Any REAL gains to mod exhaust on a 2.7?? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Bobiam · 03-05-2009, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I have been evaluating exhaust systems scientifically for the past 2 weeks.. i am almost done with the 2.5 testing and in the middle of the 3.2 testing, the 2.7 will come next.

I have seen HUGE differences with different systems during this... My evaluations are being done for my engine program so lots more than just TQ and HP are being measured. Things like Db levels in the cabin, acceleration, AFR, 0-60 times and 40-80 times as well as drive-ability are being measured..

on top of that Put my Wife in the car with each system and attain notes from her on the differences between systems as well..

More later, but today between two systems tested absolutely back to back on my 2.5 equipped with our stage 3 bolt on kit I saw some extreme differences. No one would believe what the worst system here is if I were to release it, they'd also not believe what the best system is.. I was amazed when I dropped the hammer on the dyno.

The dyno graph would not upload, but the difference was 20HP of loss...

What I see very clearly is that we MUST develop our own aftermarket system for our engines and I am attaining the data to do this the best way possible all around...

More later on my new monthly podcast next week :-)

We really have to watch these results at they develop. What podcasts are you refering to?
As the contributor early in the thread described, it's easy to spend may thousands on a car that is only worth less than $20K, and gain nearly nothing. So, doing it right is critical. Thanks for the efforts, Jake.......

Bob

trieullionaire · 03-05-2009, 09:48 AM

I also have a 2.7 engine and recently called a local independent shop to find out what can be done to give my stock engine a bit more power. I had asked about the ECU reflash with softtronics and they had mentioned it would be a waste of money on the 2.7. Stating that the 2.7 spec had maximize most of it's potential direct from the factory. And that they could do the reflash but it wouldn't make much of a change. Anyone who winded up doing it on a 2.7 chime in on this? It is a pretty well respected shop in the area so I'm confident they know their stuff but it is always nice to hear from people who did the reflash.

What they had recommended instead was to change out the headers w/ deleting the first set of cats. Explaining that the first set of cats was likened to the metal coiled scrubbers for dishwashing except much more denser and essentially the engine has to work harder at the lower rev limits to get passed that dense wall. The tech says that would be ideally the first thing to swap out should he do an upgrade to gain some hp on a small budget. Btw, is it pretty hard to swap out the headers yourself? I was quoted roughly a little over $400 to get the headers replaced with their aftermarket headers and that they would reprogram the ECU to "Rest of World" for the first set of O2 sensors to not be detected.

After this he said, you can do the shorter pulley which would give you some noticeable gains although he did mentioned it was mainly for the water pump issues that a lot of track cars experience.

Anyhow, they do have a dyno...so if I should decide to go with the header upgrade with them, maybe we can get a before and after dyno on it. My biggest hesitation though, is really the deleting out the first set of cats whereas a ECU reflash is easily reversible and storage free. Especially if I ever wind up relocating to California...that would now mean more PITA bread.

ekam · 03-05-2009, 10:09 AM

Someone seriously need to sticky this.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/boxster-cayman/162730-fabspeed-986-performance-package-dyno-results.html

Adam · 03-05-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekam

Someone seriously need to sticky this.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/boxster-cayman/162730-fabspeed-986-performance-package-dyno-results.html

How bad do you want an extra 20 hp and 20ft/lb of TQ? Put $5,000 in their hands and it's yours.

jwade · 03-09-2009, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekam

Someone seriously need to sticky this.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/boxster-cayman/162730-fabspeed-986-performance-package-dyno-results.html

See my post below....Alot of cash for relatively mild gains.

Fabspeed rundown

Bobiam · 03-05-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trieullionaire

I also have a 2.7 engine and recently called a local independent shop to find out what can be done to give my stock engine a bit more power. I had asked about the ECU reflash with softtronics and they had mentioned it would be a waste of money on the 2.7. Stating that the 2.7 spec had maximize most of it's potential direct from the factory. And that they could do the reflash but it wouldn't make much of a change. Anyone who winded up doing it on a 2.7 chime in on this? It is a pretty well respected shop in the area so I'm confident they know their stuff but it is always nice to hear from people who did the reflash.

