Need Sway-bar options...
 

I just finished installing my new struts and a set of eibach springs...

Even with the Eibach springs the ride is a hell of alot better than my stock setup which had 122k miles on it. Now my wheels "walk" over bumps in the road rather than skip off the bumps... I can feel the stiffness of the Eibachs over larger bumps and when i turn the car is noticably flatter (less body roll) than when compaired to the old stock suspension.

However, I'd like there to be less body roll. I have a MY97 Boxster non-S. What options are there as far as Sway-Bars? Incase you ask, I'd like to track the car eventually, so i wouldnt mind a really stiff sway bar. Maybe Insite could help since i know he basically lives on an autocross track.

Thanks in advance!

So you lower the car and dont post pictures.....

CJ, my friend I think that is against the 986Forum Charter.

See what you can do to rectify this ASAP.

In other words....Post some pics!!!

To answer the question...there was a thread not to long ago about gt3 sway bars on the boxster. I dont recall what the final answer was. Hand R also makes a sway bar for the Boxster.

CJ,
Search is your friend.
http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15126

Thanks Gary, i think i will go with the GTS RS Sway bar... Is that the Sway bar from a 996 GT3RS???

LOL yeah i know im usually the first person to ask someone to post pictures and now look at me, posting a thread without pictures... Well i didnt take any after the install cause the boxster was full of dirt and water spots from the rain the same nite so ill take some today..

Thanks Topless i had searched and seen that thread but wasnt sure my needs would be identical as that person seeing as how i have Eibachs and they have a different setup, but i guess it doesnt matter too much so im going for it, GT3RS Swaybar for the front and H&R for the rear!

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ_Boxster I just finished installing my new struts and a set of eibach springs... Even with the Eibach springs the ride is a hell of alot better than my stock setup which had 122k miles on it. Now my wheels "walk" over bumps in the road rather than skip off the bumps... I can feel the stiffness of the Eibachs over larger bumps and when i turn the car is noticably flatter (less body roll) than when compaired to the old stock suspension. However, I'd like there to be less body roll. I have a MY97 Boxster non-S. What options are there as far as Sway-Bars? Incase you ask, I'd like to track the car eventually, so i wouldnt mind a really stiff sway bar. Maybe Insite could help since i know he basically lives on an autocross track. Thanks in advance!

I did some research before I went with the ROW M030 suspension. Somewhere I read that stiffer sway bars are a tradeoff. Up to a point, greater stiffness helps for flatter cornering. However, eventually you get to some point where they turn independent suspensions into the equivalent of rigid axles, essentially defeating the whole purpose of all the suspension engineering. The Boxster suspension seems to be a tradeoff between decent ride and handling (since Porsche is selling to a wide audience, and most people don't track their cars). You might want to ask on the Boxster racing board to see what some of the suspension experts there have to say - http://boxcar-racing.com/forum/index.php?board=1.0

Thanks for the into geoff.

Heres a picture i took this afternoon of the boxster, new struts and Eibachs installed.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...s/lowered1.jpg

Heres what the alignment looked like after installing the Eibachs and putting the suspension parts back together...
You can tell its way off but that is to be expected
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...ent-Before.jpg

Heres the suspension AFTER the alignment, this is as good as i could get it.... Damn toe is as close as i can get it... pretty much max'd it out in the 0.70 degree mark.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...ment-After.jpg

Alignment
 

Carlos - you might want to check with Steve Alarcon at Johnson's Alignment in Torrance. I used him to install my ROW M030 setup, and based on my experience and the comments of many others, he's one of the best in the business when it comes to Porsche suspensions. He might also have some suggestions on sway bar options that will work well with your Eibachs

thanks geoff but there isnt anything he can do about the Alignment. Since the car is lowered, the stock toe arms will no longer be short enough to get the length I desire. I'll have to talk to delubozparts about his adjustible toe arms. Those would fix it. As for my camber... I'll live with it cause its very close to the acceptible amount of camber, about 0.02 & 0.01 degrees off.

Btw, I used a $75,000 Electronic Alignment machine so its pretty accurate.

Dude forget about new sway bars.....wheels my man,you need new wheels.

Ha yeah i do, ill wait awhile though cause getting wheels isnt just "getting wheels" i have to also buy the rubber for them and thats alot of money to spend on something that not everyone will notice so im goign to wait till i see something timeless as far as the style of wheels.

As for my excessive Toe issue, im going to try to trim off some material from the ecentric washers to give me less + toe and more negative... I dont like the way the rear end reacts to bumps in the road as a result of the excessive + toe. The rear end will have a shimmy or wiggle when one wheel hits a bump...

for instance, the drivers side rear wheel hits a bump, the rear will sway to the left what feels to be about a half inch, then as the driver side wheel comes back to flat level road, the the rear-end will sway back about half an inch or less. and vis-versa if the Passenger rear wheel hits a bump.

So what ill do is trim some material off of the shortest end of the ecentric washers to get me closer to acceptible toe range.

However i can just shorten the length of my rear Track-arms and that would pull the away the + toe i have but damn, its a Bit** breaking loose those lock nuts on the Track-arm.

Ok well i re-aligned my 986 yesterday, it came out good, I ended up shortening the length of the Upper Control Arm (Track Arms) to pull the Hub further away from the Toe-arm, thus getting rid of that excessive positive toe and the rear-end shimmy i would get while driving over bumps...

