Bent wheels for a newbie

[gwellman]

Hey all,

After about a month of browsing through this forum I found a boxster that I loved. I took it for a test drive and had a PPI done at a local porsche mechanic. The dealer was lacking in the customer service dept, but everything looked good so I took the plunge a week ago and I am now the proud owner of a 2003 boxster S. For the short story, skip to last paragraph.

The cars looks and feels great (in my novice opinion), but on the first night I owned it I noticed that the right tail light was out. When I pulled out the assembly the tail light seemed fine but there were two other bulbs missing all together (rear fog light and side marker light I think). Shocked but unphased, I bought replacement bulbs and installed them. They still weren't working. At this point the frustration began to set in.

I called the dealer (I bought it used from a BMW dealership) who was not at all helpful until I remembered that the original description of the car mentioned in passing that it needed a new tail light to pass the state inspection. Somehow this didn't show up the the PPI and the dealer had overlooked it when giving the state inspection sticker. Is it just me or is this a wildly simple thing to be passed in two inspections? It took more finagling than I expected, but the PPI mechanic eventually agreed to fix it (turned out one of the lights was installed backwards and had blown a fuse). That was on Friday.

On Sunday I bought winter tires from somebody local who had just sold his '02. We talked for a bit about the car and then he pointed out that my front rims are a little bent (greeeeaaaat). I can safely say that I remember every minute of driving this week old car and did not hit any big potholes/curbs. He suggested that I go back to the dealer and demand that they retrue them for me. It seemed reasonable that either the PPI mechanic or dealer should be responsible.

So now my question: are the bends bad enough to need attention? The dealer has begrudgingly agreed to have it looked at by his mechanics if I bring it in, though I assume that the mechanics will just say its fine and send me on my way. The whole dealer/mechanic experience has been a headache, so is it worth fighting them on this or should I just drive on?

Thanks so much!

Greg

PS - I should point out that I do not notice the bends when I am driving it (not that I have any experience).

(pics attached: front right, front right, front left)

[mptoledo]

The last pic doesn't look that bad but the first two pics would worry me a little. You want a perfect fit for the tire to seat. I would hate that to blow at high speeds. I am by no means a tire expert but what is the worst thing that can happen if you ask them to fix it? They say no? Well you already have that answer without asking. Did the ppi inspector check those? You can always check into your insurance.

Until an expert chimes in, I might take them to a reputable tire shop and see what can be done and how much it would cost. I don't know if you can "straighten" out these rims "SAFELY". I am sure two new rims aren't cheap.

Side note,(again, I am no expert), but they look like they are bent out not in. To me that would be the fault of who ever put them on last. I guess you could bend them out if you hit a railroad track hard. Do you see any marks on the bend point? Meaning usually if you hit something it will cause a scrape or sharp impression. If it was the tire shop taking the tire off it wouldn't show an impact mark. Just my 2 cents, good luck!!

OH, sorry,I almost forgot. Welcome to the Boxster club!!

[chaabouni]

My $0.02 on this:

First, on the light: there is no right rear fog light - only left. So, that's not dealer's fault. It's just the way they come.

The wheels: I had two front wheels bent on my last Audi (now gone) because the tire shop that replaced the tires did it by hand using hand tools (citing low profile issues and machine can't do it, blah blah blah) and they bent them! You don't have to hit a pothole to get them bent. If you do, you usually have some distinctive rash that goes along with that. So, I went to another tire shop to get a professional opinion on what to do. They said they can bend them back into shape. However, there is a slight problem with this solution. Aside from the cost, which can be high (they have to ship them to a 3rd party shop), they have to heat the wheels up with heat gun to soften the aluminum to bend it back. Doing this, compromises the structural integrity of the wheel, and therefore is not recommended for high performance cars, especially if you want to drive them at a good speed. Isn't that why we all have Porsches? So, even though it was an Audi, I had to spring up for a whole new set of wheels (fronts and back matching). The original shop would not fess up to their idiotic mistake. Live and learn - $1,500 later!

Good luck!

[jwade]

If you can, have the people that installed them replace them. I would not tollerate that workmanship!

These wheels are not cheap. If they balk, go get them in small claims court. Do you have a lawyer friend?

[mptoledo]

Originally Posted by jwade

If you can, have the people that installed them replace them. I would not tollerate that workmanship!

