).

Dyno only testing is not preferred if possible and many cars base the WOT numbers off of where the car enters WOT. It locks in values and adjusts off of that point. It the regular closed loop values are off, the WOT values will be also.

Being an automatic, shift speeds, delays, and line pressure were all adjustable. Torque abuse modes altered also further helped my times.

While obviously a different beast than the Boxster, many of these same ideas and inputs are used in the OEM tune of each car. I wish that I had the ability to get into and adjust my tune as completely as I could with the Grand Prix. Softronic did a great tune for me without physically having my car, but I know that given time, I could tweak it more.

Until my Boxsters engine swap, my Grand Prix was as fast and quick as my Boxster until over 110 mph. The tune alone gave me 4-5 tenths on the 1/4 mile track. That is very significant! During everyday driving, it also increased my gas mileage. While every car is different, this goes to show how much a proper tune can gain someone.

Once I do not have to emissions test the Boxster (after a certain year), I will probably go the complete standalone route for the engine itself. Real time logic programming / logging will get the full potential out of my 3.4L.

While many of these online tunes might be a waste of money, a tune done right can be the best modification done to an engine.