I had trouble getting the front toe to match cause any adjustment i would make to the left side would change the right side alittle so i left it alone after 3 good tries.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...gnmentRedo.jpg

CJ -

for sways, if you're car is primarily a street car, get the M030 S front and M030 base rear. it's almost zero sacrifice on comfort and a HECK of a difference from a drivability standpoint.

for a street car, the GT3 bar is a bit stiff, as are the H&R. the Eibachs are nearly identical to the M030, but cost twice as much. the factory stuff yields the most bang for the buck.

I dont mind the extra stiffness just as long as it doesnt cause the front end to to bounce all over the place... Will the GT3RS do that?


EDIT: I take that first sentence back.... I want to feel like im in a GT Cup car... even in the streets, I know while the comfort levels will drop with that GT3RS sway bar but to me it'll pale in compairison to how great it feels to take a hard corner with relatively little body roll. :D

if that's the case, then get the GT3 front and H&R rear. there's no benefit to the GT3 RS bar; the GT3 bar can already adjust to far stiffer than your suspension can properly damp. you'll need adjustable drop links up front for the GT3 bar. i made a few extra sets; PM me if you need some.

All you're going to feel with a GT3 bar on the street is a bunch of understeer, at least with that little amount of front camber and those narrow stock wheels. Yes, the car will corner flatter, but you're sacrificing grip.

The track guys and autocrossers like the GT3 bar because it stabilizes the car in fast transitions and the understeer can be dialed out with driving style changes. On the street you're kind of stuck with it.

I would recommend the M030 bars for your car.

I do have the wider tire setup for the fronts right now. I forgot the size exactly but its been covered on the forum before, so i went with the less understeer tires... the camber setting i have right now is the least amount of negative camber i can get since its lowered so i have ALOT more negative camber adjustment that i can tap into if understeer becomes an issue on the track which im sure it will, easy adjustment for me really.

Well what i'll do is go for the GT3 bar and if i hate it, ill go with M030 S for front and sell the GT3 bar.

john's right that you lose a bit of grip unless you set the camber a tad more aggressively. this is because stiffer suspension doesn't compress as much. since the suspension gains camber w/ compression, it doesn't gain as much camber with stiff suspension as with soft, so static camber must be increased. with the H&R bar, though, there is virtually no understeer on full soft and a bit of oversteer on full stiff. this w/ 225 / 265 tire setup. boxster guys that ride w/ me on track are suprised at the total absence of understeer. front camber needs to be about -1.0 to make this work on a street tire.

Yeah i understand the logic of stiffer front suspension equals less grip without the right camber settings and tires due to the stiffer springs. Makes perfect sense what your saying about how softer springs will allow the Negative camber to increase the further the spring compresses and stiffer springs means i'd generate less negative camber in turns than i normally would.

Right now Im between 1/10th and 2/10th's away from -1.0 degrees of camber. I get a hell of alot more negative camber than that if needed cause my camber bolts on my boxster are pulled completely outward to the max right now.

Right now my tire sizes are 225 / 255 setup so it looks like your rear tires are wider than mine so oversteer might be more of an issue than understeer for me... what do you think?

There's basically no camber gain on a Boxster anyway - price we pay for having struts. Best solution for a track-only car is to go super stiff and add lots of camber. On any car with struts, ESPECIALLY lowered cars with a large roll couple and stock ball joint locations, it's especially true. Any body roll you get will cancel out any slight camber gain the suspension gives you.

CJ, you may have slightly wider front tires (225's I'm guessing) but unless you put some wider wheels AND tires up there you're not going to see much benefit - not enough to cancel out the stiffness of the GT3 bar.

Your car has barely more negative camber than my stock-height Boxster S maxed out (-.8 versus -.6 for my car). If I were going to run the GT3 bar at the track I would want at least a degree and a half of negative camber up front, 245-width tires on 8.5" wide wheels (minimum). On the street... I just don't think it's a great idea to run the GT3 bar by itself. But to each his own, you are correct that you can always sell it.

Yes i do have the 225/45's infront.
Makes sense what you are saying in regards to camber and i understand that currently i do not have that much negative camber at -0.9 and -0.8 HOWEVER if needed it (which you've told me, which i believe) can get it cause i have ALOT of adjustment for camber to get the proper negative camber needed for a track day. Yeah I will look into other tire and wheel options that you and InSite have mentioned. How wide are the front and rear wheels on a stock 17inch boxster like the ones i have pictured in my sig?

Fronts are 7" and rears are 8.5". The 7" fronts really aren't wide enough to properly support a 225 width tire.

Ahhh ok this is good stuff... Will the rims that insite has support a 225 properly?

Edit: oh nevermind, i thought his rims were the porsche rims that DJ used to have.

Don't know what wheels insite has.

If you're just driving the car on the street, I maintain that you will like the M030 bars better than the GT3 bar. I drove around with the GT3 bar and it while I noticed no detriment in ride quality, the increase in understeer was very annoying. Anything else you do to a street car to tame that is just a band-aid.

we get very little camber gain from compression, but fortunately at least we have about 8 degrees caster, which means we get lots of camber with steering angle.

the GT3 bar feels fairly neutral on the street for me at about -1.0 front camber. my experience on track is consistent w/ john's opinion; about -1.5 degrees up front. i don't run a 245, though. i bought carrera wheels, so my fronts are 7.5" wide w/ 225 tires. my rears are 10" wide w/ 265's.