These wheels are not cheap. If they balk, go get them in small claims court. Do you have a lawyer friend?

good idea about small claims court, but check your limits in small claims, and most don't allow lawyers. Before that tell them that while driving on their mistake if you wreck the lawsuit will definately go up exponentially!!!

[gwellman]

I appreciate the feedback guys.

I looked closely and there aren't any marks at the bend point. The car came from NH, so it might of happened when the summer tires were put back on this year. Unfortunately I didn't own it at that point and don't know when or where that might have been done.

Any suggestions on where to go from here?

Thanks again.

[chaabouni]

My recommendation is to replace the wheels for the following reasons: 1) you may not feel it now, but when the temperature drops, my guess is you will start to feel some vibration due to uneven contact. This can affect performance, handling, and in the long run may damage your suspension. 2) I can't tell from the pictures, but I'd imagine overtime you will break the seal and lose pressure at the least opportune moment leaving you stranded, or worse at high speed can lead to a catastrophe!

I'd ask the dealership to replace them, or be on the lookout here on this forum and on eBay for gently used matching replacement wheels.

Best of luck!

[mptoledo]

Yes, I agree with chaabouni. Get rid of them ASAP. If money is an issue I would get rid of the one in the first picture first. I have no idea how much those rims are. check ebay and craigs list..

Good luck!!

oh, you already know this, but i would find someone else to do the job and take pictures of your rims before.


PS are they 17" or 18" i will keep a lookout for you!!

You could always upgrade and sell your on ebay. somebody has to be looking for 2 good rims in your style

example. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/18-PORSCHE-WHEELS-RIMS-TIRES-HOLLOW-SPOKE-TURBO-TWIST_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQ hashZitem3354b5b65bQQitemZ220464526939QQptZMotorsQ 5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[ekam]

I'd check to see if those wheels you got are replicas. That's one hell of a pot hole if you ever hit it.

[mptoledo]

[QUOTE=ekam]I'd check to see if those wheels you got are replicas/QUOTE]


I was just thinking the same thing as I was searching ebay. these are close to yours but 19" and the points are out rather than inward pointing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/19-8-11-Porsche-911-996-997-Wheels-Rims-Brand-New_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQha shZitem2c4d956ee3QQitemZ190280199907QQptZMotorsQ5f CarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

If you do go the replacement route, try to find some place you can pick them up as the shipping could get ugly.

[mptoledo]

these look like them

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/18-Porsche-Carerra-Penta-Style-Wheels-Rims-996-C2-C4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhas hZitem19b58a5958QQitemZ110419925336QQptZMotorsQ5fC arQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[mikefocke]

in repairing rims. Usually the damage was cosmetic and the sanding, filling and painting makes them good as new. Generally costs $100-150 per wheel.

What you are doing is different...structural. And those 18s you have are beautiful but they are the lightest wheels Porsche sells (assuming they are real P-car parts...do they have a Porsche part number stamped into them?). I doubt that they were damaged by tire installation, rather from some contact that resulted in tire damage and thus the need to replace the tires. Which raises the possible issue of alignment. Or other suspension damage. This is one of the risks of low profile tires...that the tire has less give ability in the difference between the road and the wheel and thus the tire can be more easily forced back applying pressure against the wheel. When you add in the material wheels are made when they are intended to be both wide and light and you have potential for damage. You said the car came from the north and that means potholes and increased possibility of damage...the smoother the roads the bigger the wheels can get.

I'd get it looked at by a pro that specializes in rebuilding wheels and has a history with Porsche wheels. I'd want the truest contact between wheel and tire I could have.

Hope everything else with the car is fine and you enjoy the heck out of your new toy.

[chaabouni]

Random thought, follow me for a second: since both front wheels are bent the same way, there are two plausible explanations: 1) someone at the tire shop who did not know what the $%@! they are doing bent them with tools they should not have been using, or 2) the PO hit something on the road at a good speed with enough lip to put a dent on both wheels - something like a high steel plate, or going from a dirt patch onto an elevated asphalt patch, or worse, hitting a low sidewalk head on! In this case the damage would not be limited to the outside of the wheels. You should also be able to see it on the inside wall as well. What I'd recommend is to inspect the inside of the wheels (maximum turns to the right and left) to see if there is any damage. If you find damage, you kind of know what happened, and Mike would be right. I'd take it to the dealer and have them inspect further damage to the front axle including suspension, steering column, rods, etc.