What they had recommended instead was to change out the headers w/ deleting the first set of cats. Explaining that the first set of cats was likened to the metal coiled scrubbers for dishwashing except much more denser and essentially the engine has to work harder at the lower rev limits to get passed that dense wall. The tech says that would be ideally the first thing to swap out should he do an upgrade to gain some hp on a small budget. Btw, is it pretty hard to swap out the headers yourself? I was quoted roughly a little over $400 to get the headers replaced with their aftermarket headers and that they would reprogram the ECU to "Rest of World" for the first set of O2 sensors to not be detected.

After this he said, you can do the shorter pulley which would give you some noticeable gains although he did mentioned it was mainly for the water pump issues that a lot of track cars experience.

Anyhow, they do have a dyno...so if I should decide to go with the header upgrade with them, maybe we can get a before and after dyno on it. My biggest hesitation though, is really the deleting out the first set of cats whereas a ECU reflash is easily reversible and storage free. Especially if I ever wind up relocating to California...that would now mean more PITA bread.

I attended a dyno test demo at a local respected speed shop hosting a PCA dinner. The 911 Turbo on the machine registered massive gains with reprogramming tricks. I asked the expert about my Boxster 2.7 and he said what was said above, that it would be a waste of money as it's pretty close to what can be expected from this engine. And exhaust changes will provide minimal gains at big $s. Might be better to take your time and shop around for a 1-2 yr newer Box S. For a reasonable price the S gives you bigger CCs, better sound, bigger brakes and a 6 spd, not to mention the badge.

edevlin · 03-05-2009, 10:34 AM

"I also have a 2.7 engine and recently called a local independent shop to find out what can be done to give my stock engine a bit more power. I had asked about the ECU reflash with softtronics and they had mentioned it would be a waste of money on the 2.7. Stating that the 2.7 spec had maximize most of it's potential direct from the factory. And that they could do the reflash but it wouldn't make much of a change. Anyone who winded up doing it on a 2.7 chime in on this?"

I got 16 hp or so on the dyno with just the Autothority 2.7 chip for the 2000 boxster. But also got quite a bit of more low end torque and drivibility, check out my link below for a couple of dynos (with exhaust and intake).

Ed

edevlin · 03-05-2009, 12:25 PM

I thought I would add, that most of the tuning of my 2.7L 2000 Boxster is based on TTP parts Link to TTP. My intake and headers are TTP and the Autothority chip I am using is based on the TTP ECU parameters. I find it interesting that TTP says that adding their chip, headers, intake and high flow muffler gives a 2.7L 2000 Boxster about 25hp, which is almost exactly what I see on the dyno. Like others have said, getting much of a HP increase out of our cars with bolt-on's and such is difficult and expensive.

Bobiam · 03-05-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edevlin

I thought I would add, that most of the tuning of my 2.7L 2000 Boxster is based on TTP parts Link to TTP. My intake and headers are TTP and the Autothority chip I am using is based on the TTP ECU parameters. I find it interesting that TTP says that adding their chip, headers, intake and high flow muffler gives a 2.7L 2000 Boxster about 25hp, which is almost exactly what I see on the dyno. Like others have said, getting much of a HP increase out of our cars with bolt-on's and such is difficult and expensive.

Can you estimate the price of the chipping only. That seems like the biggest bang for the buck.

edevlin · 03-05-2009, 01:07 PM

"Can you estimate the price of the chipping only. That seems like the biggest bang for the buck."

There are several folks making good-performing chips, the only one I have experience with is Autothority's chip which is very expensive these days. It has increased in price since I got mine almost 2 years ago. The current price is just under 2K Autothority Website.

As others have wisely said to neophytes like me when I first got my car, modding our cars is a slippery slope of expenses, its easy to get carried away, I know I did. Even so, it sure has been a lot of fun and interesting for me to learn about and mod my 2000 Boxster, my very first Porsche. I was driving today with a big grin on my face and continue to wonder at the performance of this "base" model Boxster (104 mph in third gear, sure got there fast, must be the cold weather....).

Ed

:dance:

Jake Raby · 05-06-2009, 12:50 PM

I haven't been online much lately.. Big developments here that you'll like are coming from it!

Every engine we create is fully upgraded.. There are lots of variables like the condition of your core, if you want us to install the engine, what stage of tuning you want, bolt ons and etc.. The best way to get a price is via a phone conversation, honestly..