Does this sound like chain tensioners?
 

I get a nasty rattle that lasts for about 2 seconds with a cold start. I think it's probably cam chain tensioners but I thought I'd post it to get a second opinion.

This video doesn't totally capture the sound at its worst and I'm aware there is some residual valve lash clatter even after the first couple of seconds. Concentrate on the initial sound on the start up.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...rcoldstart.jpg

Like a gear sliding on chain links sound then it smooths right out? Don't want to be Debbie Downer but that's exactly what my 98 did for about eight months before breaking; I was always of the thought it was the tensioner that went bad. If you check the pelican projects, you will see it references a redesign in tensioners for the 986, which really is a head scratcher how many years does Porsche need to make tensioners before they get it right?

Sounds like classic tensioners to me.. Pull them out and clean them with some Marvel Mystery oil heated to around 160F... Partially submerge them and pump on the pistons until clean oil appears and then reinstall.. You should be good to go.

This doesn't all that unusual for Boxsters in my opinion. Mine tends to be quieter with thicker oil

It is tricky to get the right mic to convey what you are hearing; it may not be responding to the first two seconds of noise as much as you would like.

Engine experts?

Jake-Can I just lock the motor at TDC and then remove, clean and replace one tensioner at a time or do I need to lock the cams also? I have a 5 chain motor.

Sounds like I have to post a sound clip here as well when winter is over. I had thought chain tensioner removal was a major undertaking requiring one to drop the engine?? Well it's major in my garage anyway.

How long can one get away with dirty tensioners?

the initial clatter on startup for about a second sounds pretty normal to me and all the Boxsters I have drove (and 996's)

Pelican's DIY guide to cam tensioner replacement: Pelican Technical Article: Boxster Camshaft Upgrade / Chain Tensioner Replacement - 986 / 987

Instructions say that it can be done with the engine still in the car but doesn't look like a trivial job.

I was embarking on that same quest but when my leg wouldn't hold me I sold the car to Jake, perhaps in the near future you guys will see a tensioner job or whatever did go wrong. A lot of the tensioner job is dis assembly, however, once all the way to the heads, it does look like a challenge, a job that is not insurmountable but will likely test your patience and every bit of skill you have. Even one of the local crackerjack indy's waived off on that job and he wrenches daily.

This thread is about CHAIN tensioners not Vario-cam tensioners

So is it possible to remove and clean the tensioners one at a time without locking the cams?

OK maybe I'll be the dick of the day here but... I don't remember seeing any other tensioners in the Bentley manual

I'd like to know this too. I've read every thread I could find about this job on different forums - some where the owner claimed he did it one-at-a-time without locking the cams and then some other folks say it's vital to use the special tool. My car is a 2000 S.

If anybody knows a DIY writeup w/pics on this subject (I've seen the Pelican one) please post a link.

I must say that my 2001 S (@ 50,000 miles) sounds a lot like Dales car's initial 1 to 2 second "chain being dragged over a log" noise - but mines only on cold startup (though Dales car ticks more than mine after the initial noise has died down).
I'm running Shell Helix Ultra 5W40, changed every 3000 miles, but that hasn't changed the noise since I bought the car from the OPC over 3 years ago.
I believe there are 3 hydraulic tensioners involved, which can leak down or get lazy over time, allowing the cam chain tension to become slack and noisy on startup. If I remember correctly, there is a newer version out that has a small keeper spring which helps pre-tension the chains. The engine has tobe locked down to replace /inspect these tensioners. Perhaps someone can verify ......
Perhaps changing to 15W40 oil will help prevent bleeding down?

I think a lot of us have the same questions - what are the long term affects of having the hydraulic tensioners slow in pumping up as per Jakes comment above - a skipped chain is the last thing anyone needs, but surely the hydraulic tensioners don't bleed down that far !!!
I'm assuming Marvel Mystery Oil is genuine & probably something we can't get here in Australia.

From what I read in preparation, it needs to be locked down, there are some metal plugs that need to be replaced after the procedure that cover the cam ends. The tool, which looks rather simplistic would be needed. If you had one to copy you probably could but by the time you go to the trouble...After you lock everything you can start. Part of the procedure includes removing a sprocket, with the chain loaded, that part looks like it would be easy to screw up.

Yes, it is real. Has been around forever here in the U.S.
::Marvel Mystery Oil::

if i'm understanding right, jake's talking about the chain tensioner (green arrow)
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...mall/Pic23.jpg

and not the vario-cam tensioner
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...mall/Pic19.jpg


also, this little blurb from pelican parts:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01/0071323888252.jpg


Maybe we will all see a tensioner job when this gets to Ga. I would like to take a minute to tell you guys that Jake Raby and his partner James are principled, excellent people to do business with. Sure, like the rest of you sometimes his prices make me gulp hard. BUT I learned well at Kodak you can drive a price premium when you give excellence, I believe that's what is going on in that shop. Good luck with the car Jake, even if it's a loose screw I'd still write the same about you and hope you feel the same way about dealing with me..