[mptoledo]

Originally Posted by chaabouni

Random thought, follow me for a second: since both front wheels are bent the same way, there are two plausible explanations: 1) someone at the tire shop who did not know what the $%@! they are doing bent them with tools they should not have been using, or 2) the PO hit something on the road at a good speed with enough lip to put a dent on both wheels - something like a high steel plate, or going from a dirt patch onto an elevated asphalt patch, or worse, hitting a low sidewalk head on! In this case the damage would not be limited to the outside of the wheels. You should also be able to see it on the inside wall as well. What I'd recommend is to inspect the inside of the wheels (maximum turns to the right and left) to see if there is any damage. If you find damage, you kind of know what happened, and Mike would be right. I'd take it to the dealer and have them inspect further damage to the front axle including suspension, steering column, rods, etc.

Didn't think of that, great idea
1.) if inside of wheel is damanged at roughly same place as outside, It's not the tire places fault and could be more damage to suspension and other stuff.
2.) if no damage to the inside of either tire then its most likely or could be tire places fault.

question, who did the ppi? was it the place you bought it from or did they recommend them? Someone could have traded it in damaged and dealer is covering their arses. Ya never know. I was a new car sales manager and have seen it all. It wouldn't suprise me unless this dealer has an inpecable reputation.

Might have trouble proving it. but ya gotta try!!

[Aron in Toronto]

I agree with those who said that looks like impact damage on the road and not from a careless installer. If you didn't hit something and the damage was there when you bought the car then shame on the dealer and whoever did the PPI. The good news is that the damage is most likely repairable by as professional wheel repair shop. I have had similar damage repaired on a Porsche "Sport Design" wheel and including refinishing the machined lip and the cost was ~$125. When finished it looked like new.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by gwellman

I appreciate the feedback guys.

I looked closely and there aren't any marks at the bend point. The car came from NH, so it might of happened when the summer tires were put back on this year. Unfortunately I didn't own it at that point and don't know when or where that might have been done.

Any suggestions on where to go from here?

Thanks again.

I would like a extra pair of rear wheels if you want to sell yours.

[gwellman]

Wow...

I wasn't expecting so much useful feedback. You guys are the best!

To address some of the replies:

-They are 18" wheels. I believe they are originals because because they are listed on the original window sticker. I guess they could have been replaced - where would the porsche part number be stamped?

-I checked out the inside of both fronts and did not see matching bends. Looked at them and felt them but there was nothing notable.

-I had my PPI done at a mechanic I found on the PCA north east website. The dealer wanted it to be done at a porsche affiliate of theirs, but I wanted an impartial 3rd party. I attached a copy of the PPI this time (sorry for the crappy quality, this is what they emailed me).

Now for some unfortunate updates... I finally had a mechanic friend take a look around and he found:

-The front left tire has a tear in the sidewall (pic attached). I figured that I would have a hard time arguing this, but my mechanic buddy claims he can see that spray-on sidewall finish inside the cut - indicating it was present when the dealer finished the car. We'll see.

-A CV boot that was supposed to be replaced by the dealer was still in ribbons (pic attached). The dealer took 10 days to "get the boot" and then only replaced one of the torn boots. On top of that, I had the PPI mechanic look the car over again when he replaced the tail lights on Friday and "everything checked." No mention of the boot, wheels or sidewall.

I'm really having serious doubts about the integrity of this (specific) vehicle. I am going to see the PPI mechanic and dealer on Thursday morning. Thoughts? Opinions?

And I've got to say it one more time... I am totally impressed with the willingness to help out a new guy. Hopefully my new car will last long enough for me to give back to the boxster community.

Best,
Greg

[ekam]

Is it just me or how the heck does the CV boot break like that??? I have a strange feeling that this car was repo'd and the owner just went crazy with it.

[chaabouni]

How about a bad "tow job" the municipality kind where your car gets taken to a impound lot with regard for its safety or breakage? Could one of those "raise the front end from the wheels" jobs do the this kind of damage?

[mptoledo]

Like I said before, you didn't just buy a Boxster, you got your self one heck of a support group.

Does the PPI have some type of liability for things he missed? I would check the oil and tranny fluid, belts and other stuff on your own just to make sure!! I don't think there is any evidence of abuse, but maybe a bad tow was the culprit. I would definately hold the dealers balls to the fire to get as much done as you can. The ppi also if you can!! I Mean what the hell did he inspect? your radio?