Looks like you have cleared things up. My appologies for mis-directing the thread. I didn't know that these were affected by oil crud etc. I though they were just spring loaded and oil damped. Looks like they are accessible in situ.

Does this mean low oil pressure will yield improper chain tension? Yikes!

I would guess that it is best to lock up everything before fiddling with these

We'll let you know... Thanks so much for the kind words, sorry it took weeks to get the car picked up.. No one wanted to head into Syracuse! We will stay in touch. You were also very honest, and straight forward to work with.

Dale K - any further develpement on this issue....
Have you discovered any "quick fix" on the tensioners??

Nothing new. I never got an answer about doing it without the cam locking tool. I'm planning on taking my car to the local indy after the holidays.

I cleaned the two lower tensioners today without using the cam locking tool and it went fine, in terms of not skipping timing. My method was to lock the crankshaft, take the tensioners out one at a time, clean and then replace before moving on to the next tensioner.


To lock the crank, I just rotated the crank pulley CLOCKWISE ONLY with a combination 24 mm wrench (socket would not clear), lined up the marks and pinned the pulley with a longish 8mm bolt through the hole that was near 11 o'clock on the pulley.

Then I heated up some mineral spirits and Marvel Mystery oil that I put in bottles and placed in boiling water. One at a time, I took out a tensioner, submerged in mineral spirits and plunged repeatedly till it ran clean, same with the MMO and finally in clean oil, the immediately installed it completely. Torqued to 59 ft-lbs.

Good news is it was easy, bad news and I is a still get clatter on start up. By the way, I also changed the oil to Castrol 10-40 at the same time. I don't know if the upper tensioner (which I didn't clean because you need to remove the AC compressor to get at it) may be making the noise, although this morning I listened to the upper tensioner with a stethoscope at dead cold startup and the tensioner did not make noise. Maybe the noise is not even the chain tensionrs, possibly valve clatter before the hydraulic lifters get pumped up.

Anyway, I'm done chasing the clatter. I've tried really thick oil, 15-50 and 20-50 and thin oil, 0-40, and nothing seems to make a difference. I give up.

DISCLAIMER-I'm not recommending anyone follow my method, especially if you have a 3 chain motor, several knowledgable posters recommend against removing the tensioners without locking the cams.

San - good to hear you attacked the problem head on, you have done exactly what I was planning on doing. You have saved me - and maybe others - a lot of agro and effort !!
Sorry to hear that the problem is still evident - perhaps we are all going to have to live with it untill the sky falls in.......
Thanks for your contribution.

Yeah, thanks for the update. I too, am uncertain whether or not the noise is lash adjusters or faulty tensioners. I was thinking about the tensioners since fixing/replacing the lash adjusters would cost a fortune. I wasn't planning on cleaning mine but replacing them with new. I don't see how you would know for sure unless you replaced them and I think the parts have been updated since the car's were built, so apparently they're a know trouble spot. I think I've seen a picture of a replacement tensioner with a big spring to keep the chain kind of tight during startup even if the hydraulic aspect has bled down overnight.

I haven't talked with my mechanic yet about the work. I don't like working under my car alone so I'm kind of afraid to attempt it DIY.

Nice job on getting in there! How much oil did you loose upon removing the lower tensioners. Did it appear that proper oil pressure is needed for them to work or are they spring loaded? We're you able to reach them all with the car on jack stands?

Since I was also changing the oil, the oil was already drained at the time that I removed the tensioners, and only a small amount came out. The tensioners appear to have an internal spring, after I had pumped out all the oil, there will still pressure pushing the piston outward.

It's really easy to get at the tensioners with a car on jack stands. The IMS tensioner is horizontal, so it's a bit of a tight fit, but really pretty easy. The tensioner for 1-3 bank points straight down, so that was a piece of cake.

As I mentioned before, I didn't do the tensioner for bank 4-6, which is towards the top of the motor and requires that you move the air conditioning compressor out of the way to access it.

I was able to get all 3 tensioners out when I did my IMSB upgrade. I remember the third one being a pain, but I didn't remove the AC compressor. I can't remeber step by step what I did but I do remember being patient and going slow to get it out.
I locked the cams and TDC, but I was also doing the IMS bearing at the time.

What is the cam locking procedure
; and special tools required (5-chain)

Hi there!

Could you please let me know how much time a mechanics need to change both cam chain tensioner ?

nobody knows?

Changing the cam chain tensioners is not a difficult job, except for limited access on the top (bank 2) one. You could do it in an hour. Doing the variocam tensioners is more complicated, especially with the engine in the car. I did it with the engine removed: a big project for me! Apparently it can be done without dropping the motor but it would be complicated for a first timer.

Thank you Newart !

It's the Variocam tensioner II have to change according my Indy
But it's an expensive job and I would like to know how much time it take to see if my Indy quote me the right labour time !

If it's for camshaft deviations, it will probably be the tensioner pads. Get a couple of quotes: Rombotis Tuning, TMR Auto, EK Performance, for example.